Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Just a questions.

I read this article today and for some reason I got mad. Israel has done other things in the past that have ignited anger. Is it un christian to get mad at Israel? Do I have to support/bless them no matter what?

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...land_grab.html

Mods,
if this is in the wrong forum feel free to move.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

While personally I support Israel in a general sense, I do not see the need for the USA to give them aid financially. Nor do I see the need for this unconditional support some Christians insist on. Having said that, I do think they are the only normal country in that region.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

What does it mean to "Support Israel"?

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I don't believe we have to support everything Israel does as a nation; however, we should support their right to exist and be free.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

If the United states is going to give financial aid to any country on earth it should be to the nation of Israel as they are God's chosen people and God gave the promise that He would bless those that blessed them. As to them taking that land it is already thier land given to them by God. So yes i support them.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

We give billions of dollars in aid to the Israelis. We also give billions of dollars in aid to the Palestinians. And the Saudis. And so on and so on.

I don't think we should be giving anybody a dime outside our borders, at least not until we get our own house cleaned up first.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

This line of thinking is whats wrong with the whole situation.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Do you believe God gave Israel certain land?

you need to read Galatians

you also need to read Galatians

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Who is 'Israel', according to the Bible?

"Not as though the word of God has taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:"

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I'm assuming you mean Galatians 4, though I don't see what relevance it has to whether we should support the nation or not.

IMO, Romans 11 is more relevant:

All Israel will one day be saved. In order for that to happen, Israel must survive, and we should stand by or support them.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Do you and Odooley6985 hold to replacement theology?

never heard of it

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

They didn't actually just "take land that God gave them"...Land was set aside FOR them and then the Arabs attacked. They captured land that was in Arab hands as a part of that war

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

NO! NO! NO! NO!
Still, I'd never want to fight AGAINST them either.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

LOL

That's pretty much my thought.

Somehow I get the feeling that if all of China rose up against them, they (China) would end up losing in the end.

They certainly have their issues that I do NOT agree with, but God has a way of dealing with them in His OWN way.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

A very brief nut shell cliff notes version of replacement theology is to simply point out that those who hold to this believe that the church has replaced Israel as God chosen people because Israel rejected Jesus as their Messiah. They would also believe that there is no separate eschatological plan for Israel and the church. (this separate plan has nothing to do with salvation in the sense of a separate means of being saved bit rather that all of the old testament promises made to Israel as a nation will one day be fulfilled.)

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Yep. It bleeds into a lot fo NT theology too. Most who believe in replacement theology also believe that every promise made to Israel in the OT transfers over to us now completely. I think that is why so many do all their preaching out of the OT to some degree.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Is modern day Israel really a nation, and a people, established by God? If so, God has established an antichrist nation-people, a view which I have trouble accepting.

1Jn 2:22 Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son.

1Jn 4:3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Great point. Most USA Christians, influenced by TV blurbs showing the Wailing Wall, suppose Israel is a very religious country. Rather, Israel is a politically secular nation that is ever-aware of their Jewish traditions and history. So, this is to be distinguished from having any kind of "faith in God." Only about 75% of Israel claims to be any sort of Jewish. Of that 75% nominally "jewish," only 53% attempt to keep any kind of Sabbath observance (just one benchmark for identifying what we think of as jewish. ) Or, out of that 75% Jewish, 35% do not believe in God. So, Jewishness is very loosely defined in Israel, and it may only refer to what one's grandparents claimed. You will find a bigger population of "God's Chosen People" in New York City. So, maybe that's where the Messiah will next appear, in NYC, on the east side of Megiddo Street.

Israel is to be supported because they try to protect civil liberties, unlike the Arab mindset of their neighbors. Israel is a defacto secular nation, unlike their neighbors. It should be all about protecting freedom, and not religion. Your biblical interpretations are only that--interpretations.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Gal 3
15 Brethren, I speak in terms of human relations: even though it is only a man’s covenant, yet when it has been ratified, no one sets it aside or adds conditions to it.
16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as referring to many, but rather to one, “And to your seed,” that is, Christ.

29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s descendants, heirs according to promise.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

:yourock

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

This is what is so dangerous about dispensationalism. We can not tell the future. What if we have it all wrong and we are really persecuting God's chosen? It happened before to the Jews of Jesus's day. They thought they were doing God a favor.

