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-   -   John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost! (https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=45295)

Michael The Disciple 12-07-2013 12:22 AM
John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Here it is. He is not our friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W80GTU53BE

houston 12-07-2013 02:01 AM
And you believe he is lost. You are not his friend.

votivesoul 12-07-2013 02:21 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Acts 10:42,

42. And [John MacArthur] commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is [John MacArthur] which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

Romans 2:16,

16. In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by [John MacArthur] according to my gospel.

I forget when the Lord Jesus passed His role of Judge off to men? Must have been just before this conference, in a private visit with the speaker.

Michael The Disciple 12-07-2013 02:44 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
I posted this for the benefit of those who may (on this Forum) think otherwise about his beliefs. He is not ashamed of them, neither am I ashamed about mine. This is just so it will be "on the record" for Pentecostal people to see.

renee819 12-07-2013 04:18 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Is Macarthur, one of those, "name it and claim it" guys?

I never watch TV preachers. Although, I am aware of what many of them teach.

Michael The Disciple 12-07-2013 04:37 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by renee819 (Post 1291450)
Is Macarthur, one of those, "name it and claim it" guys?

I never watch TV preachers. Although, I am aware of what many of them teach.
He is an Evangelical Protestant Pastor.

houston 12-07-2013 05:55 AM
I like MacArthur. I know what he believes.

houston 12-07-2013 05:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by renee819 (Post 1291450)
Is Macarthur, one of those, "name it and claim it" guys? I never watch TV preachers. Although, I am aware of what many of them teach.
no. He is a cessationist. He had a conference about... Blah... Look up the thread about the Strange Fire Conference.

Originalist 12-07-2013 06:31 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1291441)
Here it is. He is not our friend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5W80GTU53BE
I think he is referring to the particular charismatics he's speaking against and not Pentecostals in general. He has made other statements about 'faithful Pentecostals" and acknowledges them as Christians. Now I'm sure he puts Oneness Pentecostals in an entirely different category.

Michael The Disciple 12-07-2013 07:15 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291458)
I think he is referring to the particular charismatics he's speaking against and not Pentecostals in general. He has made other statements about 'faithful Pentecostals" and acknowledges them as Christians. Now I'm sure he puts Oneness Pentecostals in an entirely different category.
I thought maybe that was the case when I first saw it. After listening to this interview not sure that is the case. Michael Brown interviews Phil Johnson a representative of Macarthur.

Many may not be interested in this. I post this to anyone who may have an interest in such things. Early on it sounds as tho the Macarthur camp accepts some Pentecostal/Charismatics. Later it sounds doubtful. At about 20 minutes in Brown gives him a chance to back off from painting with to broad a brush.

If anyone cares here it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R7aQjsDYbcQ

UnTraditional 12-07-2013 07:35 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
No folks, JM is not a friend to any Spirit filled individual. He speaks clearly against the continuation of the gifts in operation in the Church today. He is openly hateful towards anything of that such. Do not think he is accepting to some Spirit filled, as this past conference shows, he is not at all tolerant of any continuationist believer.

Originalist 12-07-2013 08:42 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnTraditional (Post 1291462)
No folks, JM is not a friend to any Spirit filled individual. He speaks clearly against the continuation of the gifts in operation in the Church today. He is openly hateful towards anything of that such. Do not think he is accepting to some Spirit filled, as this past conference shows, he is not at all tolerant of any continuationist believer.
Agreed. But nor does he think all of them are lost. He's right that many of the more kooky Charismatics are not preaching the true gospel. They are preaching a counterfeit (Health and wealth, God has a wonderful plan for your life) gospel. In those churches, the majority of their "conversions" are false with no real repentance.

houston 12-07-2013 09:14 AM
I'm pretty sure the report was that he paints with a monolithic brush.

Charnock 12-07-2013 09:44 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
He rightly identifies a complete lack of Gospel preaching within the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. That lack is most obvious in the Oneness Pentecostal movement.

