Appearance of inconsistency
 

There have been a couple threads here lately that have highlighted the apparent inconsistency in Pentecost that we preach against many of the addictive and damaging influences of the world, but we seldom preach or teach on gluttony.

That got me to thinking . . . . Fundamentalist Eastern Orthodox Christians and Catholics believe that birth control is wrong. The bible support for this stance seems fairly plain to me.

Why don't Apostolics teach on this topic?


Support for a stance against BC:

God's commandment to Noah to re-populate the earth was not rescinded.
Children are to be considered blessings from God is a consistent thematic element in the bible.
Many popular forms of BC are chemical abortifacents, i.e. they cause zygotes and embryos to be killed.

mis-applied support for a stance against BC:

The Lord slew Onan because he did not want to raise up children for his brother by impregnating his brother's wife, so he "spilled his seed on the ground." I believe it's fairly clear that Onan was slain for disobedience in general, not for what he specifically did.


What is the biblical support for the use of birth control?

Is it done via the principle of stewardship?

Or to avoid being "worse than an infidel?" (I Timothy 5:8) due to the perception that children cost so much money that more than two or three will induce deprivating financial hardship?

And yes, I'm well aware what curiosity did for the cat . . .

I for one do not believe Planned Parenthood should be setting the model for the Apostolic Church.

Let old Noah keep at it, then! :lol

Noah had three sons. There is no mention of him having other children or daughters.

The command to re-populate the earth wasn't a universal one that included us today.

I don't believe people should have children if they can't afford them. I have known people who think they should have as many children as they can but are on welfare. That's wrong.

There is no Biblical support nor opposition to birth control.

I consider the population project a success already... all I have to do is go to the grocery store or anywhere else for that matter and I see the results. I do believe that this is one of the reasons why other ethnicities are slowly becoming the majority population though, because of their Catholic, etc. roots...

Adding... I believe that for someone on welfare to have even one child is irresponsible.

Removed

Was Carpenter's post a response to me? He's my friend and I don't want to offend him, so just want to make sure since it was removed.

OP_Carl,
would you mind sharing what you are doing in regard to invention or lack of intervention in the topical area of this thread?

I have read numerous disclosures on the BC issue.Usually the ones writing it are men.I wonder if any of the women on this forum have studied it out.
I would be interested in their imput.:girlpopcorn

So does this Brother think it's a sin for a woman to get her tubes tied ?

And other, more intelligent cultures have determined this as well. The ability to afford children is/was considered by such to be the measure of readiness to MARRY. Or, more succinctly, if you aren't prepared to feed children, you aren't prepared to be married.

There is for abortifacent forms of birth control. A simple little line about thou shalt not murder, or something . . .
However, preventing conception does not kill.

I am hoping to learn the perspective of other Apostolic people, such as yourself, on the subject. I am hoping that collectively we Apostolics live up to our deep-digging bible study reputation, and can shed some more light from the word on the topic than what I presently know. I don't want to affect the flow of ideas in this thread with my present opinions.

Perhaps this is so on AFF, but I've only recently discovered AFF. My observations in literature, media, and other forums are the opposite of yours. I also know at least a dozen women who fiercely oppose abortion and anything that might even come close to abortion.

If you'll share your perspective and biblical knowledge on my questions, I'll answer this question a little later.

which tube left or right?

My tubes were tied after Zac was born. My doctor told me I couldn't have any more kids. I probably would have had them tied anyway. Providing for two has been a stretch at times in our lives. Financially, things are easier now, but I still feel fulfilled as a mom with two kids. If people want to have 12, I think that's fine, but I don't think it was for us.

Having that many kids can not be for anyone unless you are LDS, Latter Day Saints, Mormons.

Actually we have a black family in our church here that has 12 kids, most of whom are grown now. They are Pentecostal people to the core!

or catholic or apostolic

I have never known anyone in the Apostolic faith that way but there is always the exception.

Our movement has them, but you are correct that they are rare.

Pastor Charles Benninghoff of Bloomington, Indiana, has six children

The Gordon sisters, a singing group of six sisters from Colorado, have two brothers. That means there must be a Brother & Sister Gordon somewhere who had at least eight.

I have met in passing two Apostolic families that had large families. I didn't get a count, but something in the order of seven for one of them, and perhaps eleven for the other. The family with eleven was a Foster home that had adopted some of their Foster kids.

Six families in my church have five children. One family has seven. Five more families have four.

The church I was raised in the man who is the pastor now if I remember correctly was a sibling of 20 children. One family had 19 children. Two families had 8 children and one had seven children.

Well, that's one way to grow a church!!:lol

I know lots of them.I have only heard one UPC preacher though preach
against birth control but not from the pulpit.He taught it in classes.
Most are other orgs or Independant.

I know a pastor that started teaching that natural family planning was the only form of birth control that should be used. Within the next year, numerous babies were born at that church, and the teaching fell by the wayside. :lol

Took the man to the vet many, many moons ago...Alot cheaper by the way....;)

I never really considered the Benninghoff's to have a lot of kids.. it wasn't unusual to have a lot of kids then.. Our family is good friends with their family.... there are 5 of us.

My husband was from a family of 7 kids with the youngest being 30 now.. and his aunt, a family in the church I grew up with had 7 kids... youngest is now 37. I guess some people just like big families.

I love kids and had three kids the first three years of my marriage.. would have continued having them and refused to have my tubes tied. However, I struggled through 3 C-sections and it probably wouldn't have been a good idea to have more. When my youngest was about 18 months old, I had an illness that caused me to be sterile. :) God's way of stopping the kids before I died I guess. lol Considering my past circumstances... it was God's blessing that came from that illness.

There is faith, foolishness and presumption. Some things are truly stood upon as a form of genuine faith in God's word. Other things are plain nutty, such as dying of cancer with no healing occurring and refusing to get medical help. But other things are presumption, such as birth control being wrong.

The doctor told my wife physically it would be unhealthy for her have any more children ,she had probelms with the last one ,she is a Holy woman of God ,if she isn't saved I doubt anybody would make it.
She lives the life.
She has her tubes tied.

I think it's a family decision. We decided to have 2 children and that was it.

As far as how to stop having more chilgren... my husband and I looked at the different methods and decided that he should get the big V. To my husband, it looked like a women bearing that burden of BC whether tubes tied or the pill was not as safe as he would like and was more invasive than the man's side. I had no medical reasons for having my tubes tied, etc.

He said he was responsible for the family and it was his burden to bear.

There is also naivete, in this case caused by conservative squeamishness and leftist cultural inundation and conditioning. "Everybody else is doing it, it's taught in school, and I've never heard my preacher say anything about it."

It's a blessing to be married to a man who'll stand up and take responsibility and get a vasectomies ! After there babies and the lost of a fourth son (stillborn), my husband said I went through enough, it was the least he could do, nor did he want me in such physical pain .

I guess we could pray that God would take our biological urges away.

Yes it is.....:killinme

oh yeah a neuter

:blink

So much for a serious discussion. :rolleyes2

And that means??

That's why they are supposed to get married first! (Most on welfare are single mothers!)

My view on this subject is that Christian families should, I think, have as many children as possible. By this, I don't mean that birth control is a sin. I don't mean this in a legalistic way. But, having children I think has many benefits. American society has taught too many people that children are a curse rather than a blessing, as the Bible teaches.