When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Believe it or not, there are many times in one's personal walk when prayer is not indicated by Scripture as the primary device for "solving" one's problems! While this of course does not mean that an attitude of prayer is not essential in prolly every moment or situation, I think believers are taught a very amputated point of view about prayer, while conversely also an expanded one; lots of corporate prayer for things (that i don't find reflected in Scripture) where often a different 'device' (from the pattern shown us in the tabernacle, hint hint) is indicated. I'll come back and develop this later if no one helps. :D

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Prayer isn't effective when the prayer conflicts with the will of God, IMO. The issue then becomes one of how does one know the will of God?

I guess just scatter prayer out there and hope some takes root and produces.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

When casting out demons, as Jesus said, requires fasting and prayer. Sometimes prayer isn't enough. Deny your flesh from what it wants not just food altogether, as Daniel did, so that we show submission to what God wants.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

well--just on the fly here, i won't really have time until this evening--there are many indications, if not outright directives, of God's will for problem solving devices for a believer. The tabernacle is given for a pattern for them.

We are told specifically--for instance--that prayers for relief from one's government will not be heard; and the one about not bothering to pray for someone experiencing the consequences of the sin unto death is more well-known, although possibly poorly understood today...

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

What does it say about fornication? Flee it. Not to pray it out of your life, but to actually run from it.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Ah, now we're starting to get to the point here--i think that one is the door.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

As well as youthful lusts.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

As crazy as this may sound, a friend of mine jumped from a tree and accidentally landed on my dogs tail. (My friend WAS Methodist, and little bit on the heavy side.) I said, "dude, you just crushed my dogs tail!" And I ran over to my dog as she was whimpering. I held her tail in my hand, and I could feel where it was broken. I told him, "we are about to pray for my dog. He said, "what? Why are we gonna pray for a dog? That's stupid." I said, "bro, you just broke my dogs tail, and your gonna help me pray for it. Now grab her tail right here and start prayin' that God will heal her" we started praying and he looks up at me and says, "holy sshhh..........! Dude! I felt the bones come back together! O my god! O my god! O my god! That was hecka crazy!" I said, " wanna go to church with me Sunday? He said yes but it was a month or two before he actually came lol

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

It's not that far from Sikeston to Memphis. You should go to a place called St. Jude Hospital, they have a tremendous need for you there.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Lol have you been to sikeston before? Jw

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

ok, now just imagine his reaction if you had told him, "ya, i picked that up at my church--sorry, but you prolly wouldn't be interested in paying the price" or some similar--like Christ did, you know; "Count the cost"--instead of that proselytizing stuff the pastor showed you...

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

well, produces what? what are you expecting from your prayers; or what have you been taught to expect prayer to be efficacious for? Also your 'hope' there does not sound like 'confident expectation' to me--which believe me, i'm familiar with, that rather hopeless version of hope.

that is why i've been on about 'prayer' for the last week or so; having seen the (death-centered) Christianity we are provided in the West, initially a couple of years ago, i am just now seeing how the ptb in that area naturally would not want 'dead' Christians to have access to the still functional, and very powerful, problem solving devices that God has provided.

we largely pray to God as santa claus now, imo, and then either get discouraged, or invent some reason (wasn't in God's will) why the prayer was ineffective. please don't feel isolated here, as i'm doing the same thing! But really, the verse does not say "Whoever says to this mountain, after first verifying that it is in God's will..."

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

i'm telling you--stone cold atheists' that we might call 'successful' in worldly terms may possibly be having their 'prayers' answered more effectively than believers'! Tho that might be pushing it a bit, it also might not be. I'm looking for a Scriptural argument against that now, but strangely finding the promises in Scripture seem to apply to all or any...hmm.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Sounds like Matthew 5:45. "That ye may be the children of your father which is in heaven: For he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Seems like we all are allowed some blessing and benefit just from being alive on this earth.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

amen. and i'm getting the distinct impression from Scripture, there, and in many other places--the parable of the separation of sheep and goats, the declaration of he who holds fast until the end, etc., the someone we may have labeled believer prolly has no more truck with God than a Rothschild :lol

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Prayer isn't ever effective, automatically.

Praying just for the sake of doesn't accomplish anything.

Faith is key. The object of faith is key. Not working yourself into a wishful thinking deception, mind you. But true faith. Not faith in the prayer being answered, but faith in the One answering the prayer (a key difference).

Heathens think that they shall be heard because of their "much speaking".

People who regard iniquity in their hearts should not expect God to hear them.

The Baal worshipers at Mt. Carmel offered a massively INEFFECTIVE prayer.

Elijah asked God to take away his life, but nope.

Paul sought the Lord three times for the thorn in the flesh to go away, but was told no.

Paul also trusted that through Philemon's prayers, he would be delivered from prison. Didn't happen.

Esau sought repentance carefully with tears but didn't have it given to him.

Joshua wanted to weep before the Lord in repentance and the LORD told him to get up and stop it.

Samuel cried before the LORD for Saul, and God said "Too bad".

God told Jeremiah to stop praying for Judah.

These are all examples of "ineffective" prayer. Maybe a dissection of these different examples will bring out a better understanding of the elements of useless prayers (useless in the sense that they will not be answered by God in any affirmative, expected way).

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Just preached last night about when God is silent...

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Jesus prayed that his followers would be one, but....

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

Maybe they're one and just don't know it?

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

A reflection of His desire in the face of human stubborn willfulness. Just goes to show how free and independent we all are and can be that not even the Lord can have His own prayer for us answered.

And yet, there will come a day, when He comes through those clouds that echad will be achieved by those faithful few who submitted to His will and not their own, in this area (and all others).

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

The Mormons? :heeheehee

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

I recently read a book "Is God To Blame" by a Greg Boyd. The author gives some theories why sometimes prayer seems not to be effective. The chaotic universe, all the variables of life, as well as the competing wills' and our own tendency to passiveness due to a "blueprint" worldview. Very interesting.

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

I wonder if those don't largely explain our lack of public (at least) miracles; maybe 'a time for everything,' in a sense?Well, Acts testifies that they were, right? For a brief time. These were some of the last recorded 'miracles' in Scripture; I've always wondered why no tongues recorded at this point (the 'Ananias' time) and also, why, at the very inception of the dispensation of Grace, we have two deaths that seem to be OT?

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

When you treat your wife badly!

Re: When is prayer NOT effective?
 

:lol