For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

So, we're newbies. We have come to absolutely LOVE our UPCI Church, it's been over 3months, and although we have found some common issues noted by many... no Church is perfect, but this is the closest we've ever known!


So why the battle of comments I see against the UPC?

If you have another org, what is it and what makes it so different?

Yes Houston, I even would like your reply ;)

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

I had to make sure you were not using the [ you ] function.

I am not apostolic. I do not endorse the UPCI or any other organization.

I am glad that you are pleased with your decision to attend a UPC. I do not believe that I could ever return. The church where I started has become very cultic. The last 2 UPC's that I attended were great. I couldn't return due to doctrinal reasons.

At the moment I do not attend church because of my work schedule. I am ok with that for now, though I do miss fellowship with christians.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

I am not sure why I was singled out.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Cheers, it was only based on threads I've read, and very short slightly discriminatory comments you've left. So I thought in mentioning you, I might get more than a one-line/negative response. :) peace

"The church where I started has become very cultic."
^^^ How's that? How's that bad?

The last 2 UPC's that I attended were great. I couldn't return due to doctrinal reasons.
^^^ The finer details or the major stands?

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Independent although I have nothing against organizations. it just happens my church is not part of one. Not UPC because I am a neo pentecostal or better yet prefer Christian to any other label.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

First of all although there are other Oneness organizations the UPCI is the biggest so naturally the biggest one is the favorite target.

Every church has its own issues and problems, so there is not perfect alternative to the UPCI

Of course everyone roots for their team. but many would disagree with your statement "this is the closest we've ever known" for you probably only know the UPCI, if you visited other churches then you would get a different view. You would see that others believe their church is the closest they've ever known.

The comments against the UPC is mostly of their own fault, they have elevated some of their own cultural teachings on the par to the Scriptures, just like the Pharisees did at the time of Jesus and that is the main problem.

The majority of the people in this forum are not against the Acts 2:38 message or the oneness message, but they are against the extra man-made rules that the UPCI has added to the gospel, those are the points of contention.

I was raised in the UPC and graduated from a UPC bible school. I now attend an independent church. I don't see myself ever returning to a UPC type church. I am most comfortable with Apostolic Pentecostal doctrine from the PCI perspective. That being said, I now accept the salvation of other Christians who may have a difference of opinion of baptismal formula and view of the godhead.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Independent, non-denominational.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Roman Catholic (strong family ties) and Church of God in Christ ( in the US when we can find one in our area)~
Very tired of the UPC/Apostolic judgmental dress standards and the way mixed families are perceived.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

:thumbsup

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

:thumbsup

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Thanks for all the input everyone :)

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Born and raised in the UPC. Currently involved with an Independent Apostolic church. My only contention with the UPC is this: I'm not a fan of most district boards; which is ironic, because DBs are comprised of pastors and ministers from the state or nearby area. I believe the local church should be autonomous, not regulated by a district board or national headquarters. I understand you can keep the church unaffiliated from the organization, but that does not solve everything. Having a church which is unaffiliated can still cause issues with the district board. I've seen too often a jealous DB member stir up strife against a pastor whose ministry is thriving, only to cause division and schisms.

The local church and its pastor and church board know best how to reach their city. The UPC would be better holding guidelines for licensed ministers and pastors, along with a framework of doctrinal beliefs, but allowing the pastors and local church to do what they need to do to impact their cities.

Unfortunately, sometimes the district boards are more a hindrance than a help.

Beyond that, I have many friends in the UPC; I love visiting UPC churches and worshiping with them. I love that the UPC preaches repentance, baptism in Jesus Name and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. I love that UPC churches aren't afraid of the label of "emotionalism" because of their exuberance in worship. I love that, in most UPC churches, you can still hear messages against sin; whereas most non-denom, "charismatic" (for lack of a better word) churches rarely do.

JMO :2cents

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

AARP.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Not sure why I wasn't. :heeheehee

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Why would a person need a preacher to set the rules laid out and be kept in check? isn't that what parents are there for, if parents needs the preacher to do that then the parents have failed in their mission in raising their children.

When I was in the Military I learned a valuable lesson, the drill sergeant can force you to be disciplined but it is only outward disciple, likewise a preacher can cajole people into discipline, however the moment the preacher is not there the discipline disappears, real discipline is internal.

The only real discipline is self-discipline. The preacher is not going to be there when they are walking by a bar, or passing thru the liquor store.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Geez

Romans 10:14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?


1 Cor 11:1-2
1Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.
2Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you.


Eph 4:11-12
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

2 Tim 3:16-17
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


Yea I say unto thee! Paul was just a mean jerk preacher telling people what to do!

1 Cor 6:18-20
18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


good grief.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

:heeheehee

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

That was uncalled for, Ferd.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

If you do not see how a church turning into a cult is a bad thing... Keep drinking the Kool Aid...

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Churches certainly can turn into a cult. I know of one first hand. Posted about it on FCF before the offending pastor died. I lived right next door to the perp. (Yea I called him a Perp).



Sad story lots of good folk got seriously hurt.


It happens and more people ought to stand up to idoits when they act like idiots.

