Funeral denied
 

A distant friend of mine recently passed away after a brief bout with cancer. She attended sparingly the church I grew up in. Her mother has been a member of said church for over 40 years. The pastor denied the request for funeral service to be held at the church. His reason was the deceased was not a member in good standing! I have never heard of this happening! And personally I think it's a sorry act as a human much less as someone who is a pastor!! Any opinions out there??!

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Sounds absurd.

Glad he is not my Pastor

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A friend of mine attends a UPC church and did so prior to moving to her current state. When her father, who was Roman Catholic, recently passed away, there was nobody Catholic to perform services, as he didn't attend anything but Latin mass church services. His wife attends an AOG church but the pastor refused to do the service, even though he offered to have the service at his church.

My friend called her former UPC pastor, who lives about 4 hours from where her dad lived and told him the situation. He didn't hesitate to answer the need to perform the service. Him and his wife, who had been very sick and hospitalized almost all summer, both came and were hospitable.

Her mother's pastor, who did attend the funeral service but not the graveside service (which was an additional hour away that the UPC pastor also attended, even though it was further west), wasn't cordial at all. He spoke to her mother but addressed nobody else nor did he ask about any of the other family present.

It's an act of compassion I will never forget, and I'm sure she won't either. Her mother was so honored as well.

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Hopefully his church will shrink after this.

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I don't understand why apostolics feel the need to have a 'preacher conduct funeral services' to begin with.

Maybe it's cause I'm Irish-American and have a certain affinity for the wake as opposed to the funeral. I dunno?

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i think its because you are Irish and dont like to do what everybody else thinks folks ought to do.
LOL!

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I pastor a church....and to be honest with you our building is not a public venue that is up for rent or use by the community. We dont rent it out or let folks use it for weddings, services, funerals, or anything for that matter. It is for church use and church use only. The only weddings, funerals or whatever that are allowed there are of folks that are members.

I am sorry if folks dont like that but it is too bad. I learned a long time ago that if you let it be used for all kinds of things, all kinds of things will go on in it. It is not a funeral home, a wedding chapel, or a rental hall.....it is an Apostolic, Pentecostal Oneness church and that is what it is going to be used for.

Now as far as the situation that was mentioned here, since I dont know all the facts....and there are always other sides to a story...I am not willing to pass judgment on this mans humanity or his pastoring.

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I want to always be kind...go the second mile....bless the living and bury the dead.

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AMEN!!!

People are very sensitive at funerals And if any kindness can be shown, it should be done, in the name of Jesus.

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I think it is definitely a hardline position to take. But it is within the pastor's authority to make such a decision.

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What about the possibility of ministering to the family members and friends of a "non-member" in their time of loss? What a great excuse to gather a bunch of non-believers in one place and teach them about Jesus and his sacrifice. It can be done in a tasteful way, without completely co-opting the funeral service.

My current church is "Apostolic Pentecostal Oneness", and we have funerals for anyone loosely associated with the church who's family desires it. Our ministers see it as an opportunity to show love, compassion, and Jesus to the hurting of this world.

What's more important? Keeping your building full of "holy" people? Or making it a venue for the lost to find Jesus? Hmm....

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So if one of your long time members child dies you would also deny funeral??

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This was the whole point to me. Her poor mother was turned away by her own church and pastor in her time of need.

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I always thought the church building was a tool for ministry. My grandfather was a pastor for years, I have 6 cousins who are pastors, 5 are Pentecostal and 1 Baptist! I have never heard of a funeral service being denied! The post about the church being used as only a church seems as if someone fell in love with a church building instead of Jesus!!

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Honestly I have never heard of denying a funeral. I have preached multitudes of funerals for non members of relatives through the years. Now weddings are different I am not performing weddings for anyone not members or allowing them to use the church.

