I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

First of all, if you happen to know my true identity, I ask that you please not blow my cover.

I must admit that I write you today with a very heavy heart. Something happened at church last night that has pretty much convinced me that it is time for me to find another church, and possibly resign from the UPC all together.

Let me give you some background before I get into that.

In January 2009 a prophecy went forth in the church I had been attending for 16 years that severe economic trials were coming to some people in our church . Part of the prophecy said that there was a specific person who was going to be defrauded out of thousands of dollars, and that it was going to be a hard pill to swallow, but that they’d have to just give it to God and accept it. The prophecy went on to say that God wanted us to be of good courage and fear not. Somehow in my heart I knew right then and there I was the one who was going to be defrauded, but that God was preparing me for the coming storm. In May of that year, the storm hit. I lived strictly on commission from the company I was involved with. For about 4 years I was making a modest but decent income of between 50 and 56 thousand dollars a year. In addition, I was substitute teaching about 60 hours a month.

That summer I made only a thousand dollars, and of course there was no teaching income because school was out for the Summer. My wife was pregnant with our second child. I began to apply for work because I had this sense that my income was going to soon completely vanish. I applied for work all over our county, but to no avail. Everything is done online now and nobody was even acknowledging they were viewing my resume. Of course this was during severe economic times nationally and businesses were swamped with applicants. My second child was about to be born, the county had stopped using sub teachers due to cutbacks, and I could not find a job. So I put my house for sale in the Fall of 2009.

It was about this time that my mom began to complain of a severe lack of energy. The real red flag came when one day she could not even get out of the bath tub. She checked herself into the hospital on November 22, 2009 and did not leave there until her death on February 2, 2010. Tests showed that she had developed a very rare autoimmune disorder. The prophesied storm was taking its toll.

As a result of my mom’s death, we inherited her house which was a 1980 model , double wide mobile home on 5 acres of land, about 90 minutes from where we were living. This was a silver lining to the tragedy of her death. We would be living mortgage/rent free. However, the place had fallen into some disrepair and it took allot of the small amount of money we earned from the sale of our house to make it livable again. But the good news was our income seemed to be ticking back up. I was making a couple of thousand dollars a month consistently, as well as substitute teaching. We still were not making as much as we had previously, but with no mortgage and a paid for car, we were hopeful that we’d be able to start saving some money.

At that time we made a personal commitment to start tithing off of the gross of our business income. Up until that point we had been incorporated and paid tithes off of the salary we paid ourselves from our business income. We started doing this as soon as we started attending our current church in June of 2010 and continued doing so until the end of 2011. We did not tell anyone we were doing this.

In December of 2011 another tragedy hit us. A couple of guys with the company we were with betrayed us secretly by working for a competitor company. They managed to steal away a considerable amount of the top money earners in my direct lineage, thus completely wiping out my income. The rest of the prophecy of January 2009 had come to pass. We were now totally dependent on my substitute teaching income. It was at this time that our pastor announced that our church was in a major financial crisis and that unless the members gave extra towards the building fund, there could be major consequences. Knowing he was about to notice a major drop in my giving (I ended up making only nine thousand dollars in 2012) I told him about our dilemma. I stressed to him that I was not looking for financial help, but that we did not want him to think we were bailing on him during his and the church’s difficult time. It was then that we divulged to him that we had been tithing on the gross of our business income. To his credit, our pastor had not taken a salary for about 3 months because of the church's financial problems

2012 was a difficult year. I had gotten allot of sub teaching work that spring semester, but I was unable to find a summer job. I mean there was NOTHING. I had to literally cash in gold and silver coins and sell my old boat just to survive. Even after school started that Fall, subbing was hit and miss. The search for a second part time job search continued, but nothing materialized. I couldn’t even land a job bagging groceries. Since the time we started attending our new church in June of 2010, we had been involved in Spanish ministry. Every Sunday we would attend the AM service, the Sunday afternoon Spanish service, and the PM service. For two solid years we did not even go home on Sundays. We brought our own lunch and took naps in the Sunday School rooms. I only mention that to stress that we were involved.

