Thailand Oneness
 

I posted this praise report in the Tab as well. Anyone born in the 40's, 50's or 60's that is familiar with the UPC missions programs remembers the Nigh family. Attended the Tulsa Bible college and then Conqueror's Bible College in the early 50's. Pastored in Morton, Washington and then an instructor at Conqueror's for several years before leaving for Germany being appointed by the FMB as the Missionary to the European Military District (succeeding Bill Glaser). His second appointment was to the German nationals, where he missioned until the mid-1980's. His church in Wiesbaden was the Schloss Freudenberg, also known as the "Lighthouse". It contained a bible school, book store short-term housing for visiting missionaries and was the largest national oneness church with the highest per capita giving in Europe. He became a German to the Germans by learning to speak the language to in turn disciple national pastors to reach their own people. In addition to translating the book of Philippians into German, Bro. Nigh translated several pentecostal choruses into the native tongue.
If anyone is familiar with the PAJC takeover of the Northwest in the 70s and 80s they will understand the mindset at HQ that refused to re-appoint the Nighs to Germany as a PIM. He returned anyway, as an unsupported missionary with the successes I mentioned above.

On Monday I returned from a short-term missionary trip to Chiang Mai, Thailand. I had been invited by Br. Nigh to join him in a barnstorming trip from southern Thailand to Northern Thailand into Burma.
Along with three day seminars for local pastors in Korat (So Thailand) and in Burma (Tachilek), we ministered in 6 different churches thoughout Thailand while on a compressed schedule. During the second half of the schedule Steve Yadon, pastor from Pocatello, Idaho joined us.
Those that attended our seminars represent hundreds of believers, from those in Kohn Buri, Korat, Tahkham, Doi-Saket, Hu-Ya, Mae-Sai and the Burmese border city of Tachilek. LCI also distributed free New Testaments w/Psalms and Proverbs in the Lahu dialect of Burmese and books written by Br Nigh translated into the local dialects on the nature of (the Christian) God.
The mission of LCI is to reach, teach and disciple national pastors to reach their own. LCI has also built a state of the art conference center in Chiang Mai. The Logos Conference Center (LCC) is completely paid for. It is a two story building with apartments and dorm rooms on the second floor with separate male and female showers. The first floor has a large kitchen facility classrooms providing seating for 100-300 with an additional small classroom adjacent to it.
It was a privilege to teach and preach with Br Nigh, a long-time Oneness (former UPC) missionary. The doctrine he preaches is apostolic in every sense of the word. The Nighs have served the Lord honorably over the years. They have raised up a generation of National preachers in Germany and in Thailand for the name of Jesus Christ, of which I am an eyewitness.

The Kingdom of God, Jesus' name baptism and the Oneness of God is being preached in Thailand and Burma in spite of opposition from our brothers in the Lord in the United Pentecostal confines.
Politics never seems to end:
National pastors connected with the Nighs have been informed that their brethren in the United Pentecostal Church are not to associate with the Nighs or their sponsoring organization, Logos Communications International or with the Logos Conference Center in Chiang Mai.
IN SPITE of the spintering tactics by UPC FMD HQ, the church of Jesus Christ in Thailand is growing.

God is MOVING in SE Asia.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Thank you for this report.
Too bad that some in the Body of Christ do not recognize others in that same body.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Your anointed prayer helped me greatly, brother.

I am surprised with the amount of visitors on AFF that there haven't been more comments.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Great report, Sabby.

So thankful for the Nigh's. I remember the name, and it seems that I heard them preach, but I'm afraid I have forgotten more than I know.

Hate to hear about the Politics. I remember, when I first realized that politics was in the church, it made me very angry. (about 40 yrs ago) It seems when politics gets in, it takes over.

Lord, help our brothers and sisters to see that this is wrong.

The TRUE MESSAGE is all that counts.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

The reasons the Nighs lost their PIM appointment after being on the field for 12years (they then returned to Germany without PIM support for 4 more years) were two-fold.
The most obvious was that they leaned PCI, as did most of the NW at the time-although Oregon and Washington was changing rapidly.
The other reason was his eschatology. He teaches that "no man knows" the day or the hour of the Lord's return and uses the words of the greatest authority in the New Testament-the Lord Jesus Himself- to prove his point. That didn't sit well with the Foreign Missions Board, choosing to align themselves with Zionists, Scofield-believers, Baxter and Treece.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

I don't think anyone knows whe He returns? What does Treece teach?