My opinion is that as a nation we need to protect our own borders and stay out of other peoples business. What about our poor, homeless and widows?

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

So if people want to support Israel then do it with your own money and blood.
Send Israel a check. Join the Israel army. Move there and pay taxes to support the cause. Just don't ask me to support them by using my tax dollars and sending Americas youth to fight their wars.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I try really hard not to just dismiss something simply because of the source. I saw this is Slate. I almost just replied that you should not believe anything said by that bunch of radical leftist Israel haters.

Then I told myself not to do that. I generally want people to consider the argument then decide if it stands on its own.

I read the article. And...well... This is SLATE. They are not capable of telling actual factual truth. THey MUST say whatever they say in a way that does damage to the things they hate. That is why Slate exists.

I was right in the first place.

Dude, seriously I suppose one can find a reason to be mad at any country. Im mad at the US about right now. I can give you a list of things that make me mad at Canada, Mexico, England, France (boy thats a long list) China, Russia... I know this is just anathama but I have reason to be angry at NORWAY (gasp and dont tell SLATE).

BUT seriously this is hack journalism. The writer is no more a journalist than Peter the Great was a lover a peace and democracy.

Israel has a serious problem with the Bedouins. They have to do something to deal with the issue. What Israel is doing there is less intrusive than what happens in America with immanent domain claims and this issue with the Bedouins is far less intrusive. These people are doing things that would utterly disgust you.

How would you feel if your daughter was kept utterly uneducated, locked up and sold into marriage at very young age? These tribes do this every day.

They are crime riddled and live on the edge of subsistance poverty. They are bringing kids into the world with no better hope than to live in filth and die young.

Then there is the issue of terrorism. These uber poor communities are breeding grounds for radicalism. Left as they are they will eventually be infiltrated by radial muslims looking for hopless kids to strap bombs on themselves and walk into the local diner to end it all!

What you need to do is consider the source and not let dirtbag leftest haters of Israel be your source of education on the state of things in Israel.

good grief. :throwrock

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

First of all, no American has gone to fight a war for Israel. None.

Second of all, America has a vested interest in stability in the middle east and Israel is the ONLY democracy in the area.

What money we spend in places like Israel has a direct impact on
1. Stability in the US.
2. Trade that makes America wealthy
3. A point of intelegence gathering that allows us to understand what radical islamists who want to distroy AMERICA are doing.

stop being myopic.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Yeah the old spread democracy reason. All these reasons are used by pro- war people to make money. I use to believe just like you. Then my eyes were opened. I have been to the middle east. I have spoken to people from all over the world on this very subject. What you are fed by the media and government is 100% LIES!

Pentecostals use to believe in pacifism. There is a great thread on this subject on the forum.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...72#post1276972

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I guess I missed where America's youth were sent to fight in the 6 day war, or any other Israeli war for that matter. When did this happen?

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

Exactly. I agree!

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I never claimed that American youth were sent to fight their wars.
What I said was

Send Israel a check. Join the Israel army. Move there and pay taxes to support the cause. Just don't ask me to support them by using my tax dollars and sending Americas youth to fight their wars.

If you say that you want to support Israel then it appears that you are not opposed to support them with military action. I am opposed to helping Israel in the future with American troops.

Anytime we send a country money or weapons we are helping them fight their war.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

You mean like the former governments of Egypt, Libya, Iraq, and the current government of Syria?

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

God raised up Nebuchadnezzar, too.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

:highfive

and Obama...

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

You did too! Look at the part in bold...

You said it.

And even with your "I didn't write what I wrote" claim you made the same kind of statement...

My question, again, when were America's soldiers ever sent to fight an Israeli war? Name just one Israeli war (6 day War, Yom Kippur War, '82 Lebanon War) where the US sent troops to fight for Israel.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I thought we were supposed to spread the Gospel, not democracy.
If Jesus wanted to conquer, he could have brought down a army of angels to kill anyone who opposed him.This was the same false assumption that the disciples originally had. They wanted a conquering King that would kill all of their enemies.

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

I was speaking of it happening in the future. Which is what some people want.

I am not going to get into an English debate. But I did not use the word "when".

I did not say "when we sent troops".

Re: Do you have to support Israel no matter what?
 

But we have sent them money and weapons. We have helped them. We are helping them right now.