Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

The essential goal of christianity is the evolution of consciousness until it fully expresses the love nature of Christ.

righteousness/virtue/good works flow naturally from a nature of love

agree? disagree? comments? criticisms? how does mainstream or conservative christianity measure up to this standard? Is there a different standard?

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Jesus came to seek and save that which was lost.

He came to restore fallen humanity to a relationship with himself.

that restoration included being born again of the water and spirit

being transformed by the renewing our of minds:

Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will. (Romans 12)

It also means producing the fruit of the Spirit in our lives:

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever[c] you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery;
20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions
21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.
(Galatians 5)

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

I don't disagree with your comment amanah, but I am talking about "essence". If you pursue and develop a nature of love, you will fulfill all that you have posted.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

historical/conservative christianity has attempted to achieve righteousness by means of human will and effort instead of pursuing the spirit of love and allowing righteousness to flow from the spirit of love.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

I don't think we can manifest the fruit of the Spirit, w/o having the Spirit.
I think some religions attempt to manifest the fruit w/o actually having the Spirit.
While the terminology of religions may sound similar, there are very real differences.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

:thumbsup

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

good point amanah, not that I disagree with you, I am not sure, but let me think aloud.

God breathed his spirit and created the soul of man in creation. man is composed of body, soul and spirit. God is omnipresent and therefore the spiritual essence of every human being. every human being has a measure of faith and a conscience of right and wrong. Ghandi, Mother Teresa, Martin Luther King all practiced love without being baptized with the holy ghost speaking in tongues. spirit baptism wasn't even present in historical christianity for 1,500 years. So someone that doesn't have the holy ghost baptism cannot demonstrate the fruit of the spirit? my reason tends to disagree. Holy spirit baptism must be the assurance of salvation and not the means of it, unless historical christians for the last 1500 years are all damned.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

spirit baptism wasn't even present in historical christianity for 1,500 years.


Where did it go? It was poured out on the day of pentecost @2,000 years ago, and I thought it's been around as a gift every since.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

if you read about pentecostal history, you will not see written evidence of speaking in tongues during church history except for the apostolic age and the modern pentecostal movement that began in early 1900 in azuza california. that is not to say that the holy spirit wasn't moving or working in the church or that there wasn't a tradition of "mystical" experiences like the quakers and pietists, but the modern idea of holy ghost baptism with speaking in tongues was not known throughout church history. so the question is can people throughout history demonstrate the fruit of the spirit without being spirit baptized in the modern pentecostal sense?

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

so the question is can people throughout history demonstrate the fruit of the spirit without being spirit baptized in the modern pentecostal sense?


My opinion...no. It's also my opinion that the same Spirit baptism as occured on the day of pentecost has been available and experienced without a 1900 year gap. The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

That said, I have seen many people demonstrate more love and compassion than some of my brothers and sisters in the faith, who have been baptized with the Holy Ghost.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

phareztamar, i do not doubt that the holy spirit has been working in the church, my only point is that there is no evidence in written history of spirit baptism with tongues, except for the early church and azusa in 1901. why doesn't augustine, aguinas, martin luther, john calvin, john edwards etc, none of these men mention spirit baptism with tongues. so even though the upc teaches spirit baptism is necessary for salvation, it cannot explain how christians were saved throughout history without spirit baptism. just look it up for yourself.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Dedicated Mind,

pray forgive my slowness and lack of thoroughness in my response. I'm currently at work, charged with keeping millions of dollars worth of machinery running. (just finished changing out a tore-up stearic acid gearbox). So I haven't had much time to look it up myself, though I will. But I did find an interesting piece titled: CYBERJOURNAL FOR PENTECOSTAL-CHARISMATIC RESEARCH...WATER BAPTISM AND SPIRIT BAPTISM IN THE CHURCH FATHERS by Martin Parmentier. Admittedly, it only centers on the first 8 centuries after pentecost, but it is an interesting read.

I believe that for a person to be born again, they must receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. This is the new birth. The fact that very few in history have experienced this new birth...and perhaps fewer still have written about it, should not shock us. He did say, few there be that find it. But thank you for an interesting topic. GBU

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

The essential goal of Christianity is to bring as many humans as possible into the family of God.

The essential goal of every Christian as Christians is to become more and more like Him.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

:thumbsup

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

I agree with Prax's statement. The essentials goals are to love God and love people, which, in application, is to please God and lead others to Him.