Finally, in November of 2012 I landed a part time job at Walgreens working 20 hours a week for 8 dollars an hour, with a Bach's degree. The manager had initially told me they were not hiring. But 15 minutes after I talked to her, an employee turned in their 2 weeks notice. So she decided to check out my online application, and to her delight it, and to my surprise, my application was flagged “highly recommended”. She would never have known that had she not manually looked up the application. This made me wonder how many more of my applications had been flagged “highly recommended” at the dozens of other places I had applied. But with thousands of applications flooding their inboxes, managers simply cannot view them all. If you don’t know someone at the place your applying, chances are you will not get a job there. I worked for one company from 1988 to 1999, and another company from 1999 to 2008 (besides my at home income). In both cases, I knew someone who worked there who put in a good word for me.

From November 2012 to April 2013, I worked 7 days a week between my two part time jobs. I was only able to make it to church one service a week. My participation in ministry came to a halt. I literally had 2 days off during that 5 month period. We have only one car, and for those 5 months the only time my wife left the house was when we went to church.

It was at that time I began to notice a change in my pastor's attitude. He made comments to me like “Brother, I know I do not need to remind you of the importance of church attendance”. Or from the pulpit he’d say things like, “If you have a job that makes you miss church, then you are out of God’s will.” But then one day he made this remark from the pulpit, “If someone in this church is struggling financially, all I have to do is check their tithing record to know why.” Both my wife and I thought for sure we had misunderstood him, so we basically put the comment out of our minds.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray. (cont.)
 

In the Spring of 2012 I filled out my paperwork to be a missionary to Mexico. Soon after that, a major split occurred within the UPC of Mexico and headquarters decided to call all missionaries home. My pastor was actually very supportive of our desire to go on the mission field and encouraged us to go in spite of the UPC’s decision. He was sure that everything would be resolved soon. However, after several months nothing had been resolved in Mexico and headquarters began to assign the missionaries from Mexico to other countries. If God really wanted me in Mexico, it would not be with the UPC.

After much consideration, my sisters and I decided to sell the property where I was living, which we all three jointly owned. Incredibly, we found a buyer without even having to list it! My uncle, whose property bordered mine, agreed to buy it for 100,000 dollars, which was higher than the appraised price. He was going to put 30% down and finance the rest. It seemed like a miracle was in the making. We’d have money to make the move to Mexico without having to do allot of fundraising first.

My brother-in-law in Mexico told us he would actually GIVE us a house if we moved there!! Even my pastor thought God was doing a miracle. So in April of this year I quit my job at Walgreens so I’d have time to finish cosmetic repairs on the house before I handed the keys to my Uncle. Since we expected the closing to be soon, and because we were planning to go to Mexico for the Summer, I did not start looking for a Summer job.

Then everything came crashing down. For one reason or another, the my uncle’s financing fell through. We would not have that financial cushion we were expecting. Thankfully some saints helped us get to Mexico anyway, but once we got there, as I posted previously, all hell broke loose against our finances. If it had not been for people obeying God, we literally would not have been able to return home. Several saints of God helped us financially.

Keep in mind I intentionally did not share our plight with anyone from our church other than our pastor. With our church’s weakened financial state, I did not want any funds diverted from there towards us. our pastor expressed his concern and was even nice enough to pay my ministerial dues for the Summer quarter (93 dollars). He was concerned that my license might lapse.


In the few days we’ve been back from Mexico, our pastor has been noticeably cold towards us. He did not even welcome us back from the pulpit. Last night he preached, which on “greed”. The first part of his message was great as he railed against prosperity preachers. But then he made reference to another type of greed, “robbing God of tithes and offerings”. He made it clear that those who were weak in this area were just plain greedy. Of course he made reference to Malachi’s reference to “robbing God” and how that he “didn’t like thieves , nor did he want to worship with them”.

While I choose to practice tithing, I have never felt it is appropriate to use God’s commands to Israel as an obligatory system of giving for the new testament church. I see it as a principle of putting God first, but I don’t have the right to condemn people if they feel God is leading them another way. The epistles and Acts do mention giving, but there is no hint that the tithing system mentioned in Malachi was carried over to the new testament church, and it is especially troubling to me when pastors tell struggling people that they are “cursed”. The early church would not have told people things like “If you have to choose between paying your light bill or paying your tithes, pay your tithes and trust God.” The early church would have paid that persons power bill! The bible says none lacked because of the generous attitude and love for each other. Certainly there are times God requires us to step out on faith and give sacrificially, but that is different from some preacher bringing you under condemnation.

Our pastor then repeated the same statement he made several months back,

“”

My wife and I knew then that we had not misunderstood him those few months previously. He then went on to say,

I thought to myself, I can take you to the place in the Law where certain people were exempt from tithing at all!! Why are we cherry picking which verses we want to beat up people with??