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Funerals and weddings are some of the best opportunities to reach people who would never come to hear preaching in a regular church service. We've had people join our church as a result of allowing funerals and weddings in our building. We also host early voting in our area and we have literally tens of thousands of people walk through our doors to vote. We have had people visit and join as a result. I see our building as a multiple-purpose, multiple-function facility that is for use to as many as we can offer it to. We don't charge for funerals but we do charge rental fees for nonmembers for weddings or other functions. We have said no to other functions that were a stretch, but those are few and far between. Anytime we can get people in the doors we feel like there's a chance we can make some kind of impact. They walk in and see our posters and flyers and ads for upcoming events etc. Sometimes they show up later. Missed opportunity to say no in my opinion.

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As was mentioned, it's certainly within his purview or right to make the decisions regarding funerals or marriages to non-members. Should he have done this out of respect to the deceased's mother who was a member? Perhaps. However, I'm not going to speak ill of the man, say he's a sorry human being for denying the funeral, or hope the church he pastors goes under.

My Pastor has officiated funerals for non-members in the past. Just a few months ago, a local public elementary school we sponsor asked if he would meet the family of a child who died. None of them were members or had ever come to the church. My Pastor met with them, officiated the funeral, opened the church to the family and friends for the post-funeral gathering and had several men and women from the church make food for them. I thought it was an incredible gesture of love and compassion.

But again, I'm not going to fault this Pastor's decision; neither should anyone else.

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Under what circumstances should we fault pastors for poor judgment and displays of behavior that lack compassion?

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I would say it's up to a given pastor and the convictions God has given him for that specific congregation.

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It certainly might look that way and might be the case here. However, a church can support a grieving family member in other ways without hosting the funeral itself.

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I fail to see any circumstance where ministering to hurting people - who are asking for you to minister to them (in this case, the mother, who IS a member of the church) - is something God would tell someone "not" to do.

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When my mom died 6 years ago my pastor at the time not only allowed the funeral to be conducted within the building, but he also allowed me to officiate it. He attended. My wife and I put the entire thing together from start to finish.

My mother was filled with the Holy Ghost and baptized in that church. However, she didn't attend for very long. She had bouts with depression and deep emotional issues as a result of my father's physical/emotional abuse & abandonment... and the death of my brother that followed. She lived a very private and almost isolated life. She couldn't manage being around a lot of people.

Even though she wasn't a "member in good standing" as they say, my pastor graciously allowed use of the church for her funeral. He even spoke for a few moments (per my request). He acknowledged her deep emotional struggles... and her tender Christian spirituality. He believed that God was gracious and merciful to her and expressed it openly.

I don't know why a pastor would deny a funeral service in his building... and I don't entirely agree with denying a funeral service unless the person was of another faith entirely. However, it is within the pastor's rights to do so.

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I just attended a funeral for my boss' brother who suffered from mental illness. It was a very touching service, and I know how difficult it can be to officiate in a service celebrating a life that exhibited such struggle. It reminded me of an in-law who passed away a few years back, after she, too, had struggled with a lifetime of mental illness. I'm glad you were able to have a service that you feel was respectful and comforting.

This phrase always strikes me as amusing and strange. What do we mean by "rights"? We're so American, and we try to bring American/democratic principals into the church, when Christ and Paul were hardly "democratic" in their teachings. Democracy is about "what is best for ME". Christ is about "what is best for OTHERS".

No one is saying the man should be sued. Of course it's within his "rights" to not officiate. It's also within his "rights" to cancel all services during the summer and tell his congregation to take a few months off, while he goes on a Mediterranean cruise. That doesn't mean it's prudent or what Christ is calling him to.

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It was a blessing in our time of loss.



Amen. I'd like to see more democratic process within the church. However, as it stands the pastor does have the authority to make such judgment calls. I agree with you... this pastor's choice wasn't prudent and may actually cause deep emotional harm to the parishioner.

Re: Funeral denied
 

I guess I missed this part of the story; or rather, the original post didn't say the Pastor said God told him not to do the funeral.

Personally, the Pastor could, and probably should, have done the funeral.

There is one thing to consider. One church I attended previously had bylaws written where the church would not allow either funerals or weddings of non-members. The way the original post is written, makes me think this church might have that kind of bylaw.

