The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

True if one would repent and be baptized in Jesus name and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

And keep the faith, fight the good fight, endure to the end. And hate your family. (Figuratively speaking, of course. :winkgrin)

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Don't forget to count the cost. You know, for "free" salvation.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

(BTW, Robert, did you know there is an "ignore" feature here? Just in case. :))

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

So much for the free gift...

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Are you worth saving?

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

In other words... it is "free"... to those who earn it?

I believe,

Romans 8:30
English Standard Version (ESV)
30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

It's an unbroken chain. God predestined His elect children in accordance to His love, will, and desire. And it is the elect whom He has called (John 6:44), and justified in Christ Jesus (Romans 5:1), and it is we who are glorified in Christ (Ephesians 1:4).

When we begin to realize that God has a sovereign plan for mankind and that God intervened to save an elect body unto Himself and that God pursues, calls, chastens, and wrestles with that elect body to bring them to salvation... we'll truly understand what it means to be saved by grace alone. God isn't dependent upon us to pardon ourselves. No man can pardon himself. It takes the sovereign will of the one with authority to pardon. And he pardons whom He will.

Salvation is the work of God in us, His chosen. It isn't something we can earn by thought, word, or deed. We can even resist for a time... yet God's grace will overpower us and bring us to the end of our rebellion. Don't believe me? Ask Saul of Tarsus. He learned the hard way that "kicking against the pricks" (resisting God's saving power) only led to him being knocked off his horse and blinded by God.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

God's grace convicts the elect sinner... and the sinner repents.

The church baptizes the convert in the name of Jesus.

God Himself fills them with the Spirit.

Technically... the sinner need only to repent under the efficacious calling of grace when salvation presented with a body who preaches a "biblical" Gospel.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

If it cost you something it really isn't free? :heeheehee

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Actually not necessarily true. What makes something free seems to be the initial cost is paid and you receive it not at the stated cost. But to receive something whether free or not nearly always cost you something whether it be time, energy, or effort.

Think of a soup kitchen offering free food. Is the food no longer free because someone had to actually walk to the place? Or is it no longer free because someone had to wait in line? Time, effort, energy are all things we use to sometimes measure the cost of something. But if someone gives us something that initially cost money to acquire it we will still consider it a free gift even if it cost time, energy, or effort to receive it.

So cost and free are subjective terms. And it depends on what is the subject matter when determining if something is free or if there's a cost.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Discount salvation?

I don't buy that. I believe that salvation is paid in full. It truly is... "finished".

The Bible says...

Ephesians 2:8-10
King James Version (KJV)
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

No one can boast of anything. It's not of ourselves. It's not predicated on works of righteousness of any kind. If it were, one could boast of their works as being relevant to their salvation. We are God's own workmanship, His masterpieces. Created in Jesus Christ unto good works, good works which God preordained that we should show because we are saved... not to be saved.

Jesus says this...

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Before any man or woman is saved, the Father must first draw them. If one isn't drawn by the Father... they can't be saved... even if they go through all the intellectual gymnastics of theological belief. They can't be saved even if they make a mental ascent to all that the Bible teaches. They can't be saved even if they live saintly lives. Salvation begins in the heart and mind of God, predicated upon His sovereign and divine will concerning His elect. His sheep know His voice... and He calls them by name. The Father draws the soul to Christ through an efficacious call of the Spirit. It never returns void. Oh, a man or woman can resist for a season, but God always triumphs over the will and mind of man. He is... God... and there is no other. Salvation is about Him demonstrating His mercy and grace as He so chooses, upon the absolutely depraved, unworthy, and spiritually dead. We didn't earn this drawing of the Father. We love Him because... He first loved us. While we were yet sinners, DEAD in trespasses and sin,... Christ died for the ungodly. When we begin to understand that salvation begins with the very drawing of God (who draws only those whom He has chosen before the foundations of the world) we realize that our salvation is God's work... not our own. It is indeed... a free gift unto God's elect children by grace.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

I did back up and consider the possibility of "cost"... and this is what I feel in the Spirit...