Human beings are capable of being good to an extent and making positive choices, but without God, the "love" will always be flawed.

One of the most deceptive ideas is that human beings are essentially good. Human beings are essentially sinful, and must fight their sin nature in order to be good. Only by walking after the Spirit can one truly deny the lusts of the flesh, therefore anyone who doesn't walk after the Spirit will follow the lusts of his flesh. E.g., their love cannot be perfect, no matter how many supplemental good works they present to the world.

Being "good" doesn't make you godly, it doesn't mean you are filled with God's Spirit, and it doesn't mean you are one of His. If you want to know whether or not you are His, ask yourself whether or not you obey His commandments. Anyone who says they love God, but they disobey Him, is a liar. The love of God is perfected in people who obey His commandments. (I John 2:3-5)

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

not sure what you mean by the bolded. how were people "one of his" between 325 A.D. and 1901 when there is not a single shred of evidence that people were "filled with God's spirit" in the modern pentecostal sense? so gandhi, martin luther king, dorothy day, and mother teresa are burning in hell because they are not upc? can you explain what exactly are we to obey when you say "love is perfected through obedience"? to pursue love and abide in love and do love is to obey and "walk after the spirit". what else is there?

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

To make disciples which entails sharing the gospel and becoming like the Master.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Theosis.

http://www.theopedia.com/Theosis

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

interesting concept, i believe is present in eastern orthodox. can you recommend any books that develop this concept as a spiritual practice? cynthia bourgeault delves in bits and pieces with a mystical spiritual practice, as thomas merton and thomas keating before her. i recently became aware of a catholic from india named anthony de mello. he has a book called "the way of love" which i believe teaches this concept from a christian/indian perspective of awareness/consciousness, but i haven't read it yet.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

http://orthodoxinfo.com/general/theosis.aspx

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2002/02/02_02_a1.pdf

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2002/02/02_02_a3.pdf

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2002/02/02_02_sd.pdf

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/2002/02/02_02_wr.pdf

http://www.affcrit.com/pdfs/1996/03/96_03_a3.pdf

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

God became man... that man might become God.

Not that a man might become "a god"... but that man as a whole might become so full of God that we lose our identity and spiritual individuality in Him. God desires to be the all in all.

Christianity is therefore the hope of restored relationship with God through atonement.
Christianity is the hope of becoming united with God, one spirit, with the Lord through the Holy Spirit.
Christianity is God taking on humanity to elevate humanity into the divine essence.
Christianity is the hope of becoming one with God, and thereby fully realizing our place in Christ as sons and daughters of God.
Christianity is the realization of God flowing through us to manifest Himself in us.
Christianity is realizing that we are all but branches of the True Vine (Jesus Christ)... the church is one organism with God through Christ.

Therefore, our "holiness" emanates from the Father who dwells within us... it is not based on behavior. It's based on our state of being. We are holy as we surrender to allowing Him to manifest Himself in us... conforming us into the very image and likeness of Jesus Himself.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

I have no idea who was filled with the Spirit and who wasn't in the centuries when nothing was recorded (and neither do you), but I have faith that God knows who His people are. Being one of His has nothing to do with being "UPC", and it's asinine to characterize scriptural principles and commandments in that manner.

I also have faith that God is merciful to people who were/are sincere but ignorant of scripture, and as far as believers are concerned, God is their final judge. But unbelievers? Are you trying to say that unbelievers can be saved through good works? It's a kind thought, but not in keeping with the Word of God.

John 8:24 "...if you do not believe that I am he, you will indeed die in your sins."

His word and commandments.

I John 2:3-5

"And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected:hereby know we that we are in him."

No, not exactly, because people have their own ideas about what "love" is, and our flesh will eventually corrupt whatever goodness we attempt. You can't flip it around. You follow after the Spirit, and the lusts of the flesh will be squelched in your life and the fruits of the Spirit will follow--which includes the love of God. If you try to *manually* produce the fruits of the Spirit in your life without including God in the equation, you will fall flat on your face.

It seems that you've equated good works with godliness and salvation and that is anti-scriptural. Sorry, Charlie, but good works don't save you.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Behold, I show you a mystery...