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

I don't know what this is supposed to mean since Baxter is a post trib and Scofield believers are pre trib. Then again Im not aware of ANY Apostolic preacher who says they know the day Christ returns.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Wayne Nigh's experience was similar in some ways to what happened to Larry Smith.
The difference was that 30 years ago it involved the largest oneness European church operation on the planet. Europeans were being baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost. It was the largest oneness Christian bookstore in Europe. It was closed down within two years after the Nighs left Germany.

Sis Alvear,
Marvin Treece was the forerunner of prophecy seminars 30 years ago using colorful overhead projector images. Irvin Baxter has better technology and markets his material very well, but it is essentially the same material.
Nigh's eschatology refutes efforts to date the coming of the Lord, which is what every false prophet does. Whether Pre or Post trib, people are taught to look for "signs" of the Lord's return. Jesus made it very clear that the only sign would be as Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights, so He would be buried and raise again after three days and nights. Everything else is sensationalism.

Here are a couple of anecdotes:
I received a copy of an end-time bible study from ABI in 1988. It was being taught at the school The title of the study was, "88 Reasons Why Jesus Will Return in 1988". All the reasons listed were based upon Zionism, the return of the nation of Israel, increased social problems, etc along with conjecture of where in Europe the anti-Christ would arise from.

From the fall of 1977 until the spring of 1978, I was at Evangel Church in Portland where Paul Dugas taught -based upon the recreation of the nation of Israel - and the formation of the European Union, that the anti-Christ will soon be revealed. This was a form of dating the return of the Lord. The idea itself that there is a "trigger" for a countdown whether from a Pre or Post viewpoint is derived with some modifications from Scofield eschatology that the UPC and many Pentecostals still hold to.

That Br Nigh would lose a PIM appointment after ESTABLISHING the work in Germany showed the carnality and violence to scripture that his brothers in the Lord engaged in. Those that he thought were friends turned their backs on him. Bible college students from Conqueror's Bible College that interned under him (their names have been mentioned in other threads on AFF) and are missionaries themselves and those that have worked at HQ turned their backs on him. Preachers who would hug his neck would slime him behind his back. Br Nigh told me that it was (during the time of his inquisition) "like swimming with sharks". Brothers that he had gone to bible school with, played softball with, former friends, turned their backs on him and even worse, participated in having his appointment removed.
The "sharks" in Bangkok may just be contentious or jealous, maybe just a little insecure. They won't stop the growth of the Kingdom of God.

Those familiar with UPC by-laws in the '80s will remember that there was zero tolerance for anything that resembled partial-preterism or historicism. The doctrine was (it might still be) Pre Trib, Pre Mill - with some allowances given the post-tribs. The FMD made end-time views a test of fellowship, and in Br Nigh's case a test of a calling.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

It is sin, to turn our backs on bros and sisters because of a view on End Times. If they are teaching false doctrine on salvation, there can't be much communication, without an argument, but our view on end time, can change.

As far as signs, God gave us many signs, and I believe we are to know the day that we are living in.
I believe that Jesus would say to us, what He told the Pharisees.

It is true, we won't know the DAY or the HOUR. But the children of the day, (that know the truth) will not be in darkness. Noah knew a week before the flood came.

Who will the 'day of the Lord” come to----'as a thief in the night?” Notice it is THEY and THEM, that are in darkness.

:.

Watch and be sober, means more than watch the sky. We are to know the times that we live in.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

So its about preterism.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Just for the sake of clarity what exactly do the terms "PIM", "PCI", "Zionists" and "Scofield-believers" mean in your post?

