Why men hate church
 

Interesting article on the subject of the feminization of the church:

http://magazine.biola.edu/article/06...of-the-church/

Re: Why men hate church
 

Hey, in my limited experience the only reason most men even go to church is to meet women. Take that away, and what reason is there?

Re: Why men hate church
 

Good article with some very valid points. I also wonder about the idea that traditional church has robbed men of their natural authority. Instead of being a setting where men can meet and discuss scripture--or even church business--on an equal level, it's often more of the single-man government structure. Men would be more apt to be involved in church if they had more say-so over what goes on there and if teaching/preaching was more interactive and inclusive. The modern church structure where the pastor does most of the teaching/preaching and everyone simply listens is similar to me to the NT women being told to ask their husbands questions at home.

E.g., it's more of a passive, possibly feminine way of learning. Scripture seems to show that *church* in the local synagogue was different, with men taking an active role in the reading of scriptures and discussion.

I'm not for oppressing women in the church, but I do agree that men have been pushed into a passive, emasculating role. In the past, women have been accustomed to submissive, passive roles, so it was easy for them to fit into the traditional church picture. Men, not so much.

Essais, this is probably a place where "house-church" excels--it levels the playing field and makes church authority a little less intimidating. :)

Re: Why men hate church
 

If they hate Church which is a questionable statement......could it be because they are presented a steady diet of milk or even water of the word? Never any meat? Never the challenge to be like the ultimate man Jesus Christ?

The reason I do not attend Church is simple. Theres not enough truth taught to make it worthwhile. Almost everything taught at least foundationally is taught wrong. So I would LIKE to go to Church.

My prayer is God please let me find the true Church or at least a worthwhile Church before I die.

Re: Why men hate church
 

One of the issues is with men not being a leader spiritually in home or the church so women step up and do it.

I agree with much of this.

In some places men have their leadership cut off and placed in the offering basket. There are MANY churches where the pastor is the LEADER of peoples homes.

Re: Why men hate church
 

True. I have relatives in situations like that.

I had a pastor who said that if the husband is not in church then he (the pastor) is her spiritual authority. Blah blah blah

Re: Why men hate church
 

That was our house, at least for several years during the dark time of the 80's.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Re: Why men hate church
 

That has been my experience as well.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Doesn't the Institutional churches get it yet? NO!

Some have and started additional home meetings, which is a help.
But at least some on here should see, that it is time for REFORM.
I don't know how that is to happen, I wouldn't know how to go about it. But I don't believe it will happen until the Persecution starts.

The HEAD is sick. And the BODY keeps trying to feed it. I'm talking about the Institutional HEADQUARTERS.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Thank you for the article. I intend to read with the goal of gaining understanding!


let me just add.... and this has more to do with where I am today than anything said in AFF, or in this thread.....

Part of why some men hate church is because they are stinking selfish little boys who refuse to at like men. They play like they are men. they get some woman to sleep with them, they provide DNA for the creation of children, but the closest then to manhood they actually include in their own lives is showing their stinking drivers license to the poor soul serving them alcohol.

in short, Punk Kids dont act like grownups. Grownups recognize certain requirements of adulthood.

There I feel better. Hope that splapped some punk kid BOY in the fact. GROW UP!

carry on...

Re: Why men hate church
 

Renee, do you attend a home church? are you part of that kind of structure?

Re: Why men hate church
 

:heeheehee

As for the article, I think the author is spot on. The church structure (in general) in western society seems to be geared more for women than for men. Society in general seems to be moving in the same direction, the two situations are obviously connected.

Especially in regards to the music.

Re: Why men hate church
 

LOL! sorry for the personal rant. needed to get that off my chest in a "safe" environment!

Thank you for the article. I think I will find some stuff there that can help us!

Re: Why men hate church
 

Today's music is catered to women... "Hold me in your arms" "take me to that secret place"

There are more. All these "Jesus is my boyfriend" songs need to go. I mean, you could sing a lot songs as worships songs as well as songs to your loved one. They're interchangeable.

Re: Why men hate church
 

The article has several good points to think about.

IMO, the big 3 reasons I see for lack of men at church:
1) Pure laziness. They work during the week and want to sit and watch football on Sundays
2) Either no men's ministry or a very boring one (this is one area where I wish my church was better. The men's ministry hardly ever does anything, and when they do it's generally meeting on a saturday morning for breakfast. Woooot!)
3) Wimpy messages that focus more on Olsteen-style be positive, not negative, "you can do it!" junk; instead of preaching against sin and for living a holy life.