If their is any "cost" involved... it is the surrender of the will and ego to God's absolute sovereignty. To surrender all entitlement based on one's own works. To receive such unsearchable grace and riches... while finding one's self absolutely unworthy. The cost isn't connected to earning the salvation of God. It is with receiving the salvation of God. One must surrender their own sense of control and personal sovereignty/independence... "self". Now... throw your hands up in the air and count the cost of grace... a cost paid in full on Mt. Calvary. Stop trying to earn it or pay for it. Accept it. Surrender. Be humbled. Be abased. Accept the will of God concerning your calling and election. Stop struggling, trying to earn that which you couldn't earn in 10 billion years, could you even live that long. Embrace salvation by faith... then turn and live a life filled with the very same unconditional love shown unto you.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

So technically, salvation costs more than one's "life". It costs one's entire sense of "self".

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

It cost you everything.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Amen. Especially the notion that we have anything to offer to earn such grace. Our righteousness is like filthy rags to God. We'd no sooner be able to build a wooden ladder to Heaven. It's all His work, from start to finish:

Romans 8:30
Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

There are no promises in the Bible without condition. You can clearly see that in Deut 28:1-2 - "And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: 2And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. "

Also, the Gospel comes with condition - "(5)Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer: (6) Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; (7) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8)In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; 2 Thessalonians 1:5-9

With the obedience of the Disciples, they have been given gifts - "(7) As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ (8) Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give." Matthew 10:5-8

Free (freely given) only alludes to our obedience and the fact that we couldn't have done any of these things on our own. We need God's help which we receive through our obedience to Him.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

While in full agreement concerning election and the sovereignty of God what do you think about the verse before the one quoted?

8:28 We know that all things work together for good for those who love God, to those who are called according to his purpose. 8:29 For whom he foreknew, he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 8:30 Whom he predestined, those he also called. Whom he called, those he also justified. Whom he justified, those he also glorified. Rom 8:28-30

It is his purpose or "work" to conform men to the image of Christ. Suppose "believers" DO NOT wind up being LIKE JESUS? Suppose they continue in sin? They wind up dying with sin in their life?

Since as you say the work is all HIS, who is to blame?

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

You're creating a false dichotomy.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Really? Supporting scripture is false dichotomy? Are you wishing that obedience didn't play a part? Is it because sometimes that is hard?

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Interesting. We agree on election and sovereignty. Michael... this is important. We actually agree on something. Praise God my brother! lol We may disagree on predestination. But there is room for disagreement on this doctrine. Here is my understanding...

Jesus said,

John 6:39
And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

It's the Father's will that Jesus lose none of those drawn and delivered to Jesus. Will Jesus accomplish the Father's will??? Of course He will. God never fails. Christ never fails. God will not be upset way up in Heaven saying,

"Gosh, I had elected and called that guy and I just couldn't get him to turn around... *sniff, sniff*... I guess the devil got that one."

No. God knows exactly how to bring the elect to their knees, to bring them to the end of themselves, to bring them to surrender... to bring them home. Saul was determined to go and persecute Christians. Why didn't God honor Saul's free will??? God had a plan for him, that's why. God knew the exact right time to knock Saul off that horse, confront him with his stubbornness, and blind him... directing him to find Ananias. God isn't challenged to save a man. He's GOD.

Therefore, if God has predetermined His will for you... He will not be left empty handed, thwarted by His creation. He will bring His elect children to the place wherein they are secure in Christ. If it appears that God allows them to fall away... it was allows that a truth might be manifest. They were never of the elect... even if they tasted of the heavenly gifts.

The other side of that question could be, who can take the credit?

Will any flesh (or human being) glory in His presence? Will He share His glory with another? Nope. God isn't our partner in salvation. God is our GOD. He alone is our Salvation.

