Hair and Nature?
 

What does Paul mean by "Nature"?

the NET bible commentary says

1Co 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,

5 sn Paul does not mean nature in the sense of "the natural world" or "Mother Nature." It denotes "the way things are" because of God's design.

So..

1Co 11:14 Does not the way things are because of God's design itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,

Comments?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Does any other Bible commentaries say that this is what Paul was trynig to say?

If so, I find this interpretation troubling.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

i might too; until i watch a guy with long hair do that hand-flip thing with his hair, then it gets clearer? :lol

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

:spit

Seriously, that interpretation, in light of Samson and his Nazarite Vow, is problematic for me.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

The NET bible is more of an exegetical commentary. Most commentaries don't have men like Daniel Wallace contributing

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

hmm, my take there is that that is OT #1, Sampson is maybe a special case #2, and you should go with what you are comfortable with above all else. i've found that for anything one tries to 'prove' with Scripture, its opposite seems to also be 'provable,' thus maintaining the mirror? I dislike 'codifying' the Spirit, and i think the Spirit should guide one in these matters.

As an example, when i hear 'long hair,' my image is of hair at least halfway down ones back. 'Long hair' to you might be touching the shoulders. Etc

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

JFB

1Co 11:14 The fact that nature has provided woman, and not man, with long hair, proves that man was designed to be uncovered, and woman covered. The Nazarite, however, wore long hair lawfully, as being part of a vow sanctioned by God (Num_6:5). Compare as to Absalom, 2Sa_14:26, and Act_18:18.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Male lions have the mane, = nature.

Num 6:5
...and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow."

what exactly are 'the locks?' they have a specific word for sidelocks, i guess...

what is JFB, Prax?...just for...um.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Wouldn't a man's hair be long if he never cut it?

Aren't some women's hair short, regardless of what they try or do?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Hmm; mightn't Sampson's hair have stopped growing at some point, a la a lion's mane? i have trouble envisioning Sampson at work with Pentecostal female hair...so there you go. kind of like the women in your example, can't grow hair past a certain length, maybe.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

1Co 11:14 Does not nature itself teach you that if a man wears long hair it is a disgrace for him,

How long is long?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

uncut of course :D

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I'm thinking the way that "nature" teaches against long hair on men is men are much more likely to become bald than are women.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I don't know, but for the record "Have long hair" is from one word

89.87 καίb; δέb: markers of a sequence of closely related events—‘and, and then.’
καίb: εἰσῆλθον ὑπὸ τὸν ὄρθρον εἰς τὸ ἱερὸν καὶ ἐδίδασκον ‘at dawn they entered the Temple and taught’ Ac 5:21.
δέb: Ἀβραὰμ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰσαάκ, Ἰσαὰκ δὲ ἐγέννησεν τὸν Ἰακώβ ‘Abraham was the father of Isaac and Isaac was the father of Jacob’ Mt 1:2.


Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (788). New York: United Bible Societies.


49.25 κομάω: to wear long hair as part of one’s attire—‘to have long hair, to appear with long hair, to wear long hair.’ γυνὴ δὲ ἐὰν κομᾷ δόξα αὐτῇ ἐστιν ‘if a women wears long hair, it is a pride for her’ 1 Cor 11:15. In a number of languages it may be necessary to translate κομάω as ‘to let one’s hair grow long’ or ‘not to cut one’s hair.’

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Vol. 1: Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: Based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition.) (526). New York: United Bible Societies.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I believe Paul, men ought to have short hair. IMO

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

How short is short?

After determining how long is long and how short is short, let's apply it equally to men and women.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

All one must do to determine how short a mans hair must be must go back to the history of the Jewish men in Jesus day. That simple really, and I do hope you don't think Jesus had long hair like pictures depict.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Here is one of many places you can go to determine hair length in Jesus day. reg.org/articles/djhlh.html Good hunting!

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

You're right. :nod

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I am most certain about this, thanks for agreeing MawMaw.:highfive

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

YW! :highfive

I can't get that link to work...did you leave something out?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I'm assuming you're referencing the hair of Jesus in the picture below? Whould you consider that long hair? How about if that was the hair length on a woman?

I'm just trying to apply the same rule to both men and women considering hair length.

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/i...Qnvo46BI4P-dMQ

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Well, I can't get it to work either aint that something? You could always Google "did Jesus have long hair?"

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Yes, I would consider that long hair in the picture.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Yes....but the word nature?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

You believe this is accurate?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

OK, did that and it worked! :)


(maybe this link also works now?)

http://rcg.org/articles/djhlh.html

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

While some debate whether it was Paul or Aquila who had their head shorn and whether the vow was a Nazarite vow in Acts 18:18, I would wonder at the explanation in bold.