I don't believe the music has much to do with it; however, I'm biased, being the music minister at my church. Perhaps the skinny jeans trend turns some off, but not the music.

Re: Why men hate church
 

:thumbsup

I too pray that prayer. I pray that not only do I find it... but that I will be accepting of it when I do.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Amen.

Sadly, Christianity has become a religion that is all too often practiced "at church" and merely talked about outside of church. Evangelism is left for the "experts", along with teaching and preaching.

The role of men isn't being clearly established in a workable form. And sadly... a lot of women aren't buying into the biblical teaching with regards to male authority.

And frankly... on a personal note... sometimes I feel like Christianity as a whole neglects the very real and present need for male identity, male needs, male perspective, and male honor. Recently a Shiite Muslim family moved into our neighborhood. They are very good people. I am absolutely impressed with the social order of their home. The father of the home is held in the utmost honor.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Balderdash. I've heard this same old lame excuse before, but it's not why men aren't going to church or don't like going to church. It registers at the bottom of the scale when you ask a guy why he doesn't attend church.

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Much of our "praise and worship" music boarders on blasphemy. :bolt

Re: Why men hate church
 

Ok, I'll bite. How does it border on "blasphemy?"

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Miss B - the eloquence and truth of your response struck a resounding chord with me. In fact, our family has turned to house church for the very reasons mentioned above... in house church we don't have to sit and listen to music that we don't agree with doctrinally, we don't have to watch the fashion show and feel that we can't compare, we don't have to listen to one man speak in a monologue, who can't be interrupted, and asked to clarify or to even just ask a question... and our husbands are in their rightful place according to NT scripture, leading their home in prayer, worship, and doctrine.

Re: Why men hate church
 

I grew up in this kind of environment. All it does is build up a kingdom of women, or passive/feminine men, and lots of sexual problems within the church. Any church that I know of where the pastor takes authority from the husband and brings it to himself, then in every situation, that church has been beset with all kind of sexually immoral situations that never seem to end. Both my husband and I have family members still involved in churches like this, and it is so sad...

Re: Why men hate church
 

A major reason men aren't as interested in 'church' as they used to be I believe has to do with the lack of teaching and modeling concerning the proper role men have in the church and in the home. A man who just wants to plop down on the couch after work and watch tv is a man who has no clue (or doesn't care) about his role as a spiritual leader in his home or in his church (if he even bothers with church). People don't see church by and large as the kingdom of God involved in governmental functions of ruling and taking dominion spiritually and morally, and having a positive dominion-oriented impact on society. So, men just don't see much there to interest them, because there's really not much there to begin with.

As for 'men's ministry', churches ought to be teaching men how to be leaders, how to be one who 'is heard in the gates' of society, how to lead their family in the ways of God. But this is hard to do when Jesus is presented as a 'care bear' who exists to make everything all right or who exists to fulfill our wants. That is a presentation that is geared toward women, who need to feel secure and 'taken care of'. And that aspect of God's care is certainly necessary (can't leave women out!), but if that is the ONLY type of God being presented, or if mostly being presented, men aren't going to recognise that as anything worth following.

Men need several things to be 'fulfilled' -

1. A woman to rescue.
2. A cause to fight and die for.
3. A brotherhood to belong to.
4. A king to follow.

Jesus is a most worthy king to follow - he literally 'went to hell and back' for us. What man would not feel honoured to follow such a glorious and faithful leader? He is a great King, the greatest King, and it is an honour and a priviledge to serve him faithfully and valiantly.

Normal men do not resonate with the idea of expressing sappy, sentimental 'love' to another man... 'Jesus, come and take me away' just doesn't work with a normal guy.

Christ loved the church, and gave himself for it. In this manner men ought to love their wives. Yes, Christ is head of the church, and the man is the head of the woman, but the power of the chivalric aspect of sacrificing oneself for the "love of one's youth" cannot be underestimated.

(Of course, such a thing requires a woman who is not a quasi-lesbian brat who demands to 'wear the pants', but requires an actual WOMAN with true femininity...)

Christian men ought to feel they are a 'band of brothers', brothers in arms in the service of the king. Fighting a cause worth their efforts, worth dying for. What greater cause can there be than the salvation of mankind, and the enforcement of the Pax Christi upon this world of spiritual darkness?

