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Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
It seems to me, that the churches I have been in, in the past, take for granted that the 'gifts' will just happen. Not much teaching on them, and yet Paul used 3 chapters in 1 Cor to teach the people about how to use the 'gifts.'
I believe the gifts were given to guide the church. To increase faith, when they see healings being done and prophesies fulfilled and people with the gifts of knowledge and wisdom speaking out. I can't even find a good book on this subject. People talk about tongues and interpretations, but there are 7 other gifts that we need in each group. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Two treatments are as follows:
Spiritual Gifts by David K. Bernard Read here: http://pentecostalpublishing.com/sit...views/9411.pdf The Gifts of the Spirit by Lee Stoneking Buy here: http://www.amazon.com/The-gifts-Spir.../dp/B0006XQL86 I've read both, having read DKB's treatment at least twice. They are standard. Nothing exceptional, as I recall. Smith Wigglesworth did a treatment a long time ago. Try this: http://www.smithwigglesworth.com/sermons/eif13.htm I also recall Verbal Bean wrote a book called The Works of the Holy Spirit. I can't remember if he addresses the Gifts of the Spirit, however. It's been awhile since I read it. You might look into it. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Votive, I've read most of David Bernard's books, his book as you said, is standard, but I didn't feel that he went into depth enough.
Also I've read Smith Wigglesworth life story, was this a different book? I'd like to get a hold of Verbal Beans, book. Will see what I can find on Amazon. There is everything on Amazon, under, Gifts Of The Spirit, from possibly true teachings to teachings from Psychics. But actually, there are many on here that have experienced the Gifts, and needs to speak out. I believe that every person that receives the Holy Ghost, also receives at least one Gift of the Spirit. But I feel that because of lack of teaching, that many Gifts lie dormant in Christians, that God wants to use. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
As I said: Most churches are in a "coma".
I started a thread on this issue but it was getting sidetracked very fast into a non related useless discussion about "what is church", "what is a congregation" etc. Not unusual here. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
When gifts are experienced and put into practice... it's often hard to keep people under human control.
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Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
I believe that there is a very subtle rise in "seers". These are devout Christians who are willing to delve into the spiritual dimensions of the Spiritual Gifts. They often attend churches but don't pastor. You often have to seek them out and go to their homes to seek a personal Word from God. Sometimes "Seers" hold studies and "development groups" to assist believers with opening up to the Spiritual Gifts and using them in a more controlled environment. It's a different approach from the traditional approach of just thinking that the spiritual gifts will "just manifest" and things will "just happen" on their own during a "church service".
For example, they will explain what the four different kinds of "visions" are: DreamsThey also help define the Gifts of the Spirit for the believer in more solid terms. For example the gifts are as follows: Word of Wisdom - Divine wisdom or insight about a situation that is delivered straight from God.Development groups can be fun and very inspiring. They can build great confidence with regards to following the Spirit in the realm of the gifts. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
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Many churches fight against it. It's another way of satan coming into the body of Christ and disturbing the works of the Spirit. Many in leadership fall for it and in the process down grade the church to a social club. |
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Development groups are good. They help to properly recognize and understand the gifts when they are in operation. They also help to recognize the limitations each gift has within a given individual. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
it is easy to cry Gnosticism! at many of these, and i admit that i'm having some trouble seeing the line there, myself. I think a pretty strong--tho not conclusive--case might be made that many of the recorded Gifts in the Gospels were Apostolic, and given because we were beginning a new age or dispensation, and may not be applicable now (Benny Hinn, anyone?); but this still leaves many 'Spiritual Gifts' that should be applicable today?
Dordt saying that churches are in a coma is interesting to me, and i wonder if that isn't a point central to the understanding here. i personally don't believe that a church that has ascribed to the doctrine of OS is even capable of imparting these gifts, and so have sought them outside of the Western church system, in men similar of statement to Aquila (Larry Wood, et al) |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Development groups often start off with prayer that expresses the desire for God to allow the gifts of the Spirit to flow. Sometimes a meeting might be dedicated to a specific Gift of the Spirit as specified by the seer (as the Spirit leads the focus). Then there is a moment of silence for people to begin considering various circumstances, issues, or challenges in their lives. The group may pair up and partners lay hands on one another, praying for Spiritual insight. They are to focus on the impressious that they feel "in the Spirit" as they are praying for the individuals. Sometimes these come as images, visions, sounds, scents, or "feelings". Sometimes the people are encouraged to speak them out. At other times they are encouraged not to speak them out, but remember them and record them in a journal that is revisited throughout the secessions. For example, in sessions focused on Word of Knowledge a person may smell the scent of a drug or have an image of a drug impressed upon their mind while praying for someone. They will then say, "Lord, I sense in the Spirit that this person or someone close to them is struggling with drugs... we plead the..." Or the person might receive an image or vision of a broken wedding cake topper, note it, and later in discussion mention that they saw this and how they feel it may indicate that the person prayed for or someone close to them is facing (or going to face) a divorce. The issues at hand can then be prayed for together by the group.
