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erika.whitten

02-02-2014 02:53 PM

Divorce?

My husband and I have been together for about 8 years. We met at a UPCI church and he has been back maybe twice since then and refuses to go to church and told me that he doesn't really believe in God about 6 months ago.

He cleans absolutely nothing, not even cleaning up after himself but will just put trash on the table next to the trash can and just seems to refuse to throw anything away or clean anything up. He does no laundry or dishes at all.

He takes a shower about once a month. It used to be like once a week and for a time he was working at Wendy's and took a shower every day then but its just gotten worse over time.

He does work a regular 40 hour week at a pretty good job just like I do but from the moment he gets home till he goes to sleep, he sits at his computer and plays video games. He eats at his computer and occasionally we will go out or we will watch a show together but that's it.

Anytime I mention anything about cleaning or showering or anything like that it leads to a big fight and we don't speak for hours after that.

He would never EVER go to counseling. I love him so much but I just don't know what to do anymore...

erika.whitten

02-02-2014 03:11 PM

Re: Divorce?

He also refuses to brush his teeth. It's been probably a year since he brushed them. He just says there is no point that they are a lost cause.

crakjak

02-02-2014 03:19 PM

Re: Divorce?

Sounds like he is in depression, and feels everything is meaningless?

erika.whitten

02-02-2014 03:29 PM

Re: Divorce?

So am I but I still manage to shower and brush my teeth and then come home after working all day long and clean up his mess and make dinner for everyone.

Amanah

02-02-2014 03:31 PM

Re: Divorce?

maybe you can find a christian counselor to get advice from? sounds like there are some emotional problems?

Praxeas

02-02-2014 04:04 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1299622)

Sounds like he is in depression, and feels everything is meaningless?

That was my first thought

Praxeas

02-02-2014 04:05 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by erika.whitten (Post 1299624)

So am I but I still manage to shower and brush my teeth and then come home after working all day long and clean up his mess and make dinner for everyone.

Not "sadness", but "clinical depression"...in fact if it's true Im surprised he is able to even work.

http://www.webmd.com/depression/guide/major-depression

Sasha

02-02-2014 07:06 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Praxeas (Post 1299631)

That was my first thought

Mine as well.

KeptByTheWord

02-03-2014 08:29 AM

Re: Divorce?

Even if your husband won't go for counseling, you need someone to talk to. Find a Christian counselor if you can. If you can't afford it, perhaps you could go to a local women's shelter, and ask for counseling help. Many times they have a lot of resources for someone in your situation.

ILG	02-03-2014 08:42 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by erika.whitten (Post 1299619)

People with aspergers syndrome can act this way. Some of the symptoms of aspergers are not being able to read and understand social cues, a lack of personal hygiene, an overstimulation with life in general so a tendency to hole up with video games or movies and things like that. Some other symptoms are odd food habits, not liking certain textures on the tongue or skin, a need for routines not being interrupted, not understanding why other people find the things they do offensive, when talking to them the conversation is pretty one-sided with them talking a LOT about what interests them, a tendency to have meltdowns and a tendency towards depression.

If he does have apsergers and he is holding down a 40 hour a week job, that would be a huge accomplishment as many people with aspergers are unable to do that. Aspergers is a neurological problem and can't be cured, but it can be managed. Many times when people with aspergers find out they have it they are greatly relieved.

Jermyn Davidson

02-03-2014 12:51 PM

Re: Divorce?

It is my understanding that Aspergers is usually diagnosed earlier than adulthood.

From my personal experience, he sounds like he is clinically depressed-- meaning that you won't be able to understand as much as you think you should be able to about the man you love. DO NOT BLAME YOURSELF, and please, please, realize that your husband is probably a very ill man, but not a bad man.

I recommend that you take him to a mental health professional so that he can get diagnosed officially, begin meds and counselling on a regular basis.

If I am right, the last thing that you should do right now is divorce him-- especialy if he isn't in his right mind.