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Great story. I have witnessed similar acts of compassion by UPCI ministers to total strangers who are not of the Apostolic faith.

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Funerals no problems Weddings are a horse of a different color.

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"Let the dead bury the dead" - Jesus

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I wrote that in response to:

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I would let them use the church....and i would be glad to officiate. However I would be very careful about who else officiated there.
A few years ago a man that had been a longtime Apostolic preacher passed...his wife came and wanted to have the service in our church (they had attended some years before).....however she wanted to have a Trinitarian preacher do the service. I was willing to let them use the church but not open up our pulpit to a trinny. I felt that she was doing dishonor to her late husband and our church.

Funny thing was the Trinitarian preacher did not show....and they ended up asking me to preach it (it had been changed to another church)....I preached on what the late preacher believed...truly enjoyed myself.

I am not hardhearted but there are certain things I don't allow....some of you are willing to let every theological Tom, Dick and Harry do their thing in your building? ....have at it.....but not me.

I actually agree more with Elder Epley....some flexibility in funerals.....very little on weddings.

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I think it's a totally different matter to request another minister officiate the service in your church.

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Fer sure, fer sure donchyaknow, it's alla dem fenian genetics a-rummagin' round in me blood.

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I know talking about weddings is a hijacking but, in this "modern" world we live in, you better be careful letting non-members of your church have a wedding at your church.

Because when the first gay couple shows up and wants to use your location, and you say "we dont do that" then they will be looking for a lawyer and the last couple you married that werent members of your church.

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I don't see a bible example or precedent of preachers or elders performing marriages to begin with, but if a church were to conduct a marriage, I would think it would ONLY be for those who are members of the church.

This ain't Vegas.

Re: Funeral denied
 

Speaking of Irish funerals... man goes down to Port Lairge and checks into a little bed and breakfast type of place. The woman shows him his room, and he sees there's no ceiling, you can see clear into the second floor. So he says to her 'Ma'am, there's no ceiling!' she says to him 'Don't worry, the couple upstairs will only be dropping in every now and then.'

So the next morning he calls on the woman of the house, and says 'I'll have you to know I found a dead flea in me bed last night.' She says to him 'oh, what's one little dead flea?' He says 'Twasn't the flea were a problem, it were the 40,000 others who showed up for the wake!'

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Weddings, yeah.....everyone should understand that people have convictions regarding this.

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For many people, the only time they hear preaching is at a funeral.

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I certainly agree with you to a point, but I had an experience in a church where i was shocked at what was allowed at a funeral.

A friend attends the Church of Christ or something like that. It was similar to a Lutheran church to me. When her father passed, her minister did the funeral, but my friend wanted another friend of her dad's to speak. Her dad's friend is Muslim. No problem.

Except he pretty much took over most of the service with his chantings, prayers, and rituals. I sat there. I told my husband to sit there. We did not bow during his prayer or his singing. We didn't close our eyes in reverence. I truly was sickened.

In addition, after he was finished, her pastor, who was a woman (not that I think there is anything wrong with that, but I think it plays into this situation), did her rituals as well but before dismissing us, she tells us something along the lines of 'pray to our brother, prophet, savior, Jesus, whatever you want to call him'...

WHAT???????????????

Are you serious?????

Whatever we want to call HIM???

At that point, I was beyond sickened. I was in shock that anyone who calls themselves a minister of God and Jesus would compromise themselves as to not offend.

I personally didn't care if my lack of reverence offended anyone. That Muslim man, knowing completely that he was in a supposed church of God who also believes Jesus is God (or maybe they don't anymore), didn't seem to care if he offended people either.

I refuse to embrace the beliefs of others for the sake of a funeral when they are so far apart from my own.

The only thing I really disagreed with was putting a 'trinnie' in your pulpit. To me, it depends on what you think his role in the funeral would be. If he's merely speaking of the dead, I don't think it matters. To preach, no, I wouldn't agree that you should allow such.

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I know those trinnie are of the debil. :heeheehee

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The plan was for him to preach....I would not allow that in our pulpit.