Jesus is not preached, steps are preached. It's all about visible response rather than inward change.

Charnock 12-07-2013 09:49 AM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
The Oneness Pentecostal gospel begins and ends with Acts 2:38. To them, all other scripture is of secondary importance.

Faith is an afterthought.
Grace is mocked.

houston 12-07-2013 10:43 AM
You're mean.

StillStanding 12-07-2013 12:19 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
http://assets0.ordienetworks.com/mis...ike%20What.gif

StillStanding 12-07-2013 12:22 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
"All good men are happy when they choose to be their own authors. Those who choose to have others edit their pathways, must live on the edge of another man's sword." - Julie Arabi

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 01:51 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
JM and his irk are enemies of the Gospel, he hasn't even obeyed the Gospel, much less preach/teach the Gospel, why should anything he says concern a Pentecostal?

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Other than that, he's probably a nice guy. :D

houston 12-07-2013 01:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291501)
JM and his irk are enemies of the Gospel, he hasn't even obeyed the Gospel, much less preach/teach the Gospel, why should anything he says concern a Pentecostal? Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.) Other than that, he's probably a nice guy. :D
would you care to expound on the context of the scriptures that you posted? Thanks.

Originalist 12-07-2013 01:56 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock (Post 1291477)
The Oneness Pentecostal gospel begins and ends with Acts 2:38. To them, all other scripture is of secondary importance.

Faith is an afterthought.
Grace is mocked.
You are just as much of a distorter as MaCarthur.

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:00 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291501)
JM and his irk are enemies of the Gospel, he hasn't even obeyed the Gospel, much less preach/teach the Gospel, why should anything he says concern a Pentecostal?

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Other than that, he's probably a nice guy. :D
How do these verses apply to MaCarthur? These apply to the "health and wealth" false gospel crowd who, to his credit, MaCarthur is trying to expose. Furthermore, MaCarthur is an excellent preacher of the cross and does believe the gospel. His problem is that he does not understand the correct RESPONSE to the gospel, which is to obey Acts 2:38. You should at least understand what it is you are criticizing before you criticize it.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:01 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291503)
You are just as much of a distorter as MaCarthur.
:laffatu

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:03 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by houston (Post 1291502)
would you care to expound on the context of the scriptures that you posted? Thanks.
Real simple. Preachers that do not preach the Gospel and cause people to believe a lie are "enemies of the cross".

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:04 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charnock (Post 1291476)
He rightly identifies a complete lack of Gospel preaching within the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement. That lack is most obvious in the Oneness Pentecostal movement.

Jesus is not preached, steps are preached. It's all about visible response rather than inward change.
So one can't be inwardly changed by the Spirit if he believes the Acts 2:38 message? I actually agree with you that Apostolics do sometimes preach "steps" instead of preaching Christ, but that error on their part does not cancel out the validity of the "steps". We still have to repent and bury our old man with Christ. We still need to be regenerated by the Spirit, do we not?

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:05 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291507)
:laffatu
But i also think you are a distorter, so don't laugh too hard at Charnock.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:05 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291506)
How do these verses apply to MaCarthur? These apply to the "health and wealth" false gospel crowd who, to his credit, MaCarthur is trying to expose. Furthermore, MaCarthur is an excellent preacher of the cross and does believe the gospel. His problem is that he does understand the correct RESPONSE to the gospel, which is to obey Acts 2:38. You should at least understand what it is you are criticizing before you criticize it.
Sincerely, YOU don't know anything about what I know or don't know.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:06 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291510)
But i also think you are a distorter, so don't laugh too hard at Charnock.
You really can't believe how LITTLE I care about what YOU think of my opinion of false teachers.

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:07 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291511)
Sincerely, YOU don't know anything about what I know or don't know.
If you consider Acts 2:38 to be the gospel instead of the correct response to the gospel, then you are just as confused as MaCarthur.

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:08 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291512)
You really can't believe how LITTLE I care about what YOU think of my opinion of false teachers.

