Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

At a recent conference lock-in I went to, I wasn’t expecting to have a good time but honestly I did for a little while that was before I was told by someone that they just got in trouble by their youth leader because they were talking to expected “fruit cakes” and that they needed to stay away from them. Okay people first off even if they were why in the world would you tell people to stay away from your fellow brothers and fellow Christian? I do believe what the bible says about homosexuality and I do not in anyway condone it but, they were not “fruit cakes” and just because someone dresses in their own style or comes from a certain city does not mean you can put that title on them. They were just sitting there not even knowing what these people were saying about them. I do understand that we need to protect our youth from hanging out with people that might be damning to their souls, but they were not. What is that saying about our faith to the world? How are we suppose to show love to our coworkers and strangers on the street if we are told stuff like this from our youth leaders? How are we suppose to win people to God if we can’t do these things? Didn’t Jesus eat with sinners and sit with them? love them? walk with them? come here for them? yes he did.

This same person started to put down people and my pastor and church. Just because she didn’t understand and she thought she was right. For one you do not come to a conference and do that, you shouldn’t anyway or anywhere but that totally cleared me of her for any future talks, there won’t be anymore. Her facade went back up after she left.

Anyway the point of this post is that the “fruit cakes” were the ones sitting there being polite and nice to people and being good people while the person that looked like they had it all together stood flat footed and deliberately put down my pastor, church and others then turned around and acted like nothing happened, but we are telling our people to stay away from people and dividing the church into groups. What would have happened if this was their first time visiting our kind of church and they seen or heard these people doing this? Something to think about I guess.

Didn’t we read about the Pharisees in the bible about being more “righteous” than others and exalting themselves over the rest?

Treat others how you would want to be treated.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Well, fruit cakes are supposed to be nice to people.... ;)

Feel better now?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Within a few months after I joined AFF, I realized that many of the people I most enjoyed reading the posts of were people I would never have fellowshipped with in person because of their lower standards or because they didn't attend 'a good church' (meaning an ultra conservative Apostolic church). I allso realized that I enjoyed their posts because they were much kinder and more respectful than those I'd judged 'right' by appearances. It was an eye opening, thought provoking, and life changing revelation. I hope the same for you.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

We are commanded not to keep company with fornicators. No communion/fellowship is allowed. Fornication, from the Greek word porne means sexual immorality of any sort. Homosexuality, as an aberrant sexuality, is illicit and immoral. There is wisdom in not spending time with people "in church" who are actively living such a lifestyle.

They already stand condemned. Having a youth leader separate some young people from them isn't wrong.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I agree with your premise, but to counter... one must be careful to not judge someone as a "fruitcake" just because you've heard it from someone else. Sometimes gossip can spread like wildfire, and not have a bit of truth to it.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

When you can look past someone's outward appearance, it is amazing how loudly the heart can speak through their words and actions. It is an eyeopener to realize that you cannot always judge the book by the cover that you've been accustomed to doing, but when you begin to look at the fruit in their lives, as the Lord Jesus told us too... that is a much better measuring stick.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Yes and I did mention that in the post, but they were not and they were as spirit filled as the next person.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I don't know id that was suppose to be sarcastic or what but actually I do feel better now thanks :)

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Was this a UPC conf? Was that person UPC?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Yes this was an Apostolic/Pentecostal conference and the person was also.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Yes it was and the person also.
I have been my whole life Apostolic.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

It is when the other young people were not homosexual. And there is no need to put that title on someone who merely wants to style their hair a certain way. Or wear certain clothes (yes the clothes were modest and acceptable) and this certain person had a prejudice against them.

I'm not trying to be mean or anything like like I simply just wanted to get it out there for the simple fact that it is wrong to do that to people when they are NOT "fruit cakes" and wrong to separate people from others that are not doing anything wrong and they have been in church their whole lives as well.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

That doesn't answer the question. Was it UPC or some other group or independent?

You know UPC is not a synonym for Apostolic or Pentecostal. Lots of organizations claim to be Apostolic and Pentecostal

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

You were born that way?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

We're ALL born Apostolic until we decide to become baptists :heeheehee

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I know a couple independents who'd have done that... but they turned out to be fruitcakes...

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

True, I wouldn't go out of my way to make too many presumptions. But things like this are often well-known in the fellowship, and are discernible through the Holy Spirit, and too often are allowed for the sake of I'm not sure what.

There is grace, "...and such were some of you...", but notice the past tense. It shouldn't still be so. Nevertheless, having not been there, we can only guess as to the validity of the claim made against the young people.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I do understand completely. And it's true sometimes it is allowed. It's just sometimes young people or young adults don't figure things out for themselves they always rely on others to tell them what to do and where to go. We should know how to ourselves already.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

HAHA!

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Well no I was born into the church and have been in church my whole life but you have to get it for yourself sometime and I did.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I know that I told you I have been Apostolic my whole life so I do understand.
And UPC is United Pentecostal Church so they are Pentecostal.
But no this conference was Apostolic not independent or UPC

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

And you know that Apostolic and Pentecostal believe the same things mainly the differences are standards.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

So what organization was it if not UPC nor Independent?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

It wasn't an organization it's Apostolic.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

UPC is an organization. When it's not run by a group like UPC or PAW etc etc, then it's an Independent Apostolic group.

Who put this meeting on? A church? If it wasn't a group like the UPC then was it just a church that put it on for anyone?

For example, our church group, the United Pentecostal Church, has Youth Conventions in Southern California. Youth from UPCs all over SoCal attend. Sometimes non-UPCers go, but the event was put together by the UPC.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I was born a sinner.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

We all are.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

It was an Independent Apostolic group it wasn't UPC or any other group like that.
It's one you are invited too. You don't really just come if you hear about it and want to go. The standards are more stricter there.
I don't think it would be a good idea to name the church or conference that held it though.

And your conference sounds really fun.
I'm assuming you live in Cali?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Yes

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Then I guess Jesus would be in big, big trouble, because he sat and ate with tax collectors and other notorious sinners. (Mark 2:15-17, Matthew 9:10-12, Luke 5:29-31)

That Jesus! He really offended the Pharisees!

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Was the conference in the north Dallas area?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

I'm not going to say what or where not being mean.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Would I know your pastor? Is your church big?

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Maybe. Define "big".

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Haven't read 1 Corinthians 5 recently, I presume? Note what I said. I said "in church".

I didn't say out of church, for then, as Paul wrote, we would have to leave the world entirely.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Our church is so big…it's world wide.
And everybody in it was born a sinner, not an apostolic.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Wondering that same thing... :D

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Oh my goodness I'm tired of this I simply wanted to write something about what I seen and you are coming back at me like I don't know anything about the church like I have not been in church my whole life. I know we need to separate ourselves from the world I know that we need to keep our young people away from people that would be harmful, I know all this ok. I'm not trying to be mean to you but I need you to understand that I understand how this works. And no matter what you say it's was still wrong to have done that to those young people at that conference, and maybe they should be grown up already to have decided fr themselves if they needed to stay away from them.

Re: Facade & Pharisees in the church
 

Don't get to excited!
You are on the Apostolic Friends Forum…..lol. :friend