He made it clear that financial difficulties are connected to “greed”. On the way home my wife said, “well, now we know what the pastor thinks of us.” Sadly, she is right. There is no doubt in my mind this message was partly aimed at us. The irony is, he knows our situation, and he knows we were tithing on the gross income of our business. Yet, financial trials still befell us. I had even told him about the prophecy that came forth in 2009 at our former church.

I have fought with everything in me not to become totally depressed these last three years. I struggle not to feel like a total failure. My pastor is too late to tell me that God is cursing me, the Devil already told me that one. God knows my heart. He knows I love to give. He knows I help people whenever I can. This message was a slap in the face and totally out of line.

I will be leaving that church. I just need wisdom on how to go about it. I do not want to have an argument with him, nor do I intend on discussing this with anyone in the church. I just want to leave and fade from their memories. Yet I know that when I do leave, he will talk about me to people when I’m not there to defend myself. On top of everything else, he the Florida District Superintendent. I will be blacklisted in this district and possibly beyond. The two years of staying all day every Sunday meant nothing. The faithful giving meant nothing. I’m hurt and disgusted. My family does not deserve this. It’s like some kind of weird nightmare. We are not trouble makers, but we will be treated as such. I know that trying to reason with him in private will be in vain. He has made up his mind.

please pray for us. Thank you.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

If you can relocate to Southern Cal, we'd love to have you (and lots of Spanish speaking Mexicans). I'll pray for you brother

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray. (cont.)
 

I say this with sincerity and not harsh. You have your head wrapped around all the external trimmings. Aside from that.....someone with a lot more credentials than me on here will chime in for sure.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

I will be praying for you and your family. I hope you guys will find a place and will find peace in the midst of your storm.
God bless you

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray. (cont.)
 

Thank you for commenting, but would you mind clarifying your statement a bit?

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

Very sorry to read about your trials. I will pray for you.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

Sounds like a good plan to leave there. When I Pastored our first priority was to make sure the saints needs were taken care of. What that usually meant was that I would return the offerings to those in need.

I worked a job and the Lord met my needs. I was blessed to me able to help others. Every now and then if the saints were taken care of and we had Christian literature for witnessing I would take some of the offering for myself. In 5 and a half years I asked for an offering ONE TIME.

That was because we started renting a building and could not afford it really. The Lord sent in an old friend that night and his offering paid for our behind utility bill. Soon after we went back to meeting in the home.

It always grieves me when Preachers get so carnal all they can preach on is money. I say let them get a job and work with their own hands that they have need of nothing as Paul instructed the elders at Ephesus.

So sorry to here friend and PLEASE be careful that the enemy does not get a foothold called "bitterness". This causes our heavenly vision of Christ to become clouded. At times it can get pretty hard along the way. It is our hope of eternal life that is our stay.

I have walked down some hard roads too. Yet many others have had it far worse than me. But Christ continues to reveal himself to me and that has been worth it all.

Be strong in the Lord and the power of his might!

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

I had a similar experience. My wife and I couldn't attend morning prayer services when I was in the minister's team. We only had one vehicle. I had to get our son to the babysitter's, my wife to work, and then me to work... all before 8AM. The pastor's wife told my wife that "doors might open" if we came to morning prayer. When my wife explained why we couldn't, his wife publically rebuked my wife and I saying we had a "spirit of rebellion". The sad thing is, the pastor had given us permission to not attend because we took the cirucmstance to him. When I appealed to him to help correct her and explain to her that we had already approached him and gotten permission not to attend... he backed her up! It shattered my wife. We had been faithful members for nearly 10 years. Rumors began to swarm about us. Then she began hanging out with her friends at work. Soon after she began to change. I then decided that we should change churches and we did. However, she continued to change and then voiced to me that she didn't want to attend church anymore and she quit. I was so devestated because I had a passion for ministry and wanted to press in and fulfill the calling God gave us. She began to become real worldly in dress, cut and styled her hair, everything. They church we attended began looking down on me, not speaking to me, inviting me along outings, or fellowshipping me. It was like everything was falling apart and nobody was even trying to be there for me. I was totally alone. In absolute defeat and depression... I quit attending also. Several months later I found out that my wife was having an affair with one of the guys she began hanging out with when rolling with her work friends. She told me she wanted a divorce and everything fell apart. I began to spiral out of control. I would come here to Apostolic friends to get my mind off of everything and talk about the LORD. It was my only oasis. She left me and now it's been over four years. I began dating a young lady who was Baptist. Took her to the church I had left and she was baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost... but they were still cold to me. So we left. I began to get more involved in "house churching" (aka Simple Church). I'm slowly putting my life back together. I'm not wanting to rush into a second marriage, but it is nice to have a woman in my life. I don't know why things happened the way they did but this is my reality. I can only trust that God has a plan.

