Will American Christians be persecuted in your lif
 

What do you think? Will American Christians suffer persecution in your lifetime? I don't mean having to deal with snarky comments from Bill Maher or Chris Matthews, I mean roundups, imprisonments, executions, confiscations of children, property, etc...?

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Oh yes. That particular snowball started rolling a few decades ago but has reached a speed where we will start seeing true "FEMA Camp" style persecution very soon, that is unless civil war interrupts the process which is also a distinct possibility.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

I meant to add 'don't know', so if you don't know just post a response.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Yes. Anti-bullying and anti-hate speech laws will soon be applied to everyone everywhere, including ministers and churches. Anyone using "hate speech" (ex preaching against sin) will be fined or jailed for their offense.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

YES! It may start like that. It will get worse.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Anti-bullying is one things. Bullying is harassment. Usually its against one specific person. The constitution is not clear on things like healthcare. But its very very very clear on freedom of speech. I would have a fat payday coming my way if the Govt arrested me for something I said. Especially something I said in a religious setting. You say will be like you know for sure. Religious paranoia much?

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

No, don't think so. But my lifetime is probably no more than thirty years at best.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Not that it is IMPOSSIBLE, but I don't believe that the United States of America will EVER see the true persecution of Christians.

I believe America is special.
I believe GOD has a plan of preservation for us-- through the tribulation period where we will see Christian persecution in other places around the world. We will be in a place politically and economically where our influence will be of no effect.

GOD is going to use a nation to help Israel.
The USA will be that nation.

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I believe America is Mystery Babylon. Saints will be put to death for sport. Lots of them.

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Amen! The Beast (One World Government) will rule the world from America.
On his back, will come in Mystery Babylon (One World Religion)

Michael, did I send you one of my books? What did you think of it? I'd like to have some feedback.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Have you heard of a book called "The Harbinger"?

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

I don't recall getting a book from you. If I do you will get feedback.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Man, I sure hope not.

and NONE of this spew backed with scripture...

and NONE of this spew backed with scripture...

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Really?

I believe there will be a "Great Tribulation" period of time-- a time of great trouble for Christians in various parts of the world. I believe that this is spoken of in the Bible. Don't you?

I believe that America as a country will exist during and through this time period because the Bible speaks of a distant nation that will come and help Israel "with wings of an eagle" during this time period.

I believe that verse is a reference to America.

God will use America to bring deliverance to Israel in the future, during the period refered to as "The Great Tribulation".

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

That's a popular belief, but God delivered Israel on eagle's wings way back in Exodus, too, several thousand years before the US ever existed (Exodus 19:4). I would be cautious in reading the USA into the Scriptures.

Zechariah 14:2 tells us ALL NATIONS shall be gathered against Jerusalem. So either the US will be a part of that gathering, or else the US will not exist during that time.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

1) I would love to believe that SCOTUS will always uphold the 1st, but it's not a guarantee. There are clear limits to "free speech" already in place. Try going to a crowded theater, yelling "Fire! Fire!" and see if the 1st amendment will protect you from prosecution. Try going to an airport and talking about some kind of threat to an airline, see how far your 1st amendment will take you. The SCOTUS has agreed there are limits to "free speech."

2) There have been several private businesses sued, with some being put out of business for alleged discrimination against gays. This years SCOTUS ruling will help to enable more lawsuits against private business owners who have personal or religious convictions against this lifestyle. And not only has it affected private businesses, but it has set the precedent to be used against churches in the near future.

No, I don't have religious paranoia; but I am able to see what has happened as setting the precedent for future legal issues.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Baxter is a big proponent of this thought. America isn't special. America is a baby-killing, sin-loving, gay-supporting steamy pile of trash in God's nostrils. It's only His mercy, and the number of Godly people in America, that keeps God from destroying her. God Himself will help Israel. He will not allow another to get the glory; and certainly not a sinful nation like America.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

I don't believe America is Babylon, nor will the OWG be headquartered here. America has lost her luster and shine. Fifty or sixy years ago, I may have agreed with you; but not today. Especially with the new revelations that the US NSA has been spying on everyone, including the Pope. We've lost too much credibility to be the OWG HQ. That will likely be based in Belgium where the World Court is already located.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

People put to death for sport in America? Surely you jest.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Right. I tend to believe the US will be here, but will be aligned against Israel. Perhaps Israel will launch a pre-emptive strike which will turn everyone, including the US against it; or they could cause the same uniting against it by continuing and expanding their settlements against the will of the US and UN.

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Doomsdayers have been predicting the end for many thousands of years now. The fact is, there's been 'ends' for a number of societies throughout history, with famine, disease and wars. America, except for the destruction of the Native American society, has never really seen trials and tribulations such as much of the world has and that's a problem.

