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Scott Hutchinson 06-04-2007 05:04 PM
Where Was The Church In Babylon located ?
 
The church that is in Babylon ,elected together with you ,saluteth you ; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 4:13
Where was this church in Babylon located ?
Rome Or Jerusalem or Babylon by the Euphrates ,Or does this mean the church that was under Imperial Roman govt ?
Where was the church In Babylon located ?

Trouvere 06-04-2007 05:12 PM
Wasn't it Persia?

Scott Hutchinson 06-04-2007 05:13 PM
Could be ?

CC1 06-04-2007 05:15 PM
It was located at 1St and Broadmoor St. Right past the four way stop. On the right.

Scott Hutchinson 06-04-2007 05:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1 (Post 141386)
It was located at 1St and Broadmoor St. Right past the four way stop. On the right.
No fooling I though it was off of Old Hickory blvd.

CC1 06-04-2007 05:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 141395)
No fooling I though it was off of Old Hickory blvd.
LOL!!!

berkeley 06-04-2007 05:43 PM
Jerusalem. :)

Rev Dooley 06-04-2007 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 141372)
The church that is in Babylon ,elected together with you ,saluteth you ; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 4:13
Where was this church in Babylon located ?
Rome Or Jerusalem or Babylon by the Euphrates ,Or does this mean the church that was under Imperial Roman govt ?
Where was the church In Babylon located ?
In that day, Babylon was still a physical location on the map of the known world. IMO it was truly a church that was located in Persia/Iran.

mizpeh 06-04-2007 06:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyImportant (Post 141448)
In that day, Babylon was still a physical location on the map of the known world. IMO it was truly a church that was located in Persia/Iran.
I read in Jeremiah recently that Babylon was wiped out by the kings of the Medes and armies from the north and that Babylon would NEVER be inhabited. It had gone the way of Nineveh and Sodom and Gomorrah. So maybe Babylon is Rome?

Jeremiah 51:25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. 26 And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD

37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

Jeremiah 50:39 Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. 40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.

Rev Dooley 06-04-2007 07:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 141470)
I read in Jeremiah recently that Babylon was wiped out by the kings of the Medes and armies from the north and that Babylon would NEVER be inhabited. It had gone the way of Nineveh and Sodom and Gomorrah. So maybe Babylon is Rome?

Jeremiah 51:25 Behold, I am against thee, O destroying mountain, saith the LORD, which destroyest all the earth: and I will stretch out mine hand upon thee, and roll thee down from the rocks, and will make thee a burnt mountain. 26 And they shall not take of thee a stone for a corner, nor a stone for foundations; but thou shalt be desolate for ever, saith the LORD

37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwellingplace for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

Jeremiah 50:39 Therefore the wild beasts of the desert with the wild beasts of the islands shall dwell there, and the owls shall dwell therein: and it shall be no more inhabited for ever; neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation. 40 As God overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah and the neighbour cities thereof, saith the LORD; so shall no man abide there, neither shall any son of man dwell therein.
I understand where you are coming from here. But, isn't it still being lived in for people do indeed live in Iran (Persia) today and dwell near the Euphrates river.
Not trying to be argumentative. Just not sure if this has already happened or is for a future timeframe.

mfblume 06-04-2007 07:41 PM
As a side note, I have photos opf actual Babylon taht a man in the militrary sent me. There are the ruins from ancicent Babylon and some rebuilding there that Hussein made. The pics are relatively rare, since no one is allowed there now.

Praxeas 06-05-2007 01:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 141372)
The church that is in Babylon ,elected together with you ,saluteth you ; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 4:13
Where was this church in Babylon located ?
Rome Or Jerusalem or Babylon by the Euphrates ,Or does this mean the church that was under Imperial Roman govt ?
Where was the church In Babylon located ?
on Main Street?

BTW I saluteth you :lol

I believe the verse is 1Peter 5:13

Quote:
30 sn Most scholars understand Babylon here to be a figurative reference to Rome. Although in the OT the city of Babylon in Mesopotamia was the seat of tremendous power (2Ki_24-25; Isaiah 39; Jeremiah 25), by the time of the NT what was left was an insignificant town, and there is no tradition in Christian history that Peter ever visited there. On the other hand, Christian tradition connects Peter with the church in Rome, and many interpreters think other references to Babylon in the NT refer to Rome as well (Rev_14:8; Rev_16:19; Rev_17:5; Rev_18:2; Rev_18:10; Rev_18:21). Thus it is likely Peter was referring to Rome here.
My question is, why would Peter already be calling Rome Babylon and if so and Catholics believe Peter went there and this adds fuel to the fire what does that say of Rome now considering Revelation?

Chan 06-05-2007 08:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 141372)
The church that is in Babylon ,elected together with you ,saluteth you ; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 4:13
Where was this church in Babylon located ?
Rome Or Jerusalem or Babylon by the Euphrates ,Or does this mean the church that was under Imperial Roman govt ?
Where was the church In Babylon located ?
There was still a significant Jewish community in what used to be Babylon (since not all the Jews chose to return from Babylonian exile) and the only reasonable answer is that Peter was writing from there. There is no basis for Babylon being used as code word for either Jerusalem or Rome.

Coonskinner 06-05-2007 08:09 AM
Babylon.

mizpeh 06-05-2007 08:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan (Post 141860)
There was still a significant Jewish community in what used to be Babylon (since not all the Jews chose to return from Babylonian exile) and the only reasonable answer is that Peter was writing from there. There is no basis for Babylon being used as code word for either Jerusalem or Rome.
God tells his people to get out of Babylon in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 51:4 Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. 5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. 6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

If you read Jeremiah 50-52, you will see God is pronouncing judgements on Bablylon, the city, and warns his people to leave and states Babylon will be like Sodom and Gomorrah if you take a literal reading of this passage.