Spiritual development groups can be very interesting as the Spirit begins to reveal things to the group that no one in the group could possibly know about one another, their churches, families, jobs, or friends. In this manner people become rather confident in following the leading of the Spirit in these areas. If something is "off" the seer(s) will typically help to interpret as the Spirit leads them... or it is left as is and considered to be a "misinterpretation of the Spirit" or a thought rooted in the "flesh". |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Aquila, you might define 'seer' here as it contrasts with our standard def of the word. How is this 'seer' different from the Tarot kind, for instance. And, what do you think of remote viewing' in this context? Is this a gift of the spirit?
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Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
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American Tract Society Bible DictionaryIt's my understanding that "prophets" were first called "seers". However, the prophets became rather organized and even founded a school of the prophets. They served in an official capacity. Yet in some verses we still see prophets and seers spoken of distinctly. Seers often personally served leaders and nobility. Prophets remained in the more religious communities. It is my understanding that a "seer" is essentially a prophet that doesn't serve in an official capacity. They are more private. Also, the gifts of a seer are more visual and sensory in nature as opposed to the gift of the prophet which is vocal. The seer comes with the message of "I see..." or a, "And I saw...". The prophet primarily speaks, "Thus saith the LORD..." The word as delivered by a prophet is typically a message directly from God. As is a prophetic utterance. However, the words of a seer need a degree of interpretation. An older man sitting in a rocking chair on his front porch that shares the dreams and visions God has given him about history, politics, the family, the church, and the state of society... and gives you something to chew on for yourself after it's obvious that he has "read your mail"... he is a seer. The man who speaks publically to the crowd with a message from God... he is a prophet. Yes, the term "seer" is used in some circles as it might relate to those who are supposedly psychic or use tarot cards and other methods of divination. The issue at hand isn't the visual/sensory nature of the giftings... but the source. Is it the Holy Spirit or is it demonic? Is it rooted in prayer and love for God... or cards, mirrors, crystals, etc.? Remember, Satan doesn't come up with anything original. Anything Satan's agents have is nothing but a counterfeit of a divine original. As for remote viewing... can't the Holy Spirit give a vision or word of knowledge by opening the spiritual eyes of a man or woman to see what is happening elsewhere? Did not Jesus see Nathaniel under the fig tree... when Jesus wasn't physically present? |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Aquila This part is true.
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Also this raises a red flag to me. Aquiia wrote, Quote:
I believe that God does give dreams and visions, but I don't see it emphasized to that extent in the Bible, anywhere.. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
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There are MANY bible topics and many different things God wants to say to His church. On the other hand, David Bernard has an excellent book on the topic and recently it was developed into a small group discussion. I taught this to my bible study group...sorry you weren't there :-) We, and I, regularly emphasize the gifts in teaching on them, having discussions and encouraging others to pray about them. |
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Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Benjamin Disraeli once said, “Most people die with their music still locked up inside them.”
Sadly, this is true for most born again Christians. There is a spiritual dimension to biblical Christianity that is very personal, spiritual, and deeply revelatory. Most only walk in the realm of doctrine. Few actually venture into the deeper waters of the Spirit. |
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Let's not forget there were 120 speaking in tongues on the day of Pentecost and then with 3000 or so more visiting many more miracles were done. The problem isn't the type of meeting. The problem is the teaching |
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But for a person to exercise a gift, they would have had to raise the hand and ask permission, and that makes a person feel very out of place, even in a home church. I'm glad that the gifts are taught and exercised in your church, but I don't believe that happens very often, in many churches. |
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My wife taught the youth a few Sundays ago at Sunday school and those kids were speaking in tongues, laying hands on each, prophesying and giving words. These kids were moving in the Spirit. Gives me hope for the next generation. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
When I came to Christ I received the Holy Spirit about 6 weeks later. Starting that day a prophetic gift began to operate in my life. I remember how surprised I was. I was not yet in a Church and had no teaching about it.
It usually came in a dream. I would see something and 90% of the time it would happen in the next day or so. Rarely it would be something that happened later than that. To the glory of Christ it is still happening in my life. My personal experience is that when a gift is present it begins to work. No one told me anything about it. It just works as he wills. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
In my experience, I think leadership has a lot to do with how the spirit is able to work. Many times, leadership will shut down a service, and move on to the next item on the agenda, instead of letting the spirit continue to move in the hearts of people. It's someone's turn to sing or preach, and it seems that many times takes preeminence over a moving of the spirit.
