Matthew 7:21-23
 

Matthew 7:21-23,

Please share your take. In particular, I am looking for input on whether these souls, turned away at the Judgment, were Spirit-filled men and/or woman (by calling Jesus Lord [See 1 Corinthians 12:3], performing gifts of the Spirit, etc.)

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

Yes, I believe they were.
Believers, not filled with the Spirit, might, because they believe God, pray and once in a while see a miracle. But the gifts of the Spirit, are given to those that are filled with the Spirit. However, the “gifts and callings of God are without repentance” therefore, I believe a person can receive the gift of healing, prophecy, rtc. And backslide and still have the gift, still talk in tongues, preform healing's, etc

That is why we can not follow a man, (signs) just because he has the gifts of the Spirit.

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

It is my understanding in reading this passage that these are believers and are those who are Spirit-filled. As you referenced 1 Corinthians, Paul tells us no man can call Jesus Lord but by the Holy Spirit.

In order to understand who Jesus is talking about in verses 21-23, you must grasp the entire chapters context. He begins by talking about not judging others, and talking about the hypocrites that point out the flaws in their brothers while having larger ones of their own. He then tells us how ask and be kind to one another (showing us the ultimate love of our Father in verse 11).

He tells us how to watch out for these folks who He condemns in verse 21-23 starting at verse 15. The Greek word for "false prophets" means someone who acts the part, but inwardly have the wrong motives and then tells us to watch for their fruit they bear. Then these people (who are Spirit-filled) will be met in judgment by God for outwardly they did everything they thought was right, but inwardly they were corrupt and evil.

Jesus lets us know how to avoid this in verse 23 when He tells them He never "knew" them. That Greek word comes from the Hebrew word for being intimate between a man and a woman; Jesus lets us know it is about relationship with Him because as Paul states we can speak with tongues of men and angels, but if we have not charity inside of us, it is worth nothing.

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

How can it be that the ones whom Jesus will respond to their pleas by telling them He never knew them be construed as referring to Spirit-filled saints?

Perhaps I'm "all wet" in my thinking here, but it seems, to me at least, that Jesus could NOT tell someone He NEVER knew them, especially when considering the fact that He DID know them when He baptized them with His Spirit. That is, how is it possible for our Lord to baptize one with His Spirit in the absence of NOT first knowing them?

When we read the words recorded in Luke 13:22-25, it is disclosed that Jesus responded to the inquiry concerning what the inquirer apparently construed from His remarks to imply that only a few would be saved, by stating the very same thing He said as it is written in Matthew 7:13-23 ...

"Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto them, I KNOW YOU NOT WHENCE YE ARE: ..."

Here in Luke's writings, and by using different words, is not Jesus asserting the very same thing that He did as written by Matthew? I think so!

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

I agree. But what I don't understand, is, "I never knew you." Never?

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

I think of our Lord's use of this word in expressing this matter as I might express the relations I enjoy with my family as opposed to others. You see, I KNOW my family members on an intimate level, but not so with my neighbors. So I don't construe our Lord's use of the word "never" as implying that He did not know "of" them, rather He did not know them on that intimate level which He demands of those who desire to enter heaven's domain.

Lest we forget, it is to these that He is speaking, that is, the "many ... who will seek to enter in, and shall not be able" because they never had that intimate relationship with Him as do we to whom He has given of His Spirit.

Does this "make sense"? I pray that it does.

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

Votive, I guess I can answer this one rather quickly. I believe there are multitudes who can claim to have cast out devils and performed wonderful works in the name of Christ. This doesn't make is so….

Also, I do not think the 1 Corinthians passage speaks of everyone who vocalizes the Lordship of Christ as being empowered to do so by the Spirit. Demons called him Lord and they were certainly not Spirit-filled or empowered by the Spirit to do so in any way. I do believe that no one can say Jesus is Lord "from a genuine heart of faith" without being empowered by the Spirit to do so. The confession "of faith" is itself empowered by the Spirit. This is one of the reasons I hold that an individual who confesses Christ in true faith is to be considered "saved" and welcomed into the Christian community at large.

Christ said it was upon this rock - which I hold to be the confession of his person - that he was to build his Church. The man who believes with his heart unto righteousness [before God] is to then confess with his mouth unto salvation [before his peers]. The Church is to be built upon a confession of Christ. Only those who say that Jesus is Lord from a heart of faith are to be welcomed into the Church.

Sorry, I must run….. enjoy your evening

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

I think I am understanding you correctly, Lafon.

How do you account for the claims made by the petitioner?

They call Jesus "Lord".

They claim to have prophesied and performed the miraculous in His name.

Is this a false claim, as Adino suggests, or were these people once upon a time enabled by the Holy Spirit to do such things, but then became shipwreck and castaway in terms of the long-view of their salvation?

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

I see how it may be perceived that the claims were false; that the claimants were liars. But the story is presented as though the claims are factual/accurate (which makes the teaching more alarming, I might add).

The Lord doesn't call them liars and falsifiers, or rebuke them for saying they used His name when they did no such thing.

The Lord rather seems to be making the case that even though what they claimed was true, their personal conduct, by the end of their lives', no matter how they may have been used in temporary situations, was not good enough, since they hadn't done all the will of the Father, even though it's God's will that people prophesy, cast out devils, and perform miracles.

Regarding 1 Corinthians 12:3, it may be so that many who presume to call Jesus Lord, aren't really doing so by an enabling of the Holy Spirit through faith. They are, as called in Scripture, false brethren.

But what then, if, just if, their deeds actually were Holy Spirit enabled.

Cannot some begin in the faith, be used by God, but then fall into error, distortion, damnable heresy, and/or immorality sufficient to lose salvation, even though they had once procured it by grace unto regeneration?