1 John 2:2 (ESV)
He (Jesus) is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the sins of the whole world.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

who is talking about manually producing good works as a means of salvation? i said the essence of christianity is to produce the love nature of christ in us. obviously if i said the love nature of christ, i am referring to the biblical definition of love.it is also evident that people like ghandhi, martin luther king, dorothy day and mother teresa expressed the biblical definition of love and that they did it as an expression of the spirit of God that is resident in every human because god is resident in every human and because god is love therefore those people expressed the spirit of god without ever having been baptized in jesus name or spoken in tongues. good works as an expression of god's spirit of love residing in you does save you according to matthew 25 and 1cor 13.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

So you believe all human beings are already filled with God's Spirit?

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

not sure what you mean to imply with that question. god breathed into adam and man became a living soul. every man has a conscience of right and wrong at his essence. john 1 says that the word is the light that lighteth every man that cometh into the world. in him we live and move and have our being. yes god is present in every human. that does not mean that every human has the holy ghost. i am pentecostal. i have received the hg and spoken in tongues but i really don't understand what is the qualitative difference between someone who has the holy ghost and someone who doesn't. the hg leads, teaches, comforts, assures of salvation; but i still feel human with passion, desire and emotion. I don't feel super power, super spiritual, superior knowledge or insight unless the hg is leading me through intention, desire and passion to study and learn. maybe you can tell me how you think your life is different from a non holy ghost christian? even with that said, god can be leading, guiding non holyghost christians and all people with a sincere heart, wanting to do right.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Pursuing the spirit of love and allowing righteousness to flow from the spirit of love is an act of 'human will and effort'.

God's 'goal' is to have a people who express his nature and character for eternity. Man messed up, so therefore God redeems man, transforms him by his power. The transformation is not yet complete (and will not be complete until Judgement Day. And the transformation of man is itself only the beginning of God's purposes for mankind.

God is not interested in any 'evolution of man's consciousness' or any such thing. There is no evolution about it. There is transformation. It is abrupt and sudden - conversion is an abrupt, sudden, 'crisis experience'. Regeneration is an abrupt, sudden 'crisis experience'. Resurrection will most definitely be an 'abrupt, sudden, crisis experience'. And Judgement Day will without question be an abrupt, sudden, crisis experience for all mankind.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

I'm not implying anything. I'm asking for clarification, because you stated: "...an expression of the spirit of God that is resident in every human because god is resident in every human and because god is love therefore those people expressed the spirit of god without ever having been baptized in jesus name or spoken in tongues. good works as an expression of god's spirit of love residing in you does save you...."

Your statement implies that every human being is already filled with the Spirit of God, and that when they express God's "spirit of love" through good works, it does save them. I'm asking if I'm understanding you correctly. Is that what you're saying?

So you believe that God's Spirit and the Holy Ghost are two different spirits?

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

They did not have the Spirit of Christ and they did not express the biblical definition of love. Here is how we know if anyone loves God -

Deu 11:1
Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, alway.

Deu 30:16
In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it.

Jhn 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jhn 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

1Jo 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


2Jo 1:6
And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Is this a trick question? LOL We are on an apostolic forum. the holy ghost is a distinct soulish manifestation of God's spirit which is also the presence/ghost/soul of christ.

don't dodge the question. how is your life experience qualitatively different, with the holy ghost, from another sincere christian who does not have the holy ghost? i'm really interested.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

pursuing and allowing can also be construed as the work of god if he is the initiator and motivator. your second paragraph is utter nonsense. paul talks about being babes in christ, growing to the fulness and stature of christ, renewing the mind etc all of these imply a growth in awareness, knowledge, wisdom or evolution of consciousness.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

and what are his commandments? to love god and love your neighbor as yourself is to fulfill the law. read the thread and stop repeating jibberish.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

The above statements would be with regards to the Law given to Israel, not necessarily to the NT church.

Let's look closely at Christ's point in this passage... Jesus continues on through chapter 15...

John 15:7-12 (ESV)
7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.
12 “This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you."

Christ's commandments to the church are distinctly related to the universal law of loving God with all one's being... and demonstrating that love by loving others.

John actually explains this well...

2 John 1:4-6 (ESV)
4 I rejoiced greatly to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as we were commanded by the Father. 5 And now I ask you, dear lady—not as though I were writing you a new commandment, but the one we have had from the beginning—that we love one another. 6 And this is love, that we walk according to his commandments; this is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, so that you should walk in it.