That being said, having leadership that is operating with genuine gifts of the spirit in their life, and following and being sensitive to the moving of the spirit, that would be wonderful. I'm glad to hear the positive good reports that others have spoken of. |
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Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
I think it would be beneficial to anyone interested in the charismata to study the Scriptures, specifically the Book of Acts, and find every occurrence they can of each individual gift. It might shed some light on one's understanding.
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Votive, I have studied on the gifts, a lot. My question was directed toward the churches, and this is why that I believe is one of the reasons that the churches are failing. They don't allow the Holy Spirit to lead and guide the service. As Kept said, in so many words, they want to keep to a program. I believe that God gave the 'gifts' to lead the church, as well as to lead us in our walk. |
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In over 30 years with the UPC, I was never in a service that was anywhere near this controlling or had a schedule to keep. Most services were long because of the leadership allowing the spirit to move. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
I'll admit that I'm not that experienced in my gift, in knowing how to operate according to the Spirit, to how God wants to utilize me in my gift. And my personality usually hinders me from being more forthcoming, which I'll ask here for prayer on, and will continue to pray that God will help me with this. My problem is, I'm very shy, and don't like constant praise.
"My personal experience is that when a gift is present it begins to work. No one told me anything about it. It just works as he wills." Yes, Michael, this is very true. This is how my gift works with me as well. |
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It might start out with song service, then perhaps someone gives a message in tongues, which results in an altar call. one or more might repent or receive the Holy Ghost. There is such a loving fellowship, that no one wants to go home. And it might last until 12 or 1am. Of course the services led by the Holy Ghost were never the same. Sometimes there was preaching and other times the minister gave over to the Holy Spirit. But one thing I remember well, when the Spirit was leading, no one wanted to go home. |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
What follows is my own experience with the Gifts of the Spirit...
The Gift of Diverse Tongues I was a semi-new convert (less than two years saved). We were having a fellowship among 20-somethings, kind of like a college and career age group. We had a Bible study, and we prayed afterward. The power of the Spirit was acutely manifested. No one dared stop praying or worshiping. In the middle of it all, an intense heat fell upon my face. I realized in time that the gift of diverse tongues was present before me; all I had to do was speak, and it would happen. But I paused, in mental debate. I knew the Word. Without an interpreter, one should keep silence. I considered who was in the room, and knowing none but one had ever been used in the interpretation of diverse tongues, decided that perhaps I should not speak. I prayed quietly, "Lord, is there an interpreter"? A strong impression that there was not one present came to my mind, so I did not speak. The next church service (two days later), the same fiery feeling came upon me. I again waited, and prayed if an interpretation would be present should I speak a diverse tongue. Almost immediately, God impressed upon me an affirmative, so without hesitation, I spoke in the diverse tongue God had given me, and it was interpreted. Some amount of time later, in a different church service, I again felt the same feeling, and prayed if there was an interpretation. Believing there would be one present, I began to speak. The pastor at the time immediately shut it down and said it wasn't from God. I silenced myself immediately. But I was bothered all day, knowing it was from God, but not being able to prove my subjectivity was more than that. I started to get angry and offended. There was a church fellowship later that night. I couldn't shake my anger. So I went into the bathroom and prayed, forgiving and letting it go. As I came out of the bathroom, the pastor came to me directly and apologized to me for quenching the Spirit earlier in the day during church service and for silencing me. I forgave and all was well. The next time it occurred I was standing in the back row. I didn't feel the fire anymore, but knew what God was doing. This time, however, I felt a check in my spirit to consider the following verse: 1 Corinthians 14:30, Quote:
Since these early experiences, God has used me I would say about less than ten times in diverse tongues. (continued...) |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Continued from post #37...
