Originally Posted by bishoph (Post 1259219)

What do you think of the following quote?

"Grace, indicates the unmerited favor or help of God. One writer defined grace as “God giving us what (blessings) we don’t deserve.” The Apostle Peter said to grow “in” grace, and the Greek word used there could be translated for/because of; in other words we grow because of grace. Grace is the fertilizer that causes us to grow as we learn of Christ and provides protection WHILE we grow. Grace is not a license to sin; rather, it makes sin detestable to us. Grace replaces a list of rules to be studied and obeyed, with a lifestyle that is lived. (Heb. 8:10, 10:16) Holiness is the result of grace, while self-righteousness/condemnation is the outcome of legalism. When we understand grace, it lifts up Jesus Christ and draws others to HIM, self-righteousness and condemnation pushes people away."

Originally Posted by bishoph (Post 1259219)

What do you think of the following quote?

"Grace, indicates the unmerited favor or help of God. One writer defined grace as “God giving us what (blessings) we don’t deserve.” The Apostle Peter said to grow “in” grace, and the Greek word used there could be translated for/because of; in other words we grow because of grace. Grace is the fertilizer that causes us to grow as we learn of Christ and provides protection WHILE we grow. Grace is not a license to sin; rather, it makes sin detestable to us. Grace replaces a list of rules to be studied and obeyed, with a lifestyle that is lived. (Heb. 8:10, 10:16) Holiness is the result of grace, while self-righteousness/condemnation is the outcome of legalism. When we understand grace, it lifts up Jesus Christ and draws others to HIM, self-righteousness and condemnation pushes people away."

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 1259252)

The analogy my pastor used this past Sunday about "works" was that of a husband and wife. He said that a man can tell his wife he loves her but if his actions are ignoring her, not pleasing her, not caring for her, not being concerned about her and her concerns, then he really does not love her.

Works naturally follow faith when it comes to giving your life to Christ. If you really love God you will seek to follow him which will result in works. Those works are not your salvation but a byproduct of your faith that did bring your salvation.

This concept gets misused by many legalists who then use it to justify their many extra biblical rules and regulations regarding dress code ,etc.

Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 1259252)

The analogy my pastor used this past Sunday about "works" was that of a husband and wife. He said that a man can tell his wife he loves her but if his actions are ignoring her, not pleasing her, not caring for her, not being concerned about her and her concerns, then he really does not love her.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1259300)

Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble. 1 Peter 5:5

Here seems to be a condition for grace so it must not mean his favor is "unmerited".



This sounds confusing. The word "charis" the Greek for what we call "unmerited favor" actually means FAVOR without the "unmerited" part.

We grow in grace because as Gods FAVOR comes to us in the form of answered prayers, leadings of the Spirit, or other manifestations of his personal reality our faith grows.

Grace provides PROTECTION from what? Gods displeasure against sin?
It would be interesting to know what is meant by this.

1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound ? 2 God forbid . How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein ? Romans 6:1-2

Paul teaches from the time we are baptized into Christ we are dead to sin. We cannot grow as a Christian while there is sin in our lives.

1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, 2 As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby : 3 If so be ye have tasted that the Lord is gracious. 1 Peter 2:1-3

We grow when we lay aside sin not while we continue in it.



Again confususion. Grace replaces WHAT LIST OF RULES? It actually replaces the law of Moses. It is not opposed to the commandments of Christ nor the need to know and study them. One might get the impression Christs commandments need to be taught or studied.

Actually once one is baptized the next step is to teach ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo , I am with you alway , even unto the end of the world. Matt. 28:19-20



We would really need an understanding of what the writer means by self righteousness/condemnation and legalism. In todays Church world those terms are often used to describe practically anyone who is trying to live and teach Christs commands.

The preaching of grace does draw people to Christ when understood as "favor". Meaning Christ would give blessing to his children.

And who is it that is preaching self righteousness today? Condemnation? How does the writer define it? Is he saying the many teachings of scripture concerning the judgment of God have no meaning?

While I understand grace is a vast topic and cannot be fully understood by a few paragraphs I find this teaching to incomplete in itself to school a young convert with.

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1259372)

Those who demand a legalistic form of "perfection" fail to realize that it often took them years and years to get to where they are in sanctification. Thus... according to their own logic... they were unsaved during all that time.

Sanctification is the process of growing more Christlike through the power of the Holy Ghost... under the protection of and assurance of grace.

Originally Posted by Truthseeker (Post 1259492)

One thing for sure is that the law cant bring perfection.

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1259475)

What words is the legalist using that makes him so false? What does he say that he should not be saying in the new age Christian circles to be counted as a mature Christian?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1259475)

Who are those who demand a "legalistic form of perfection"?

Is that the same thing as just quoting the things Jesus said? The things the apostles said? If it is would that not be counting Christ and the apostles as "legalists"?

What words is the legalist using that makes him so false? What does he say that he should not be saying in the new age Christian circles to be counted as a mature Christian?

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1259711)

Im not defending legalism. What Im doing is trying to get an answer to what it means to the person who started the thread.