Ronzo 06-05-2007 08:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coonskinner (Post 141865)
Babylon.
Sure it wasn't Tripoli?

Digging4Truth 06-05-2007 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfblume (Post 141495)
As a side note, I have photos opf actual Babylon taht a man in the militrary sent me. There are the ruins from ancicent Babylon and some rebuilding there that Hussein made. The pics are relatively rare, since no one is allowed there now.
Sounds like they would be very interesting to see.

Chan 06-05-2007 11:21 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mizpeh (Post 141879)
God tells his people to get out of Babylon in Jeremiah.

Jeremiah 51:4 Thus the slain shall fall in the land of the Chaldeans, and they that are thrust through in her streets. 5 For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel. 6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul: be not cut off in her iniquity; for this is the time of the LORD'S vengeance; he will render unto her a recompence.

If you read Jeremiah 50-52, you will see God is pronouncing judgements on Bablylon, the city, and warns his people to leave and states Babylon will be like Sodom and Gomorrah if you take a literal reading of this passage.
But they didn't all leave and it's not clear that this prophecy was fulfilled when the Chaldeans or the Medes and Persians conquered the Babylonian Empire.

mizpeh 06-05-2007 11:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chan (Post 142088)
But they didn't all leave and it's not clear that this prophecy was fulfilled when the Chaldeans or the Medes and Persians conquered the Babylonian Empire.
Have you read Jeremiah chapt 50-51?

Jer 51:11 Make bright the arrows; gather the shields: the LORD hath raised up the spirit of the kings of the Medes: for his device is against Babylon, to destroy it; because it is the vengeance of the LORD, the vengeance of his temple.

Jeremiah 51:27 Set ye up a standard in the land, blow the trumpet among the nations, prepare the nations against her, call together against her the kingdoms of Ararat, Minni, and Ashchenaz; appoint a captain against her; cause the horses to come up as the rough caterpillers. 28 Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Medes, the captains thereof, and all the rulers thereof, and all the land of his dominion. 29 And the land shall tremble and sorrow: for every purpose of the LORD shall be performed against Babylon, to make the land of Babylon a desolation without an inhabitant.

If you don't believe these verses were fulfilled at that time, when do you think they will be fulfilled?

Sam 06-05-2007 07:55 PM
St. Louis, MO ????

Scott Hutchinson 06-05-2007 08:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson (Post 141372)
The church that is in Babylon ,elected together with you ,saluteth you ; and so doth Marcus my son. 1 Peter 4:13
Where was this church in Babylon located ?
Rome Or Jerusalem or Babylon by the Euphrates ,Or does this mean the church that was under Imperial Roman govt ?
Where was the church In Babylon located ?
I meant 1 Peter 5:13. Sorry.

Scott Hutchinson 06-05-2007 08:11 PM
Peter wrote this epistle general to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus ,Galtatia ,Cappadocia,Asia ,and Bithynia. 1 Peter 1:1
Now I understand that saved folk are considered pilgrims and strangers in this present world.
Of course too strangers refers to dispersed Jews see John 7:35.
Could the Babylon of 1 Peter 5:13 be referring to the Imperial Roman Empire ?

Sam 06-05-2007 11:33 PM
John MacArthur in his study Bible says the sister in Babylon means a church in Rome and references Rev. 17:18.

The 1599 Geneva Bible reads, "The Church that is at Babylon elected together with you, saluteth you..." and has a note which says, "In that famous city of Assyria, where Peter the Apostle of the circumcision then was."

The Douay (Roman Catholic) Bible that I have has notes compiled by Bishop Challoner (1691-1781) in it. The note for 1 Peter 5:13 says "Babylon, Figuratively, Rome."

The Spirit Filled Life Bible has the following note at 1 Peter 5:13
"Most scholars suggest that Babylon is a symbolic reference to imperial Rome, with which early church tradition associates both Peter and John Mark. It less likely refers to a sister congregation located in Babylon."

Chan 06-06-2007 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam (Post 143122)
John MacArthur in his study Bible says the sister in Babylon means a church in Rome and references Rev. 17:18.

The 1599 Geneva Bible reads, "The Church that is at Babylon elected together with you, saluteth you..." and has a note which says, "In that famous city of Assyria, where Peter the Apostle of the circumcision then was."

The Douay (Roman Catholic) Bible that I have has notes compiled by Bishop Challoner (1691-1781) in it. The note for 1 Peter 5:13 says "Babylon, Figuratively, Rome."

The Spirit Filled Life Bible has the following note at 1 Peter 5:13
"Most scholars suggest that Babylon is a symbolic reference to imperial Rome, with which early church tradition associates both Peter and John Mark. It less likely refers to a sister congregation located in Babylon."
I don't put much stock in modern Study Bible notes or Bible Commentaries. I like the notes in the Geneva Bible (I happen to have a facsimile of a Geneva Bible). I really don't see a biblical basis for assuming that "Babylon" is being used figuratively. Unless there is clear indication that something is figurative (e.g., a parable or prophetic language), whatever is written is to be taken literally.

Ther People's New Testament Commentary says: "5:13 The [church that is] at Babylon. She that is in Babylon (Revised Version). The word church is not in the Greek. Peter probably referred to his wife. The salutations are from individuals. On Babylon, see topic 9257. Alford says,
There is no reason whatever for regarding this any place but the Chaldean capital."

Steve Epley 06-06-2007 09:42 AM
I have always thought it was Rome I do not think the city of Babylon was in existance when the letter was written?

Scott Hutchinson 06-06-2007 10:38 AM
Well at least I'm not the only one who thought this might refer to Imperial Rome.


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