Hey, nurture your marriage and your home. Don't let any of this come between you. You have your family; and in the end... that is what truly matters. God has a plan for you too.

I'll be praying for you. Please say a prayer for me. May God bless and keep you and yours as you navigate these turbulent waters of destiny.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

Your pastor is bipolar or what?

When doors opened it was a miracle. When things collapsed he let his fangs show. Maybe the pastor wants your money so he doesn't have to struggle financially.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

I will pray that you find the right church. And your needs will be met Spiritually and financially. Seems a great chore to find the right church anymore.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray.
 

I'm so sorry for all the pain and hurt you are going thru.

There are so many who are suffering thru the pain of divorce, loss of a loved one, sickness, financial stress, addictions, and many other things, and I mean people who attend our churches.

In the last 5 years I have also suffered many things.

Through all this I am determined in my heart not to let any of it hinder my relationship with God. My former Pastor, who recently passed away said this to me not long before he died: "Don't follow a man, follow God."

Now I believe that God works through his church. But his church is made up of fallible people who make mistakes. Take your eyes off of people and focus on God. Stay in the boat and weather the storm keeping your eyes on Jesus.

Pray and fast for direction on where God wants you, and if he wants you to stay where you are . . . let Him fight your battles for you while you stand still.

I'm praying for you.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Just remember, your OWN family comes WAY before any local church congregation and pastor. They are not really in the same league.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Think about having to buy health insurance here shortly. More financial stress!

There is no command to build or have a building. Why have one if the body can't afford it? You can hardly hear a sermon without money being mentioned.

Originalist you're not going to be welcomed unless you bring the cash. Face it.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Be set free..I left the IC system 3 years ago..best decision I ever done..amazing what you see when your not in the box

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Brother I and my wife have been praying for you and will keep praying for you. Come to Jacksonville we won't go to Church together but we can meet after for coffee.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

No, come to So Cal :-)

Start a spanish church (one just started here using our building. The pastor is from back east)

I've been there. Don't give up on God you'll find Him to be faithful. God is not UPC.

Amen. Amen. Amen. This is the truth.

Wow with all these recruiting efforts perhaps I should say come to Texas. :)

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray. (cont.)
 

Sorry, I made the comment on the fly and probably could have stated it different. On the quick read it seems you are lumping too much over a period of time into what the real issue is. Some of what has occurred are very unfortunate events but not out of the ordinary of what most of us experience.

Hope that clarifies a bit and my prayers for your situation with the current church and pastor.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

:thumbsup

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Don't leave your current church.

Don't read into your Pastor's statements.

Confront him in humility, after you pray, ask him direct questions, get direct answers, and then you will know for sure what your next steps should be.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Sorry this happened to you. You and your wife deserve better. So, if the church has financial problems, according to your pastor, maybe he wasn't paying his tithes! What is good for the goose is good for the gander! Anyway, I think leaving would be the healthy choice emotionally. Godspeed to you.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

I hate to hear you are going through this. I could count on less than one finger the number of times I have agreed with anything Jermyn posts but in his post on this thread the one thing he said I agree with 100% is that you should go directly to your pastor to discuss this matter to confirm if your suspicions are true that it is you he is constantly referring to in his diatribes about tithe paying. I am 94.9% sure your suspicions are correct but as a matter of principle you should be sure.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Generally speaking, if someone is too much of a coward that they say subtle digs to you to get you to comply with their wishes, they will not admit it if you confront them. So, I think they should confront if they are emotionally prepared/feel they need to. Otherwise, I would just leave.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Saying a prayer for you brother! Your family is you top priority...PERIOD! I understand it takes money and time to reach people, and yes, to have a building to worship in - that said, I have been vocal throughout the years concerning the "business" of church.