If he refuses to be seen by a mental health professional, then maybe someone else can recommend something.

For me, I was in denial for the longest and it took something drastic for me to realize that I needed professional help. Hopefully, your husband will not be as stubborn as I was.

ILG	02-03-2014 12:56 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson (Post 1299709)

It is my understanding that Aspergers is usually diagnosed earlier than adulthood.

Nowadays, that can be true, but aspergers was not very understood even 10 years ago. Even now, people are just now learning about it.

votivesoul

02-03-2014 11:40 PM

Re: Divorce?

1 Corinthians 7:4,

Quote:

4. ...and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

While this primarily deals with "due benevolence", other aspects of the husband's body come into play, such as hygiene, when it affects the ability of the wife to so render.

So, in this, I say you have every right to demand he take care of himself. You can't force it, obviously, and if he is mentally ill, there isn't much else you can do on this end.

1 Corinthians 7:13-15,

Quote:

13. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
14. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
15. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

Your husband, as you've relayed it, is now an unbeliever. And from what you've written, I don't think he is "pleased to dwell" with you.

After all, if he were pleased to dwell with you, he'd make some effort to contribute to the marriage in a meaningful way that made your life more enjoyable.

Since, apparently, he is not doing anything of the sort, I would call this a case of indirect abuse through abandonment of the vows he made to you when you married.

A man (or woman, even) doesn't have to be physically violent to be abusive. They don't have to yell or damage their spouse in any overt way. They just have to do things that hurt the recipient.

So this is what I say (and take it for what it's worth: a stranger on a message board giving an opinion):

He is abusing you psychologically and is not pleased to dwell with you. He is an unbeliever. He has not physically departed, but he's basically gone, nonetheless.

You are not under bondage, but are called to peace. You need not divorce the man. But I think you have the right, if everything you have shared is accurate, to leave.

You don't have the right to sign papers ending your marriage (unless or until marital infidelity can be proven), and so, you don't have the right to pursue a new life with a different man.

But you don't have to live in the squalor and destitution he has embraced and is forcing you to accept.

So, unless he is schizophrenic, or in desperate need of a mental hospital (meaning, he's just living this way out of his own choosing), then I would pack up and leave.

But before any of that, pray, fast, seek the Lord with all your heart, and hear from HIM first. And of course, as the Proverbs state, there is safety in the multitude of counselors. A local, Spirit-filled assembly led by anointed people of God can help much in this area.

MissBrattified

02-04-2014 10:06 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by erika.whitten (Post 1299619)

I'm in agreement with others who think there might be an underlying issue, but if he refuses to seek help, you might be able to push him into that by leaving...temporarily. There's no scripture against separation, and sometimes that's necessary either to protect yourself, your children or to strong-arm the other person into better choices.

Dordrecht

02-04-2014 11:12 AM

Re: Divorce?

There's only one answer to these kind of problems and that answer is "prayer".
Anything else is "christian psychology" which does not work.
Pray that the Lord will save him and do a mighty work in his life.

Quote:

But before any of that, pray, fast, seek the Lord with all your heart, and hear from HIM first.

Amen to that !

BrotherEastman

02-04-2014 11:21 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 1299821)

Most of the time I agree with you because you make so much sense: however, trying to "strong arm" someone into doing something like counseling just might backfire.

MissBrattified

02-04-2014 11:28 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman (Post 1299832)

Most of the time I agree with you because you make so much sense: however, trying to "strong arm" someone into doing something like counseling just might backfire.

Agreed, but the living conditions are unacceptable regardless, which is why I added that. If my husband was refusing to reform AND refusing professional help, that's what I would do. That, or he would come home to all of his video games being in the fireplace. :coffee2 :D

Sometimes ultimatums are the only things that will work, but you do have to be prepared for people to take the "third option."

BrotherEastman

02-04-2014 11:52 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 1299833)

While I understand that the living conditions aren't to the standards of the person with the question of the "3rd option", I wonder if the third option for this particular person is sound with a biblical option.