The Gift of Interpretation of Tongues I've only been used by God in this gift a handful of times. The first time was in a prayer meeting our campus ministry was having. Two different people spoke in diverse tongues. We waited. I didn't really know what I was doing with this one, but felt God was giving me some words to speak, and so I did. It was a bit rusty, but one person present did feel that what I said was from God, as the words applied directly to their, at the time, present situation. Another time during a church service, someone spoke a diverse tongue. I felt right away that God gave me the interpretation and so spoke. The pastor said what I had said wasn't the interpretation, but was instead a prophecy, and so, he instructed the church to seek the interpretation. I thought that made no sense, but was okay with it. Someone then interpreted. It was then inferred that what I had was legit and from God, but that it was out of the order God wanted to move, i.e. I should have waited until the diverse tongue was interpreted, then spoke. I thought differently, but didn't make a stink about it. There has been only maybe two or three other times that I've ventured out to interpret a diverse tongue (that I can recall). I just don't feel much unction in this gift. (continued...) |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Continued from post #38,
The Gifts of Healing and/or the Working of Miracles Since these two can overlap each other, I include them both. The reader can decide which of the two I'm describing. When I was a very new convert (less than six months), on a random trip to a gas station, I saw an old friend working there that I hadn't seen in years. She had just gotten off the phone and was in tears. Without delay, I asked what was wrong. She said "I just found out my cancer is back". I didn't even know she had had cancer (she had moved to California for an operation and recovery, hence why I hadn't seen her for so long). She did not know I had become a Christian. I told her about it and asked her if she would let me pray for her. She agreed, coming down around the desk, to where I was standing. I gave her a big hug and prayed "Jesus please heal my friend _______ of her cancer". I may have prayed other things, but I don't recall. I hung out with her for the next several hours, even while she worked. We talked and caught up on old times. We exchanged phone numbers. She had an appointment made with her oncologist the following Monday. Monday came and at 11:42 AM she called me. I asked how it went. She said "You're never going to believe this". Of course I began to get excited and started to smile and said "Try me". She said "The doctor said I am completely cancer free". Of course I rejoiced, but only in my mind. I asked her "How do you suppose that happened"? I was hoping she would acknowledge the work of God in her life. Instead she said "Well, someone must have a lot of faith". She meant me. She would not acknowledge that Jesus healed her. I refused to take the credit. 'Til this day she hasn't openly confessed her healing. She even showed me the CAT scan proving she had again had cancer. But not once did she give the Lord the glory (at least to me). In fact, she then went on to blame God for a different medical condition she had been born with (a deviation in one her heart's valves). On a separate occasion, a man who had had a heart attack a few months prior was in church one particular Sunday morning. He said he was having angina, and would be leaving the service to go to the hospital. The pastor had us pray for him and some other men who had heart conditions. I laid one hand directly over his heart and lifted my other hand to the Lord and prayed. He lifted his hands. I was the only one in direct contact with him. We prayed. I felt a rush of power literally move through me, like electricity from my raised hand across my chest into my other hand into his body. He felt it, too. God immediately healed him of his angina. My brother and I were asked to come and minister to a sister's aunt, who had pancreatic cancer. We both spoke, and shared the Good News. I testified how God had healed my friend. At the end, we all laid hands on her and prayed. Immediately her appetite came back to her (she hadn't eaten in a few days). Her color improved and she said she was feeling better. A few weeks later, she was in the hospital with pains. I went. The sister was there, too. We prayed for her (she was mostly sedated). The sister came back later on in the month to tell the church that her aunt was cancer free and healed (from stage 4 pancreatic cancer). These are the big three. There are other healing that have occurred when I've prayed for people, including for myself, my wife, or my kids. They don't stand out the same way, however. (continued...) |
Re: Where is teaching on 'gifts of the Spirit?”
Continued from post #39,
The Gift of Faith God first seemed to begin using me in this gift as He lead me to become a children's evangelist (local only to our own Sunday school, however). The first child to ever receive the gift of the Holy Spirit was five years old. He was a student of mine. At the end of the hour, I felt an impression that we should pray for this child. We did, and although some time passed, he started speaking in tongues as the Spirit gave him utterance. The next child, also five years old, and also one of my students, came up to me while I was in the back of the sanctuary ushering. She wanted me to pick her up, so I did. It was during song service, and we were all worshiping God. She heard me speak in tongues (since she was so close, even though I was being quiet). She asked me some questions about it. I answered her questions and asked her if she would like to receive the Holy Spirit. She nodded yes. I led her through a prayer of repentance and a prayer of faith. She received the Holy Spirit, quietly speaking in tongues, head down on my shoulder. I went to the front and told the pastor, even as she continued. He announced it to the whole church. I helped take the offering with her in my arms, still speaking in tongues. When I got to the back, I handed her off to her parents, who were crying. Within a year or so after that, close to 20 different kids at our church received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, all speaking in tongues. Of that number, two receive it elsewhere (i.e. I wasn't the one praying with them). In addition to children, God has used me with both teens and adults in the gift of faith, when they are seeking the Holy Spirit. I've never kept track in this area, so I don't know the number. If I've ever been used in the gift of faith apart from praying with people to receive the Holy Spirit, I can't rightly say. (continued...) |
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