All these things and more are essential to the God-endowed natural makeup of men... and most if not all these things are missing in 'church' these days. They are also missing in society, in general, having been replaced with effeminized Phil Donahue neutering (aka Babylonian castration) and a false 'machismo' which is nothing but an evil caricature of true godly manhood.

There is a reason 'sports', especially FOOTBALL (american football, not that goofy european kickball game) has such a grip on men... The team is alike a military squad, coach is the Leader, they work together to defeat the enemy... The exact same purpose was served by jousting and other tourneys in the medieval period, it provides a safe way for men to be men without actually needing to cry havoc and let slip the dogs of war and ravage some poor town in the next valley.

And simply trying to fit 'Onward Christian Soldiers' into the worship service isn't going to cut it.

Re: Why men hate church
 

:thumbsup :highfive

Re: Why men hate church
 

The bolded part is spot on.

:highfive

So what you're saying is that the problem is that men are walking in the flesh.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Well, the bible teaches that effeminate men won't inherit the kingdom.

Re: Why men hate church
 

Side note here - Seems to me I have heard this rant about "Pure Laziness" before - probably more then once I recall.

I do not doubt that there are grown men who are just immature kids who never grew up and I also have no doubt that there are lazy men in churches all over the U.S. of A.

Having said that - not all men (and most likely VERY few) that go to church are "lazy" - in fact, I would suspect that a great deal of men who are faithful to service are not in fact lazy people.

I know many who work long hours, some work more then one job. they provide for their homes - and yes, when the weekend comes, they are tired - who wouldn't be! The level of involvement in anything outside of the home and work should not be used as some sort of measuring stick to qualify those with a good work ethic versus the plain old lazy. This is absurd.

I believe we all need to pray and find our part in the work of God - believe me - but that does not mean that if person A is involved in Sunday School, teached 5-Bible studies a week, and never misses Church is somehow elevated over person B who for many reasons, including work schedules, can't be as involved with several funtions of the Church.

This is where the comparing ourselves is so unwise, and down right foolish. Go tell the next farmer or doctor, or nurse that they are clearly lazy because they don't grace the pew every Sunday, or that they don't "do enough" for the kingdom or souls.

There is a systemic problem with westernized church that goes far beyond the points of this article, believe me..

but men walking in the flesh will...

got it

Re: Why men hate church
 

You mentioned my wording of "pure laziness," but completely butcher and misrepresent what I said. Look below, I wrote about 3 reasons for the lack of men at church.

I said nothing about involvement. That's a completely different topic, and for that I wouldn't call them lazy, nor would I compare them to others more involved. I would, however, look at what their priorities are. Some claim to be unable to be involved in any ministry, yet find time to take kids to soccer, baseball, football, gymnastics, etc; and sit around weekends watching sports or going on recreational activities.

Re: Why men hate church
 

I seriously doubt you 'got it'.

:smack

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Yep.

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Crystal clear David - I understand where you are coming from now and don't disagree.

I realize it is few and far between even in the instances I posted. Glad you chimed in here!

Re: Why men hate church
 

...and I do believe in provoking one another to good works - and with that in mind, men do need to step up spiritually as well as financially and etc. With all that, the man who is trying his level best to guide his home needs the authority to do so and balance it as he seeks God.

I do not believe it is anyones place but Gods, to jump in and mediate between a husband and wife and their home - that is not a line a pastor should cross - with the exception of the couple individually or together, living in sin, and parading this around in front of the church.

Of course, one mans balance is another compromise, so a win/win is difficult here..

Re: Why men hate church
 

A former pastor recognized these issues which is why we started a yearly "sportsmen hunting and fishing" night in our church basement where we got together to discus hunting, fishing, firearms, etc. Man women came (and enjoyed it) but the night was really designed for men and their sons. In just a few years the thing became huge where we had dozens of local businesses donating raffle items. It brought in several dozen visitors as well.

My father-in-law (on the right) talking to one of my dads neighbors, who was a visitor and happens to be a taxidermist (and who looks an awful lot like Uncle Si) on the left.

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps2a8c2869.jpg

Even set up a shooting range in one corner where we had a few airguns and bows (no actual firearms though for obvious reasons).

http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w...ps18c448f0.jpg

Re: Why men hate church
 

I'd keep an eye on that dude in the KISS shirt... looks a little glassy eyed there..

lol