Americans are America-centric, i.e., if it doesn't happen here then it's not happening or isn't that important. Imagine being in Nagasaki or Hiroshima, total and utter destruction. If that had been New York City or Dallas, the doomsdayers would be beside themselves in pointing out the wrath of God that was being poured out. There were over 250,000 people killed in the tsunami a few years ago. Entire villages were washed away, as if they had never existed. Here, that would be God mass killing people for the sins of those living wherever it occurred. Deaths by the thousands occur frequently in Africa through starvation and war. If that occurred here, again the endtimers would be pointing out that God was punishing us, the end is here.

Of course America is going to go through tribulation, the world goes through tribulation. When it comes, people are going to suffer and die. Families will be scattered as has occurred so many many times throughout history. That's the cycle of creation it seems.

But, Christians aren't going to be singled out and persecuted. That's an irrational fear that has it's roots in the fearmongering of the Christian media. Fear sells well.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

So you don't believe the NT teaches that christians should expect persecution because of their faith? Or that the 'world hates God and His people'?

Or was all that just 'for them, back then, and not us today'?

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

I would be cautious in reading America out of the Scriptures, too. Although I don't buy the 'eagles wings = America' nonsense, I do believe America is foretold in prophecy and still has a destiny to fulfill.

As for 'all nations', such statements must be kept in context. Caesar taxed 'all the world' but it did not include China or Japan. The gospel was preached unto 'all nations' in the first century during Paul's ministry but it had not been preached any further south than Upper Egypt or any further east than Persia at the most, I would imagine.

Also, a major problem people have is reading modern situations back into ancient prophecies to postulate future fulfillments. Prophecies concerning 'nations' do not necessarily correspond to 'countries' as we understand them today in the modern sense, since 'republics' as we know them pretty much did not exist in the days the prophecies were given. 'Nations' in the Bible have to do with ethnic groups and descendency, not political lines on a modern map.

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Will you rejoice if you are persecuted for your faith?

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Yes. Doesn't mean I'll enjoy it, but I will give praise to God and thank Him for counting me worthy to be be conformed to the image of Christ in my weak and pathetic way, as I am sure I will be weak and pathetic on that day, if it ever comes.

The spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. I pray I may be able to stand if I am tested in that way,

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Originally Posted by renee819
Berkeley wrote
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If you are looking for a scripture that says, “America did this or that” you will not find it.

Prophecy is a puzzle, and all of the pieces have to fit, or you will know that something is wrong, if the piece don't fit, it is placed in the wrong place.
Do I have all the pieces? No, no one does, but I have enough to know that God has been leading me in the right direction. This will be sketchy, because there isn't enough space and time, to put it all together here.

I don't know if I can do this without going into who all the 'beasts' of Dan. represent, but that would take a book. So I will try to just keep it to The Beast.

Who has led the world in just about everything for the last 100 yrs?
In inventions, economic growth, medicine, war materials, etc,
When there is hunger anywhere in the world, who has been the first to respond?
When there is war, who has went in, fighting, but settled it?
Who is rising up a One World Government---a New World Order?
Who is behind the One World Religion?

The UN, was promoted by the US, “power was given to it” to bring peace in the World.
The UN, is behind the One World Religion---because they say, “We can't have peace until we have a One World Religion.” The Un isn't the Beast but was raised up to bring in the Beast.

It is the ” that is the Beast. And what does this Beast do?

At first he will try to make peace with many--- destroying them. Compromising their government for the sake of peace. Compromising their Religion, for their life.

Many people believe that this all takes place in the Mid-East. Sorry, it is world-wide. Here is the Beast as he tries to make peace.

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“when the transgressors are come to the full,”---this could not happen as long as people had some kind of decency. But we see decency be eroded away, little by little, by TV, Movies, Internet, books. And we really can't blame the young people. It is adults letting their evil desires loose that promotes these things. However, those other adults that know better than to look, listen, read these things are not moved away from their decency. It is then the young people that will suffer, because, they have not been taught, and they feel as if they have been liberated to do the things that their unregenerated heart wants to do. Therefore when the older ones are gone, whether they were Christian or not, but they had some sense of decency, then, “ the transgressors are come to the full.”

“a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up”

Not sure about the “ fierce countenance,” but I believe the “dark sentences” indicates, witchcraft.

“And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power:” Where does he get his power?

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“And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart,

Craft----deceit 20
deceitful 8
deceitfully 3
false 2
guile 2
feigned 1
craft 1
subtilty 1
treachery 1

from <H7411> (ramah) in the sense of deceiving; fraud :- craft, deceit (-ful, -fully), false, feigned, guile, subtilly, treachery

he will promise “peace and safety” no more wars---a Utopia. But it is a false peace, a sham, trickery, all the words above.

TO BE CONTINUED

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Thanks, E.

Nowadays, I don't see much rejoicing in persecution -- at least not the perceived persecution that some believers claim happens already. You know, people on the net disagreeing with them or laughing at them, things like that. ;) Complaining, yes -- all the time! Rejoicing, not so much.