More and more I see relationship with Jesus being replaced by religious rituals and tradition and being peddled as "old paths" - it is sad. While we all are responsible in this relationship to Christ, and while there are certain aspects ans actions we must follow - certainly, it can be overstated at times and the list of "to do's" can increasingly get longer and longer until you begin to wonder if you will ever be enough, do enough, pray enough etc. - when this happens - it is religion.

My heart goes out to you because it seems all that you have done has come from a sincere heart, tender toward people and God. The harsh reality is that sometimes we can be programmed and controlled to a point of shedding our individuality and right to make grown -up choices in the best interest of ourselves and families - and believe that doing so is certainly the will of God. While it may be, it may not be as well.

My wife and I have also been in the trial of our lives the last six years. Ours has been mostly a spiritual battle, so at least on some level I can relate. I have no issue with the advice of others to go to the Pastor and properly ask the questions and address the issues - that said, I would be surprised if you get the answers you believe to be correct.

God did not give you the spirit of fear - while I would suggest handling this Biblically and talking with him - understand that in the end, you have to make the choice for you and your family. If you can stay peaceably, then stay, even in spite of differences.

during my struggle, I have missed some services - I have been sat down - I know what it feels like to feel you need to perform for approval and opportunities to share what God has given you. I play music, and am licensed, if I go away with my family for a weekend - you can bet the following Sunday, I am not asked on the platform to play. No words spoken, but a silent rebuke is just as loud as a verbal one, believe me.

I have noticed when I do all that is expected, dress the part, attend, give and all in betweens, I am included - if I hiccup, boom, it changes. It is sad, and speaks nothing of relationship, but screams religion loud and clear.

In spite of what I may disagree with, I believe the message and choose to stay. If he comes to me and becomes unreasonable and chooses to handle things in a demanding and controlling way and takes a hard fast stand - well then I will have to do more seeking and praying for the next decision - until then, I will do what I can to live peaceably in my current situation.

Not sure if this helps at all - but I appreciate your transparency.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

I agree you should meet and talk with your Pastor. From personal experience, I would recommend NOT meeting the Pastor in his office at the church. Meet in a public or semi-public setting. The reason why is because I would also recommend either using a phone app or digital recorder to record the conversation. Florida law requires both parties consent to audio recording; however, there is an exception. If you both are in an area with no reasonable expectation of privacy (ie someone could overhear the conversation), you may record without consent.

If you do not want to go that route, I would then suggest taking someone with you - someone who you aren't necessarily close with and who could be a good witness.

If things are as bad as written, you will need some kind of witness in case things go badly during the meeting, or he tries to blacklist you.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

I know I'm an outsider here...

But regardless of whether or not the pastor was subtly referring to your situation in his comments, I think it's clear that his assertion that "those who go through financial troubles must not be paying tithes or giving enough" is an insult to your faithfulness. At worst, his comments are unBiblical. At best, he just wasn't thinking through it thoroughly and his comments are careless and insensitive.

It rains on the just and unjust. I don't know why these situations have piled on you over the years - and I'm sure "why" is a question you've asked more times than you can count. But through this, understand that God's faithfulness and mercy is not dependent on how great our external blessings may appear. And your relationship with Him is not dependent on what a misguided man interprets as His will. Saying a prayer for you now that God will lead you into the path where your family will find peace and a deeper relationship with Him, despite (or maybe even through) everything that has happened.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Wow. This hits so close to home, it's almost like looking in a mirror.

Months back, we had a "special service" announced just days beforehand...when our family had already made plans months ago to another (non-church) commitment. And then comments are made over the platform that if you "don't change your plans to attend this special service" (that we just announced, three days in advance) "you must not love children." What message is that sending to my children to raise them in this type of atmosphere where comments like undermine the spiritual authority we should have in our home? Not wanting to hi-jak this thread, but I just had to point out that it's a common theme, and others are struggling with very similar issues and decisions.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Real,

I understand...trust me! I have made my mind up that as long as my morals, integrity, and character are in tact, and that I am in the Word and prayer about myself and home that I will be silent and confident about the direction I take my family.

I will only engage if I am engaged. Believe me, there is a part of me that would love to be vocal, but knowing that I would be in the wrong spirit and attitude prevents me from doing such.

I am DONE with performanced based religion and relationships in Church. If I am good enough, I am fellowshipped, if not ignored - so ignorant.

It does hurt knowing I bring alot to the table but am uninvited to dinner! I can live with it, knowing that my family means more to me then the structure - I can play unto the Lord in my home - I don't have to have a platform to do so.