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

Votive wrote,
Yes, I believe that to be so. If they had continued in love, I don't believe they would have fell for error. The error of making a great name for themselves, for greed, etc, and not for the love of God, nor the love for people, but for selfish reasons. One of the greatest errors of this generation is the message of Positive Confession and the Prosperity Message.

But that word, “never” still bothers me.

Can it mean---”not be remembered?” You that know Greek and Hebrew

Never is made up of two words---from <G3761> (oude) and <G4218> (pote); not even at any time, i.e. never at all :- neither at any time, never, nothing at any time.

The word--pote----

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

Never does mean never in the Greek.

Is it meant literally? That is the question.

Things do seem pretty black and white with the Lord. If one has separated him or herself from God, backslid, become reprobate, has been given over to uncleanness and crucified the Son of God afresh, counted the blood of the covenant an unholy thing, and etc. and then died lost and stands before Christ at Judgment then the person that he or she became, in that moment of Judgment, is never known to the Lord, since upon the apostasy, Christ separated Himself, too, and neither had nor sought out any intimate knowledge of the "dog returned to his [or her] vomit".

Christ only knew him or her as redeemed, when they were walking in and reaping to the Spirit. Once corruption from the flesh was achieved, it's adios muchacho/a, or as the Lord said, "I never knew you".

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

I think this can work 2 ways. Certainly there are "tares" who preach and claim great signs and wonders altho they are just lying. Christ never knew them.

On the other hand consider this scripture.

Hebrews 11:15-16

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

When one walks in overcoming faith God is not ashamed to be called their God! Now look at an incident in the life of apostle Peter.

Matthew 26:69-75

69 Now Peter sat without in the palace: and a damsel came unto him, saying, Thou also wast with Jesus of Galilee. 70 But he denied before them all, saying, I know not what thou sayest. 71 And when he was gone out into the porch, another maid saw him, and said unto them that were there, This fellow was also with Jesus of Nazareth. 72 And again he denied with an oath, I do not know the man. 73 And after a while came unto him they that stood by, and said to Peter, Surely thou also art one of them; for thy speech bewrayeth thee. 74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew. 75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.

Here three times Peter said he DID NOT KNOW JESUS. Did he not know him? Of course he did. Why did he deny him?

He was now ashamed of Jesus Christ! In those moments Peter was ashamed of being a disciple of Jesus. Tho he started well actually drawing his sword against the enemies of Christ he quickly became ashamed of his closeness to Christ denying thee times he knew him.

Remember what Jesus said here?

Luke 9:26


26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father’s, and of the holy angels.

Friends many Pentecostal/Charismatic ministers and believers ARE ASHAMED OF THE WORDS OF THE MESSIAH!

Many who pray for the sick and for deliverance are downright ashamed of some very important words he spoke. Like what you may ask?

Be ye therefore perfect even as your Father in Heaven is perfect. Matt:5-48

Type a search on "Perfection" some time. Right here on this site! You will find many basically apologizing for the words of Christ. All over Christendom its the same. Christians who are trying to serve God and yet ashamed of his words.

They like the parts about healing and deliverance. They like the parts about love and grace.

But when it comes to parts about overcoming iniquity they are offended! How do I know this? Because I have seen people do exactly this for many years now.

When is the last time you heard these words of Christ preached?

Mark 9:43-48

43 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched: 46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched. 47 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire: 48 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Why don't Preachers preach this? Something that was very important to Christ. Overcoming iniquity even if it means you have to suffer!

Could it be that they have so assimilated the doctrines and clichés of men they are ashamed to receive the words of Jesus when he is trying to deal with sins in their lives?

It could be they reject the teachings of the Messiah about ceasing from iniquity because they have been deluded into believing their behavior does not matter in the sight of God?

I think THESE ARE THE ONES JESUS ADRESSES at the day of judgment!

They actually believed in Jesus. They actually trusted he would heal and deliver. AND YET.......they received teaching that downplayed righteousness and holiness. It caused them instead of fighting iniquity even to the death to get careless.

They allowed sin to remain in their lives.

At the day of his coming THEY WILL BE ASHAMED.

28 And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 1 John 2:28

They will understand the overcoming saints have been gathered to meet Christ. They will wonder why they were not granted a part in the wonderful gathering of saints.

Matt. 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Tho they professed faith in him it was not enough! They did not cease from iniquity.

Now like as when Peter was ashamed of the Lord and denied him Jesus is showing his shame of people who were ashamed of his words.

He is ashamed to be around them. They still commit sin or "work iniquity".

He is therefore ashamed to call them his people!

15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

Yes he once knew them. He blessed then expecting they would follow him all the way. They refused so now he is showing HIS DISGUST with them. They could have treasured his teachings and became like him!

Now the meaning of "I never knew you" becomes clear.

The Lord Jesus is embarassed to call them his people! They failed to abide in him now they stand shamed by the very one they once followed. They chose the ear tickling doctrines of men over his pure words. They were ashamed of his words before men, now he is ashamed of them before his Father and the holy angels.

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

I think Christ did identify this group in verse 15. He said very clearly to beware of "false prophets." It is the false prophets who will make such claims.

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

It is NOT at all their claims to miracles that causes them to be sent to Hell.

It is because they would not cease from their sins!

DEPART FROM ME YE THAT WORK INIQUITY!

We have in this day forgotten that ALL who continue in sin will be rejected by Christ. He only accepts those who are overcomers of sin into the kingdom.

Re: Matthew 7:21-23
 

But what is false about them?

Was it there prophetic utterances, or their inward, moral character, that as Michael is saying, refused to cease from sin?