If the "Scofield-believers" refers to C.I. Scofield of the Scofield bible fame I have researched the subject and he was a Freemason Anglican-Catholic infiltrator who was one of the biggest deceivers of the pre-trib movement in the 19th century. The Scofield bible was funded by the Freemasons. From at least the late 1860's after the Civil War when Scofield linked up in Kansas with Mason John J. Ingalls (from a prominent Jewish family in New England) who got Scofield accepted into the Lotos Club (Masionic group) in New York City to his death in 1921 on Long Island NY he was a dedicated Mason who did their bidding to destroy the Protestant movement that sought to expose the Vatican/Jesuits.
See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._I._Scofield for individuals/groups cited.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Glad to hear the good report for Thailand. :thumbsup


{We've lived in our neighborhood close to 18 years. In the last few years nearly every home sold has been to a Thai family. Just an interesting trend.}

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Michael,

Another issue the FMB had with Br Nigh was the German nationals were growing facial hair. His position, which he iterated to the Foreign Mission's Board was that he was not called to Americanize new believers. He did not require German men to be clean shaven. The Board believed he should teach them otherwise. He took as much heat over facial hair than anything else

Whether Nigh's teaching is preterist or not, it in no way justifies the way he was treated. It is probably closer to being partial-preterist/historicist in nature. What part of what Jesus said is not clear? He said, "NO MAN KNOWS". No matter what scriptures from the epistles or Revelation you cobble together, they do not over ride or supercede the Lord's words. He said very plainly, "NO MAN KNOWS". All scripture is given by inspiration of God and there is NO GREATER authority in the written word than the words of the Lord Jesus Himself. He said, "NO MAN KNOWS".

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Good research, Pilgrim. Didn't Scofield also have a hand in publishing the McDonald dream of the Rapture?

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Thank you sister. Yes, that is correct.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Sabby, him being a PCI 1-stepper did not help his case.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

In the UPCI, a PIM was a Partner In Missions, someone that pledged financially to support the missionary while on the field. Most PIM support came from local churches although some came from individuals.

The two church organizations that merged to become the "United" Pentecostal Church were the PCI (Pentecostal Church International) and the PAJC (Pentecostal Assemby of Jesus Christ). The PCI taught preached Oneness and Acts 2:38, but differed from the PAJC in their interpretation of baptism. They did not (by and large) teach that the act of baptism was salvational, but done out of obedience to the command to be baptized providing a good conscience towards God. The PCI was more missions oriented than their PAJC brethren.

AZionist is one that believes that the nation of Israel (the Jewish race) is God's chosen people and teach that the temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt AND that God will return to them to be their personal God during the end times. Zionists believe the church is an interim Bride (a parenthetical church on an end-times timeline) for God until the arrival of the "end of the age" and the Jews are once again restored as God's own. This, in spite of the words of our Lord Jesus speaking of the Jews fulfilling the role of prophet murderers.

Scofield? You've done some research on it.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Thank you for taking time to explain those terms. I included the Scofield term as well because you wrote "Scofield-believers" and I wanted to be sure it was the same individual since I knew I was going to include my research on C. I. Scofield in my post. It's surprising to me that many UPC/Apostolic folks still believe that heresy.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Goat, you are absolutely right, but gives his comment about swimming among sharks some context. Once upon a time (at the merger) the PAJC contingent of the UPCI could fellowship this difference of opinion for the name of Jesus and the cause of missions. Did I say missions?
It is no surprise that by 1980 the majority of UPC PIM-supported foreign missionaries were graduates of Conqueror's Bible College. The reason? Most leaned PCI, were more tolerant of how to interpret Acts 2:38 and preached Jesus Christ and the grace of God, thus more suited to the mission field.

"God didn't call me to Americanize the Germans, but to disciple them to Jesus Christ" N. Wayne Nigh

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Note the error presented here. Not saying its deliberate but nonetheless error. This is what happens when men don't rightly divide the word of truth.

Where is the NO MAN KNOWS scripture located?

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Matt 24:37

So does anyone consider the CONTEXT? What day is Yeshua Christ talking about?

Let us examine the full context.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: 33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Matt. 24:29-36

Is it not obvious the DAY Christ is referring to? Just read BACK from verse 36 to verse 31.

Volia! There is THE DAY Yeshua was talking about! Its not such a great mystery after all to those who have read the Lords words in Matthew and notice their CONTEXT.

The day of which no man knows is AFTER THE GREAT TRIBULATION. Again read the CONTEXT!

Yeshua taught no one will know the day or the hour of HIS POST TRIBULATION COMING!

