Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Reposted from Dan Alicea's facebook wall:

Loren Yadon's Epic "The Tragedy of War" : On January 25, 1993, at the Landmark Conference, in Stockton, CA, Rev. Loren Yadon, nephew of an original General Board member of the United Pentecostal Church and teacher at Christian Life College, would speak truth about the intents of the his elders. He spoke of the "narrow mindedness" that had entered his ministerial organization, after the Westberg Resolution was passed at the 1992 General Conference, and instituted a divisive affirmation statement. A movement that has sought to silence a divergent view of salvation within its leaders.

It would cost him his job. His career. His error ... SPEAKING TRUTH.

https://soundcloud.com/lukeodle/tragedy-of-war

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

The remarks about the UPC start at the 23 minute mark.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

It's old news. No one cares anymore.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Deleted my post.

Never mind.... I decided it is best that I don't get into a discussion on this thread.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Good stuff.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Old news...but historic...and prophetic.

Two major departures and one gradual exodus later they still haven't learned their lesson in the UPCI.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

They simply shot the messenger.
The message still not getting thru, that is why the UPCI is in a decline and will continue in decline.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

A message can only cause a change when it is received by the listeners...

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Perhaps this is a good thing and we should encourage the hard core conservatives to keep on making even more resolutions, who knows with more departures and a bigger exodus, they might shrink enough to the point of becoming irrelevant. :heeheehee

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

I have been gone from the UPC since shortly after the fallout from this sermon so I have no desire to tear down the organization. I do find it sad that so many of us were forced out by he hardliners when we would have been happy to stay but for the attitude that we must all believe the same on every passage and every issue.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

How would you ever hope to maintain any type of unity having two messages preached on Sunday - one for the morning and one for the evening? Or one for Sunday and one for Wednesday? The church body would wonder at what point they would be saved.

Obviously, you wanted your point preached and believed. Not much different than the other side's view?

IMO, it would be better to preach the same thing - the "common faith" as Paul terms it. In the Greek, "common" is define as "shared".

Kind of a no-brainer that parting company was the only solution.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Have you listened to the sermon PO.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

I am doubting that you have based n the ignorance of your post.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

No, I didn't listen to it. I was assuming it was the same issue - one-step vs. three-step.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

:heeheehee

Still like your gay hairdo. :happydance

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

You do yourself a disservice by assuming and ranting rather than listening.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Well, was it about that issue? Because I have no idea what else could be so important to disagree about. And I don't have time to listen to it.

Give me more of a recap. What irritated you enough to leave?

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

You don't have time to listen but plenty of time to comment...

Interesting stuff. I listened from 23:00 to 48:00.

So what became of this Yadon fellow?

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

You can't tell me if the main issue was regarding the one-step vs. three-step? That's all I want to know. If it is not, then tell me it isn't?

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Affirmation statement. I didn't even listen to it.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

More comments from those who didn't even hear it, it's no wonder the UPC continues to decline.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

So, you are not going to answer the question? Is it one-step vs. three-step?

I'm listening to something else right now.

Seems like Yadon was on target about destroying the barn. I'd love to have seen a more inclusive UPC. Perhaps its not too late but it seems that ship has sailed. If it didn't happen under Urshan/Haney/DKB I don't know who would know enough about the past to seek to bring the 2 (or many now) sides together. Its a shame too, I really like DKB but he seems to want to be willingly ignorant of the past.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

It's not anything v. Anything. It's about getting along with others and not killing the innocent.

But you guys are fine with a great man taking a hit for attempting to reconcile an organization headed off the tracks.

Who cares that his life was turned upside down by hateful, angry, jealous men who claimed to have THE Truth, but they have not one once of love, and their truth is suspect at best.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Not interested in anything UPC. Thanks.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

DKB is not interested in uniting sides unless you cross over to the side that he is on.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Fair enough.


True words.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Actually, it is about one-step vs. three-step. I didn't have to listen to it to know that, as I thought. The red flag was DA's name. :heeheehee

"Fellowship the difference." - around the 26 minute marker.

Anyway, my original post stands. It is not possible to fellowship the two views. Why? Because the point of salvation is at odds. Someone and everyone must be true to their beliefs.

There is a "common" salvation and one side is wrong.

Yeah seems that way and that's kind of sad. He's got the respect (used to anyway) of enough people in the movement he could do much good for healing if he wanted to. I don't really think DKB in his heart of heart believes initial evidence. In his commentary on Romans he explains justification by faith then throws in a one liner defining saving faith as the 3 step program. In listening to a debate between DKB and James White on tongues (YouTube) in which DKB obviously didn't want to say White wasn't saved but it finally came out after several direct questions and much dancing by DKB. In his book the new birth he puts forgiveness of sins at baptism. When I first read the book I was young in the Lord and actually called to ask him how someone who was baptized in Jesus name and thus had their sins forgiven could go to hell? I didn't receive a satisfactory answer. It was years before I abandoned the IE doctrine, but that was probably the first crack in the dam.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Worked for 40 years.

It worked fine until the rewrites of UPC history began their campaign. Liars and dividers.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

You seriously can't believe your nonsense post can you?

I say its the side that ADDS to the gospel. The UPC is down under 3 million and that's "evangelistically speaking". They "won" the argument and destroyed the fellowship. And what's worse they continue to divide and shrink. Ironically enough one of the required reading books for ministerial license was "United we stand" but if we finished the well known phrase we'd be forced to admit "Divided we fall."

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Its talking about when the UPCI was formed it was two groups with some common beliefs that felt they could "fellowship the differences"....covers the revisionist mindset of some that pretend the original founders were something that they were not "überconservative....no beards or jewelry...baptism remits sins vs baptism because sins were remitted at repentence."....Saying in this war there are many getting caught in the crossfire and being killed or wounded and some becoming so disgusted with the fighting they want nothing of either side...its a good listen...not just one step vs three.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Look at it logically - Birds eye view of the congregation - the fly on the wall.

Two messages preached on one fine Sunday. Heads looking around, whispering - At what point is salvation effected in my life? Who do I listen to? Who do I follow? Who do I believe?

How in the world can those two views live together in harmony? NEVER.

There is one message that Paul and the Disciples preached. There are not two. Whether there were opposing views trying to live side by side according to you, DA, Yadon and others, there was only one message preached by Peter, et. al.

It was going to eventually collide. And let me tell you, this isn't the first time I have stated my view and DA, himself, agreed with me - it was going to cause division at some point.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

Every denomination is down, Jason.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

An entire generation lived side by side with different views. What makes you think you would go to someone else's church and preach what you knew they didn't believe?

That is the problem right there. The arrogant "ministers" that did this kind of thing and want to force everyone to believe just like them.

Pretty small puddle the UPC plays in these days, the blew up the barn for sure.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

There is only one "common" salvation. Whether that person came to my church and preached it or not, it is going to cause division.

This is pretty strong wording in Galatians 1:8, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"

I would be more concerned with that wording than what an organization of men were trying to do to find some "harmony" and "unity" on "opposing" views. "Opposing" being the operative word.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

You are so far out in left field you have no idea. There views were more alike than they were separate. But you guys got your way, it cost a lot of innocent people but like he says in the sermon, "You got the rats."

DKB and his troops have destroyed the UPC, a dying church that hasn't a clue they are killing themselves.

Re: Tragedy of War RECOVERED! LISTEN!
 

I believe that Brother Epley has said that they were alike, as you state, but it didn't remain that way - and that is the larger point.

Look, if I am going to lay my life down - even to the point of death - it better be for the view I would willingly die for. I'm not going to vacillate between two opinions. It is just not going to work for me.