It's all about loving God and loving others. No legalistic requirements are set down.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

So in short... if one loves God with all of their being... they will demonstrate that love by loving others as themselves in a sacrificial manner that reflects Christ's own love.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Now... a legalist will seek to list every possible teaching and commandment Jesus ever spoke and require that of the believer. However, what they fail to see is that Jesus lived and taught... under the Law. Many things that Jesus expounded upon and commanded were with relation to His audience living under the Law. So one has to be VERY VERY careful in trying to map out Christ's "commandments" in a legalistic manner.

The Law of Christ:

1.) Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength...
2.) Love others as yourself.

These two laws are universal in any and every possible context and/or circumstance.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

Jibberish?

Nice.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

I quoted Jesus speaking to his disciples, he affirmed the truth that if we love Him we will keep his commandments. Is He not God?



The scriptures I posted show HOW to love God. Simply saying 'love God and your neighbor' explains nothing.

To love our neighbor one does not murder, bear false witness against them, covet their stuff, commit adultery, steal, etc etc. In other words, the commandments of God relating to our interactions with other people define how 'love' works itself out in various situations and under various circumstances. The commandments of God give us the best, most expedient and wisest manner of 'loving God and our neighbor'. Thus, it is written 'love is the fulfilling of the law'.

This does not mean we can 'love' and do away with God's commandments. If it did, we could 'love our neighbor' and yet commit adultery. Adultery is a sin because God said it is a sin. Why did He say it is forbidden? Because it is not an act of LOVE, it is an act of selfishness.

Rom 13:9
For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Here Paul expressly declares and teaches what I just said - that the commandments of God are comprehended in the saying 'love they neighbor'. Love is not a replacement for the commandments of God, they are part and parcel of love.


What is with this bandying of the terms 'legalistic' and 'legalism' whenever the commandments of God are mentioned? Legalism is not even a biblical word.

Legalism means one of two things - either it means attempting to be justified under the terms of the old covenant (which will not happen for anyone), or it is a term used erroneously as an emotive slogan in opposition to any call for actual and/or specific obedience.

Is it not commanded that we love our neighbor? Then how is THAT itself not 'legalism', if by legalism is meant a demand for obedience to a command of God?

All the commandments, statutes, judgements, and ordinances of God can be related to the 'Big Ten'. They serve as 'explanatory' dicta on those 'Big Ten'. And the Big Ten teach us how to love God and to love our neighbor.

God did not leave it to us to just figure out what is expected, otherwise everyone would have occasion to complain against God on the basis of equity at the Judgement. 'You said love your neighbor, the woman was my neighbor, I loved her, we slept together. How can I be guilty of anything?'

To which God may justly reply, 'It's spelled out for you, it's called FORNICATION and it is identified in the Word as SIN (aka CRIME).'

God will not say 'well, you have this in-built sense of right and wrong, and you should have listened to your inner voice', because the hypothetical fornicator may very well say in reply 'my inner voice said only that she was sweet and beautiful and she wants me and I want her and no harm no foul!!!!!'

Man by his wisdom did not know God. Nor does man by his wisdom know what love actually is. Thus the need for Revelation, ie the Word, and the public display of the Word in action in the life of Jesus Christ.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

So, all humans 'evolve' from child to adult?

Talk about 'utter nonsense'. GROWTH and 'evolution' are not the same thing.

But anyway, I leave you to your 'jibberish'.

:thumbsup

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

i am not denying the importance of the bible, but man's wisdom did play a role in the writing of the bible. inspired word of god is not the same as dictated word of god. so we are relying in part on man's definition of love when we read the bible with the aid of god. but the essence of love which is selfless giving, is not unique to christianity. there is the yoga of love in hinduism, the path of the bodhistava in budhism. the sufi way of love in islam. a strong ethic of devotion in shinto. i have not studied all of these paths, but i would doubt that you have either, so to claim that the bible has the exclusive claim on the definition of love is a bit premature. love is a universal truth that exists with or without religious exposition.

Re: Essential Goal of Christianity???
 

That Inspiration is not Dictation does NOT in turn mean it was written by Man's wisdom

BTW the bible does not actually say it was inspired. Rather it was God breathed

Further Paul argues what the preached was NOT man's wisdom

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power,
1Co 2:5 so that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
1Co 2:6 But, we speak wisdom among those who are perfect; yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the rulers of this world, that come to nothing.
1Co 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, which God has hidden, predetermining it before the world for our glory;


1Co 2:12 But we have not received the spirit of the world, but the Spirit from God, so that we might know the things that are freely given to us by God.
1Co 2:13 These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches, but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
1Co 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.