In my mind - if you or I is weak - or even percieved to be weak - fine - lift one another up - bear one anothers burden - this kick them when they are down is NOT spiritual and in fact is carnal.

One quote that I have written down at my desk at work is: "If you can't teach the why, then don't preach the do"

it reminds me that I am not as smart and versed as I sometimes think I am - it also reminds me that many people who have influence in my life may also not be as smart as I think they are..

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

If your account of your pastor's way of preaching is accurate I would have been gone a long time ago strictly based on that!

My whole point about you having a conversation with him is that you hung in there for years with this situation evolving to the point you are now convinced he is talking about you re tithing so why not clear the air about it before you leave?

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Wow, what a tremendous thing to endure! Reminds me of my own testimony in many ways. The difficulty of a trial is one thing but to be misunderstood is salt in the wound. I made a geographical move while in a spiritual valley, man that turned out bad! After 6 months, I moved back home. Good move. Over a year ago I strongly considered a move again because my sense of tradition was violated, felt very misunderstood in my financial and health problems. Long story short I failed to live up to others expectations of me. My wife and I were in the trial of our lives (5 years tear down, 2 years restoration, making it 7 years ) and we were not sprinting this race but rather crawling at a very slow pace. We were hurt, offended and my pastor let some of it happen, not sure he could've prevent it anyway. Add to all this the false starts in ministry. What a let down! I went to God with my mind made up to leave and I was there to pray about where to go. I take my ministry seriously and was not /am not willing to just go sit under any ministry. So I prayed with the intent to leave. The Lord spoke to me and said "You will go no where until you pray for that pastor, leaders and church". This was a difficult thing the Lord wanted me to do. Over the following weeks of daily prayer I began to learn that I was grossly misunderstanding the situation. Today a year or so later after weeks of prayer and monthly casual meetings with my pastor, the issue is resolved. My wife and I are prospering in our walk with God and ministry these days. Ive been in ministry one form or another for 20 years now. Ive been everything from usher to pastor, now evangelist. I say all this to qualify my answer to you and remind you that you are not alone. I notice that you named this thread "Im leaving my church, please pray". Please make it your mission to pray for that pastor before you go anywhere. I implore you, don't move then pray for God to bless your decision. Have you met with your pastor? Pray then meet. Give your pastor a shot at better understanding where you are at now. Give yourself a shot at understanding his position towards you. Meet with him casually, in a public place ( I met mine at restaurants cuz food helps break tension) without confrontation in mind, several times if need be. Give God room to work before you make up your mind.

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

This, because you are saying that the most important thing to you is God's will for you and your family. That is something I can respect. :thumbsup

We've been in some really tough spots, like the OP, but we never made a decision without taking it to God first. We taught our children to "see it through" if God doesn't release you.

Ironically, many times we had to stay put and "see it through", but we were always delivered in the end. We moved or the leadership moved.

We are in a tight spot now, but we feel we need to stay. I know from experience that when you can't take anymore, you can. And you only find out after the battle is over that He never did put more on you than you can bear.

We hear it said - more than some and fewer that others - when it is yours, it is always more than some.

In good or bad circumstances we are adding to our faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; and to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.

2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.


I'm sure Originalist will follow God's lead and make the right choice. :thumbsup

Afterall, anyone going to Mexico has GOT to be listening to God to make that type of venture. lol

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Have yo thought of having a sit down with him and discuss your concerns? I don't know him maybe it is impossible? But you have all that time and life involved why not give him a chance. Preachers are human maybe he just misspoke and might apologize to you or maybe you wasn't in his thoughts/

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

Heard this song at work today and thought of you, brother.

I am almost positive that this was recorded live at Faith World, in the "City Beautiful".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ja2XaS_JeDk

Re: I'm leaving my church. Please pray.
 

I lived on this song in my trials. thanks for the reminder of it.

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray. (cont.)
 

My pastor does not treat people like that from the pulpit or in person

Re: I'm leaving my chuch. Please pray. (cont.)
 

I was referring to more of the life's events/happenings that where outside of the church. There were about 4-5 years of events covered if I am not mistaken. I tend to be too concrete and think in black/white which gets me in trouble but at the same time enables me to put experiences in the present and move on. In other words whatever I am facing today I deal with and do not reflect back too much. I have been an engineer/problem solver most of my adult life so what works for me but may not work for someone else. nuf said.