If you teach Acts 2:38 as the gospel instead of the correct response to the gospel, then you too are a false teacher.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:09 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291513)
If you consider Acts 2:38 to be the gospel instead of the correct response to the gospel, then you are just as confused as MaCarthur.
Quote:
correct response
:heeheehee

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:17 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291515)
:heeheehee
The GOSPEL is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. These steps he took earned him the right to be called Lord and to be our justifier (by his blood) and baptizer in the Holy Ghost. That is the gospel.



The correct response in faith to the above message is to repent, be baptized into the authority (name) of Jesus Christ, burying our old man with him being baptized into his death. Then God gives us regeneration/eternal life by way of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Charnock has a point in that many Apostolics (you included) completely skip actually declaring the gospel and preach Peter's command in Acts 2:38 as the gospel, with no explanation as to what necessitated those "steps". Thus we have shallow converts who are more in love with the "steps" than they are Christ. They find their full spiritual identity in the "steps" (the "truth") and have a very stunted experience and relationship with God.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:26 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by originalist (Post 1291517)
the gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of christ. These steps he took earned him the right to be called lord and to be our justifier (by his blood) and baptizer in the holy ghost. That is the gospel.



The correct response in faith to the above message is to repent, be baptized into the authority (name) of jesus christ, burying our old man with him being baptized into his death. Then god gives us regeneration/eternal life by way of the gift of the holy ghost.

Charnock has a point in that many apostolics (you included) completely skip actually declaring the gospel and preach peter's command in acts 2:38 as the gospel, with no explanation as to what necessitated those "steps". Thus we have shallow converts who are more in love with the "steps" than they are christ. They find their full spiritual identity in the "steps" (the "truth") and have a very stunted experience and relationship with god.

again.

Quote:
sincerely, you don't know anything about what i know or don't know.

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:31 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abiding Now (Post 1291525)
again.
Here's what I do know about you...



Quote:
JM and his irk are enemies of the Gospel, he hasn't even obeyed the Gospel, much less preach/teach the Gospel, why should anything he says concern a Pentecostal?

Php 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.
Php 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
Php 3:19 Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Other than that, he's probably a nice guy.
You are not applying the correct context of this passage.

Michael The Disciple 12-07-2013 02:37 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291517)
The GOSPEL is the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ. These steps he took earned him the right to be called Lord and to be our justifier (by his blood) and baptizer in the Holy Ghost. That is the gospel.



The correct response in faith to the above message is to repent, be baptized into the authority (name) of Jesus Christ, burying our old man with him being baptized into his death. Then God gives us regeneration/eternal life by way of the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Charnock has a point in that many Apostolics (you included) completely skip actually declaring the gospel and preach Peter's command in Acts 2:38 as the gospel, with no explanation as to what necessitated those "steps". Thus we have shallow converts who are more in love with the "steps" than they are Christ. They find their full spiritual identity in the "steps" (the "truth") and have a very stunted experience and relationship with God.
I never knew any Apostolics that do not teach Jesus died for our sins and rose again personally.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:39 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Originalist (Post 1291529)
Here's what I do know about you...





You are not applying the correct context of this passage.
Some day, I can only hope to be as wise in the Scripture as you THINK you are.

Abiding Now 12-07-2013 02:39 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1291532)
I never knew any Apostolics that do not teach Jesus died for our sins and rose again personally.
Absolutely!

:thumbsup

Timmy 12-07-2013 02:41 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Here they are!

Praxeas 12-07-2013 02:42 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Ever since McArther got publicly rebuked for his Logos Theology (Denied the Eternal Son doctrine), and changed his stance, he has been like this. He is trying to fit in with a certain segment of Evangelicalism

Originalist 12-07-2013 02:44 PM
Re: John Macarthur: Pentecostals Are Lost!
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple (Post 1291532)
I never knew any Apostolics that do not teach Jesus died for our sins and rose again personally.
Neither have I.


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