MissBrattified

02-04-2014 12:01 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman (Post 1299837)

Rephrase? :blink

ILG	02-04-2014 12:37 PM

Re: Divorce?

I think searching for the reason for the behavior is very important in this situation. If there is a biological reason for it, there should be compassion as working towards managing the behavior is instituted. And if his behavior has in the past gotten him a lot of shame it will be hard to break through that. There is no room for shame in a situation that is caused by a biological problem. Unfortunately, disengaging emotionally from the behavior and looking at it rationally and trying to work through it is the best approach in my opinion. Easier said than done though. Are there other family members who can lend support?

MissBrattified

02-04-2014 02:37 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 1299842)

Yes, yes, I agree. :thumbsup It's definitely important to make sure there aren't any serious underlying mental health issues causing his behavior before taking any other action.

The end goal of whatever you do should be to preserve the marriage. Even temporary separation should be with the aim of resolution in mind, and should be a last resort. (Better, BroE? :D )

BrotherEastman

02-04-2014 03:51 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 1299838)

Rephrase? :blink

Sure. The third option you mentioned in one of your previous post may suggest divorce which is the topic of this discussion. If a vow was made in marriage such as "In sickness and in health..., for better or worse... 'till death do you part...", then it would seem to me that the individual with the question of divorce would have no option trying to "strong arm" someone with separation just because they may be clinically sick with depression. I think that kind of strong arm may hurt the husband more than help him. JMHO ;) =D

MissBrattified

02-04-2014 06:39 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrotherEastman (Post 1299941)

No, divorce isn't what I meant by "third option." Divorce should be avoided at all costs. "Third option" refers to when you give someone a choice (read: ultimatum) and they choose their own "third option." E.g., calling your bluff and doing whatever they please.

In all seriousness, I would only recommend separation in a severe situation, and it does sound like some intervention is needed here. If there is a trusted friend or pastor or family member, they need to be brought in to try to help with the situation. However, if the husband refuses to go to counseling or seek any kind of outside help, what would you suggest?

Jermyn Davidson

02-04-2014 09:25 PM

Re: Divorce?

Even if one isn't a Christian, as a matter of ethics, one doesn't divorce their spouse simply because the person is ill.

There just IS NOT a positive or Biblically sound way to spin this WHEN THE SPOUSE IS ILL.

Jermyn Davidson

02-04-2014 09:31 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1299778)

1 Corinthians 7:4,

While this primarily deals with "due benevolence", other aspects of the husband's body come into play, such as hygiene, when it affects the ability of the wife to so render.

So, in this, I say you have every right to demand he take care of himself. You can't force it, obviously, and if he is mentally ill, there isn't much else you can do on this end.

1 Corinthians 7:13-15,

Your husband, as you've relayed it, is now an unbeliever. And from what you've written, I don't think he is "pleased to dwell" with you.

After all, if he were pleased to dwell with you, he'd make some effort to contribute to the marriage in a meaningful way that made your life more enjoyable.

Since, apparently, he is not doing anything of the sort, I would call this a case of indirect abuse through abandonment of the vows he made to you when you married.

A man (or woman, even) doesn't have to be physically violent to be abusive. They don't have to yell or damage their spouse in any overt way. They just have to do things that hurt the recipient.

So this is what I say (and take it for what it's worth: a stranger on a message board giving an opinion):

He is abusing you psychologically and is not pleased to dwell with you. He is an unbeliever. He has not physically departed, but he's basically gone, nonetheless.

You are not under bondage, but are called to peace. You need not divorce the man. But I think you have the right, if everything you have shared is accurate, to leave.

You don't have the right to sign papers ending your marriage (unless or until marital infidelity can be proven), and so, you don't have the right to pursue a new life with a different man.

But you don't have to live in the squalor and destitution he has embraced and is forcing you to accept.