To be fair, I know there is some real persecution, too. Church burnings, discrimination on the job, that sort of thing. Sad.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Ok i understand that noteveryone will agree with me on this but I'm ok with that. how do we know that those thngs are not manifestations of God's wrath?


Revelations 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 and they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Daniel 11:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Yeah i guess your right Daniel and John didnt know what they were talking about.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Of course Christians will be persecuted because of their faith.....just not in America. In the middle east, sure. In communist counties, probably.

The mass killing of Christians isn't going to happen in the USA...nor much of the rest of the world. If America ever becomes a theocracy, Christians will persecute Christians, but it's not going to become a theocracy so that's not going to happen.

Christians have the worse days of persecution long long behind them.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

On what do you base this belief of yours?

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Bump

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

If we don't know that God punished 250,000 people for their sins during the tsunami, what good did it do? No lesson was learned, such as being afraid of God or he'll kill people in mass quantities.

If we don't have a lesson from the mass killing, if we don't know, there's no lesson to learn.

Daniel and John weren't speaking of today, in my opinion. What would make you think they were speaking of 2013 rather than 1713 or 2113?

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Persecution may or may not come to the USA in my lifetime... but whether it does or not, doesn't mean it never will. I personally think it probably will... but that is just my opinion, not worth much. How the Lord decides to put all the pieces of the puzzle together in the end will remain a mystery... but I do believe those who are believers will be persecuted in some form or fashion in this nation soon.

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Some folks will not suffer any persecution.
2Tim. 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Seekerman wrote,
The only way, that Daniel and John were not talking about today, this generation, would be, if this is not the end-time. Which many would like to deny. I would too, if I didn't know better.

The vision of the beasts, representing the different nations of the end-time. And the dreadful Beast, that just about destroys the earth, and the 'little horn' that comes out of that Beast.

The Book of Daniel was sealed until this, the end time. That is why all theories put forth before this time, is just that, theories. And why now, because those that have eyes to see, can see these things happening right before our eyes.
The book of Revelation was not sealed. However, you can not understand the end-time in Rev. without understanding Daniel.

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This corresponds with Rev 12.

We live in the age of knowledge.

Daniel did not understand what he was seeing and writing. Neither did the Apostles. That is why they thought that Jesus might come back at any time, until John saw his visions. John understood some of what he was seeing, but yet Daniel had not been unsealed. But by then, the other apostles had been martyred.

I believe every Christian should study and know what time that they live in. And yes, God will give the understanding.
It is time for those that have been playing around, or backslide TO REPENT. If they don't want to make hell their home.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

TO CONTINUE
and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

“by peace shall destroy many:”

From my last Post,
And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart,

he will promise “peace and safety” no more wars---a Utopia. But it is a false peace, a sham, trickery, all the words above.

All of these beasts are connected. Beasts represent Countries or Governments. Horns represent power, as well as governments.

Now back to the dreadful and terrible beast.

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How long will the Beast prevail against them?
“Until the Ancient of days came,” Until the “first resurrection.”

That's pretty strong language. “shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.” The War machines now have the ability to do that.

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Watch the “Ten Horns” ----the world has already been divided into Ten Regions. Some are recognized, some have been proposed. (I'll put the 10 on here if anyone wants it)

Since the 10 horns cover the whole earth, the “little horn “ that subdues the 3, will come from the 10.

Now the question is, “Will the saints be persecuted?”

The Little Horn
The King with a fierce countenance.
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Worship the Beast? Because of the promise of 'Peace and safety” NO ONE CAN MAKE WAR AGAINST HIM, BECAUSE HE HAS DESTROYED ALL THAT CAME AGAINST HIM.
They will also worship the dragon, Devil, because they know that he gave power to the Beast.
Christian's will have been killed or will be, but this man has power. It will look like that Christians have no power, like when the jews told Jesus, “If you be the Son of God, come down off that cross.”

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We were taught, which is false, that the Beast/Antichrist, will deceive people by saying that he is Christ. No way. Do you think he is going to Blaspheme God, then turn around and say, “Oh by the way, I am Christ.” No, he will claim to have more power than God. And he will display great power, thru the magical power of the Devil.

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ALL NATIONS.

Christians have thought for a long time, “Oh no, it can't happen here.” While in China, many parts of the world, Christians are being killed every day. It reminds of the pride of the Jews in Jesus day, thinking they were so special, so they couldn't be wrong. Therefore Jesus had to be wrong.

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I'd be very sure, NOW, while we have time, that my name was written in the Lambs Book of Life, and not blotted out.

It's always Preterism for the win.

Re: Will American Christians be persecuted in your
 

Good point. And, by the above standard, which visible American church group is being godly enough to trigger persecution? Who takes a stand right up in the world's face to proclaim what they think God wants according to the Bible?

Westboro Baptist, for one. Of course, they don't count according to Oneness gospel, nor according to the gospel of being nice. So who is left? Who else can demonstrate their persecution as a result of living godly?

I mean due to important issues--long blue denim skirts don't count.

:icecream