No one will know the day or the hour BUT we know when it will NOT BE! It will NOT be until after the tribulation Christ spoke about a mere FIVE VERSES from the one that says OF THAT DAY........the day in verses 30-31.

The day of Christs coming and gathering together his elect!

So correction has been given. The full context has been shown.

Bottom line. No one will know the day or hour of Christs coming. We do know that day will NOT happen until the end of the great tribulation.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

That's one of the problems with UPC. Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Like hypocrites they teach from the OT that a woman sins by wearing "pants". At the same time the OT teaches men not to shave their beards while they refute this. If wearing pants is sin for a woman shaving is sin for men. The UPC is not made up of dummies. They must see this. Yet because of the ties to traditions of men they refuse to repent.

None of this excuses distorting the teaching of the second coming of Christ.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Amen, Michael. The key is, we won't know the DAY or The HOUR, that is bringing it down too close to call. But it is clear in those scriptures as well as others, it is after---GREAT TRIBULATION.

One of the great dangers of teaching, the 'imminent return of Christ” is, when people that have been taught this, see the Great Tribulation, happening, they will say, as Jesus told us they would, “My Lord delayeth His coming.”

.

(To Michael, I gave my son, again, your book to mail for me. over a week ago, I see it's still in his van. He's had company and the holidays. I'll see that it gets mailed this week.)

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Thanks Sister!

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

A compilation of distortions and broad brushing in order to begin to set up "preterism" as being true.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Mike,

I will keep this thread on topic. It's not about YOUR eschatology, it is about the move of God in Thailand.

We can agree to disagree. When you can find a single scripture that speaks of a singular 3 and a half year or 7 year tribulation, which you call the Great Tribulation, I will be open to your point of view. You are the one using a broad brush by labeling what you obviously do not understand and are deconstructing what Jesus himself said.

He said He will come again. We are still awaiting that return. He said no one will know the day or hour because He will return when the church world least expects it - otherwise known as a thief in the night.

He said BE READY. He said, DO SOMETHING with what you have received from Him.

When you see the living conditions and know of the massacres of believers that have happened in places like Burma for example, you might understand what the Lord meant by tribulation.

If you want to start another thread on your Scofield Theology, have at it. My thread is about the move of the Spirit of God in SE Asia.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

About the move of God?

As if the move of God was to promote preterism.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

I don't know if you are being intentionally obnoxious or not, but no one is promoting "preterism", as you say.

The hundreds coming to the Lord in Germany and Thailand are believers that have REPENTED, been BAPTIZED in the name of JESUS CHRIST, and have received the BAPTISM of the HOLY SPIRIT. This is an apostolic move of God, my friend. I'm not going to dance to your music.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Sabby you are so right about the move of God in SE Asia, when we were in California a few years ago, we were part of a nondenominational Charismatic church called Water of Life and it gets worse it is Trinitarian :heeheehee

The pastor and teams from the church were going into Burma and Thailand and were buidling ophranges and schools and giving out tents and blankets during the rainy season. They were just loving kids whose arrms and legs were blown off because of all the land mines in the area. The church supported them with food and such all year long.

Sabby they were casting out demons and seeing miracles, did I mention he was Trinitarian? :heeheehee People were coming to know Christ and His power and His Salvation. God is moving and it is an exciting time to be alive in Christ. Friend I love it!

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Well, I do not hold in any way a Preterism veiw however I would never do anything to hinder the work of God anywhere in the world. I rejoice that people are being baptized and are receiving the Holy Ghost.

Re: Thailand Oneness
 

Well I don't want to seem to be trying to hinder a move of God. I do pray for the nations and a few weeks back prayed for Burma and Thailand.

Nonetheless the original poster made an issue about these two things.

PCI doctrine. Believe me I have never been in the UPC so it has nothing to do with their politics. But as far as 3 step vs 1 step which he made an issue of I do think it is error.

Not that God cannot move in that. That's the way I came in myself. Everyone begins with faith. I have ministered and fellowshipped with many kinds believers, many Trinitarians.

Issue two he brought up was to link, Zionist, Schofield and Post trib together as if its all one thing. So I don't think its promoting a move of God to denounce and lump together as one these groups in order to then promote preterism.

If it had just been about people being saved in Thailand I would not have questioned it but rather rejoiced. Peace, Michael.