So, unless he is schizophrenic, or in desperate need of a mental hospital (meaning, he's just living this way out of his own choosing), then I would pack up and leave.

But before any of that, pray, fast, seek the Lord with all your heart, and hear from HIM first. And of course, as the Proverbs state, there is safety in the multitude of counselors. A local, Spirit-filled assembly led by anointed people of God can help much in this area.

When a person is suffering from depression, they often make poor choices and decisions. Depression causes that. Basically, you're advising someone to "leave" their spouse because their spouse has now become mentally ill.

Don't you see something wrong with this, at the most basic level-- regardless of how you dress it up?

votivesoul

02-04-2014 11:49 PM

Re: Divorce?

Jermyn, there is no evidence, at this moment, which can convince anyone that he is mentally ill. All that exists right now is message board speculation from people who have no ability to diagnosis such conditions.

And for the record, I did not tell her to leave her husband because he is mentally ill.

Reread:

Quote:

So, unless he is schizophrenic, or in desperate need of a mental hospital (meaning, he's just living this way out of his own choosing), then I would pack up and leave.

Which means that, if and only if he is simply living that way on purpose (as opposed to being mentally ill) then leaving is a viable option. But if he is sick, then that needs to be addressed and helped.

On a personal note, I lived for over 10 years with severe debilitating depression, requiring all sorts of meds and even hospitalization. I know what it's like to not be able to care for myself. I almost didn't survive.

And I can testify to this fact:

Depression such as this (or such as the husband in question may be suffering) is as much the result of unbelief and sin against God as it is about a brain chemical not doing a sufficient job of keeping a person healthy.

Her husband, even if he is mentally ill, needs JESUS more than a pill or a therapy session.

BrotherEastman

02-05-2014 08:10 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MissBrattified (Post 1299979)

I apologize for misinterpreting your post....please forgive me. As far as what I would suggest would be lots of prayer.:yourock

crakjak

02-06-2014 10:32 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson (Post 1300014)

Yes there is, when the spouse is dangerous!!

Jermyn Davidson

02-07-2014 07:44 AM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by crakjak (Post 1300423)

Yes there is, when the spouse is dangerous!!

"Till death do us part, or until you try to kill me"-- yeah that's how it goes.

Really, in that case (which happens), the person needs to be hospitalized.

Aquila

02-07-2014 07:46 AM

Re: Divorce?

A divorce might prove more emotionally exhausting and expensive than learning to cope and encouraging counseling until he is willing to finally go.

shazeep

02-07-2014 10:01 AM

Re: Divorce?

just an observation here, as i have never been married; i'm mostly struck here by his abandonment of her (in spirit), but y'all are discussing her possible separation from him. They are already separated, and he has instigated this. While i feel sympathy for him, a perfectly legit view is that he has decided to now take advantage of the relationship for as long as she will enable him to do so.

Scripturally speaking, he has no right to deteriorate his body, which belongs to her, or to abdicate his position as the head, and it seems obvious that nothing will change until she changes it. Ma'am, you might consider that spiritually and emotionally disengaging from him for a time would essentially be bowing to his will and desire--move into the spare room or something, and stop changing his diaper for awhile, imo. He is also a child of God, and God does not need your help here, possibly.

ILG	02-07-2014 10:54 AM

Re: Divorce?

I think she has every right to not be physical with him. I would say that is his choice by the choices he is making.

shazeep

02-07-2014 12:08 PM

Re: Divorce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILG (Post 1300520)

I think she has every right to not be physical with him. I would say that is his choice by the choices he is making.

that is my opinion also--now, if he did not respond to a little cold shoulder, then maybe some mental health intercession is indicated; but in the end one cannot provide __________ (happiness, contentment, fulfillment, whatever) for another person, and it could be argued that you are attempting to succumb to their invitation to be their 'source,' if that makes any sense--or deciding on your own that you will fill this role. One's actions come with consequences, and shielding him from these will prolly only bring you more pain.

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