Pastors while not Lords over Gods herritage, are certainly placed as Angles by God to protect the flock. Sometimes that includes using scripture for reproof in righteousness.


if my comments were uncalled for, then the bible is uncalled for because all I did was quote scripture.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Paul is giving general teaching to the church, that applies across the board to all members.

The ministers job is to guide the church.
the parents job is to guide their children.
different job assignments.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

My father was involved in a standoff & is no longer around, so the parent thing is out, grandparents all too their lives. I dont want/expect the pastor to call me out on issues, but to teach us good discipline & discipline in separation of the world. I/we need this

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

yes, Jim Jones preached Apostolic Socialism. but I have had the pleasure to know several "cults" & about all were very blessed people.

"cult" does not always= not Christian.

so how was your cultic & why was this a bad thing?

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

No org. The NT seems pretty clear to me that denominational division in the church is not a good thing. Non-denominational only for me!

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Pretty much all the Churches I know of are what the Apostles would consider "cults". If we vary at any point to the teaching of Christ we are being "cultic" to that degree.

I got the truth of Oneness and Acts 2:38 from UPC people. That was so amazing! Although it was in 1979 or 1980 Im still thrilled about it.

Having visited a UPC Church back in those days and recently even attempted to attend one I cannot bear so much unscriptural teaching. The small things of course like no beards and sin for women to trim but even foundationally they are usually pre trib, immortal soul,making it hard to fellowship with them at several levels.

Of course all the Oneness orgs are pretty much the same.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

blather. Paul clearly takes some folk to the woodshed in the epistles.

He does it in love and he gives no excuse to goof balls posing as pastors who want to overplay their hand and go beyond scripture to control every facit of peoples lives.

but there is a clear charge to Pastors to use scripture to deal with sin in a straight forward manner.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Scripture is uncalled for, Houston? This attitude is probably what's wrong with the 'church' today...

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Ferd over-reacted in his response to FZ.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Please forgive me for suggesting that a pastor has a role to play in the lives of the saints.... as it relates to correction of error/sin...

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Although I spent most of my life in the United Pentecostal Church International I am not affiliated with any denomination. At this point in my life joining another organization is almost unthinkable. In fact, my experiences within the UPCI seared my heart to the point where I no longer have a desire to self-identify as Apostolic or Pentecostal.

I find the line of questioning in this thread interesting. Why do you want to know our affiliation?

Increasingly, Americans refuse to identify with any denomination. I empathize with their unwillingness.

The UPCI is a cult. Many posters will balk at that statement but it's true. The posters who object to that label will tout their freedoms and the manner in which their pastor differs from the stated positions of the organization. Unfortunately they do not realize that if their pastor does disagree with the bylaws of the organization he makes himself a liar by signing oaths to the contrary.

There are two choices, disagree and live a lie or come into full compliance. Either way the end result is that the movement is monolithic. Spiritual abuse is a rampant hallmark of its past and present.

I am thankful for the circumstances which led me to leave the movement. Life is much more peaceful, joyful and meaningful.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Well stated. Bless you...

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Buncha blather

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

What I am hearing you say is that the UPCI is controlling and you desire and appreciate that as it fills a need in your life and helps you to accomplish things that you believe you are failing at on your own. I think that is reasonable and that perhaps many of us at one time or another may have used the standards of the UPCI for that whether consciously or not.

We have made every attempt to become more God-reliant and less self reliant or church reliant. That is now what is working for us but we've come through many things on our way here.

Stay prayerful and press on where God leads you. Never sear your conscience to stay with ANY group or org. and you should be fine.

For us personally, home-church seem to be working really well right now but we are always open to God's leading.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Well stated. Bless you...

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Dear Ferd anything that does not conform to your ideas is a buncha blather, only your words are full of wisdom, allow me to bow down in humility before you. I am overpowered by your great and magnificent wise counsel rather than the buncha blather from everyone else. :heeheehee

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

:thumbsup

Good grief.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

Thank you for your detailed responses.

Re: For those not for the UPCI, what org and why?
 

I can see a single Church being a cult, but not that large of an org as the UPC.


but again I ask.... what is so wrong with a given cult? Yes... sometimes it can be a bad thing, and we've all been subject to only negative propaganda in the media, no list needed...

but again, what's so wrong a a cult in of itself being a cult...

take a single Church that would agreeably be a cult. Yes, they might have rules & standards that seem crazy, they might require certain things from you.... but... if they are preaching the true gospel, and it works for some that otherwise would not have found such truth... does the smaller details make it a bad thing simply because it's a bad thing for you? Lets not forget that for it to work, these bad things to you must be good things to others.

In the end, who are we to judge?

* I am speaking in general, yes we can all label & list known cults and their downfalls, but I'm simply stating that always saying any cult must be a bad thing is about the same as racism.... only in religion


When taking the definition of a cult...
The word cult in current popular usage is a pejorative term for a new religious movement[1] or other group whose beliefs or practices are considered abnormal or bizarre by the larger society.[2]
^^^ Ok, sure the UPC would be a cult...

But then this definition also taken....
In the 1930s cults became the object of sociological study in the context of the study of religious behavior.[5] They have been criticized by mainstream Christians for their unorthodox beliefs.
^^^ SO they are a bad thing based on "mainstream Christians" HA, the way I see it, mainstream Christians are "the bad thing"! I'll take my cult :)