We have posted, in a different discussion, a reference to the Greek meaning for "uncut" found here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/...tomos0#lexicon

What I would really wonder at is that Paul, while telling a man that it is a shame to have his hair long, would seemingly, and in effect, be forcing a Nazarite vow on every woman for all time. I have been of the understanding that a Nazarite vow was voluntary. So the definition in the Louw, J. P., & Nida is troubling.

And as Newman had mentioned on FCF, why would Paul need to reach outside the Greek when speaking to a Greek audience?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

On a woman?

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I don't understand the last part of reaching outside the Greek..

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Very good article.

However, I am immediately reminded of black women and african women who just don't have hair that "covers their neck and ears".

And isn't all of this contigent on the condition that "it is a shame" for a woman to have short hair?

What if it is not a shame for a woman to have short hair? Isn't it interesting to anyone else that at the first church council, the Jewish Apostles didn't include this hair discussion in their list of things the new Gentile converts must do? Is there a cultural "thing" (theirs or ours) to this discussion that we are not taking into consideration?

For example, women must be silent in church and cannot practice rulership over men-- even the most conservative churches do not adhere to "the letter" of these directives.



Some short-ish hairstyles on some women is actually very attractive and still very feminine.

Just like most (if not all) pants designed for women are distinctively feminine in style, cut, etc.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

a commentary

"In 1 Corinthians 11:15 it says that a woman's hair is given to her for a covering, which can also be translated, "instead of a covering." Women express their response to authority with their hair. Long hair symbolizes submission to the authority of the Right Man. Short hair refers to being contentious. And a shaved head represents shame, or one who is jaded." hmm

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

No, it isn't.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Your commentary is neither biblical nor the truth. There are many women that have long hair that are very contentious without one iota of submission to her husband. While there are many, many women with cut hair that are sweet spirited and cooperative with beautiful attitudes. And of course vise versa.
You focus on "authority", Jesus was a servant leader and He calls us to be the same. It quite simply is not the outward appearance, rather the aroma of a sweet and loving spirit, even the Spirit of Jesus!!
Jesus loved all, He embraced every kind of sinner....of course He did it to make sure the women quit cutting their hair, and the men to cut theirs.....not.
I am quite conservative, but I must tell you your focus is just wrong...

Just get the Spirit of truth, deep in your gut, and whether you are a fashion cookie cutter of external standards or not, that sweet spirit of truth and life will flow right out of you just like a refreshing stream of clear water.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

oh, my bad--not mine. and tho i agree to your descriptions, something rung true in the commentary. no offense to gay women per se, but short hair is viewed as 'dikey.' Long hair is fem, requires attention, maintenance. the last shaved head on a girl i saw was the militant singer lady. Bjork? maybe. sure, they are generalizations. but.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

personally, i find long hair on a woman beautiful, yet am somehow attracted to short-haired women. i like bit...strong-willed women, and for some reason, even tho a woman with long hair might be more strong willed than a random shorty...yada yada. just a reflection, not trying to rep proof. Short haired women are more likely to be CEOs, or in managing positions. is that true? i have no idea, bc i just made it up! :lol it strikes me as a valid generalization.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

Simply that you are reaching outside of the Greek language to interpret κομάω if you find that "In a number of languages it may be necessary to translate κομάω as ‘to let one’s hair grow long’ or ‘not to cut one’s hair.’"

Newman, was saying she didn't understand why that would be necessary.

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I have one of these signed and dated.



































jk

:heeheehee

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

:toofunny

And I thought my signed Zig Ziglar book, See You At the Top, was special. :heeheehee

Re: Hair and Nature?
 

I'm not sure of the implication or if there is even a tie in, but I did find it interesting that the word Paul used in I Cor 11:14 for NATURE comes from the same root word that the Apostle uses in Rom. 1:27 for NATURAL.

1Co 11:14 Doth(G2228) not even G3761 nature G5449 itself G846 teach G1321 you,G5209 that,G3754 if G1437 a man G435 have long hair,(G2863) it is G2076 a shame G819 unto him? G846

Rom 1:27 And G5037 likewise G3668 also G2532 the G3588 men,G730 leaving G863 the G3588 natural G5446 use G5540 of the G3588 woman,G2338 burned G1572 in G1722 their G848 lust G3715 one toward another;G240 G1519 men G730 with G1722 men G730 working G2716 that which is unseemly,G808 and G2532 receiving G618 in G1722 themselves G1438 that recompence G489 of their G848 error G4106 which G3739 was meet.G1163

G5446φυσικός
phusikos
foo-see-kos'

From G5449; “physical”, that is, (by implication) instinctive: - natural.
Compare G5591.