God is never "to blame". God is always just. Those who fall away... they fell away that it might be manifest that they were never a part of the elect. Plain and simple.

We often forget... whatsoever God desires, is what is right. And always will be. We cannot judge God and blame Him for anything. Whatsoever God determines and appoints will happen... and it will be right. God has all authority, sovereignty, and power. In all things... what God chooses is good. Even if we can't see it with our finite minds. God is the Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and the End. The First and the Last. The author and the finisher of our faith. This drama isn't about us. It's not about you. It's not about me. It's about Him and His sovereign glory. It's about HIM working out the salvation He has determined in us to His own glory.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Subjective presupposition.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

So then could one say that every one that is ELECT will be LIKE JESUS? That all the elect will overcome sin and live a life of holiness?

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Free....as it relates to salvation, I think there is something lost in translation.

None of us have the wherewithall to purchase from God, Eternal Life in his presence.
Thus when he gives us salvation, it is indeed a "Free Gift" Free in that we cannot purchase it because we have not the abiity to do so.

But that does not mean the gift is without parameters. If that were so, Paul would not have said of grace "what then? shall we sin? God forbid!"

We would not have any of the epistles written to us, the elect of God.

Nor would we have the words of Jesus in Luke 14
27"Whoever does not carry his own cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple. 28"For which one of you, when he wants to build a tower, does not first sit down and calculate the cost to see if he has enough to complete it? 29"Otherwise, when he has laid a foundation and is not able to finish, all who observe it begin to ridicule him,…


Jesus is not suggesting that there is a price we must pay to gain salvation, however clearly He indicates there is a price we must weigh to walk the path he lays before us.

Free? Certainly.
Without condition? certainly not.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

elbow macaronii!

i can use big words too!

:heeheehee

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

lol

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Ultimately, yes. That's the work of God. And this process is our sanctification... and it ends upon our glorification. It's a life long process. Yet, it should be said that healthy spiritual growth will see increasing Christlikeness.

However, we do well to caution. We're not talking about being conformed into the image of the humanity of Jesus, that Jewish man who lived 2,000 years ago. Nope. We're talking about the glorified Christ Jesus who is God. We too shall partake in the divine nature. And we shall ultimately be like Him. Therefore, to aspire to legalistic codifications or Judiazation to attain "Christlikeness" fails the test. To simply be one with Christ, in spirit, He in the Father, the Father in Him, and He in us... union. Oneness. The divine essence of divine love, authority, and power flowing through us. That's the holiness we aspire to. Loving God with all our being... and demonstrating that love by loving others as ourselves... that is the entire law fulfilled. For God is love. And when we love we are being most like Him. Not when we dress a certain way or do certain things. Love. When we allow unconditional divine love to flow through us... He is flowing through us and living through us. There is no higher state of holiness.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

For example... one might say, "I'm like Jesus. Because I keep these commandments....", and he lists them as he understands them presently or has been taught them by another human authority. (subjective)

Another says, "I'm like Jesus. Because I am one with Him. I keep no commandment but love. He lives through me. He is the True Vine... I am but a branch. Just as the branch and the vine are single organism... I and the Lord are one spirit. My Lord Jesus and the Father are one. I and the Lord Jesus are one. I am crucified with Christ, and yet I live. Not I... but Christ who lives within me."

1 Corinthians 6:17
But he who is joined to the Lord becomes one spirit with him.

Partaking of the divine nature. Holiness in being... not in codified lists of deeds.

2 Peter 1:4

2 Peter 1:4
4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature

Oneness...

John 14:20
In that day you will know that I am in my Father, and you in me, and I in you.

Dare one say it? ... Oneness with God, through Christ, by the Spirit.
(An objective reality of Scripture to be reckoned by faith as simply being so.)

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

If people would realize there are at least 2 phases to salvation. The initial forgiveness of sins and receiving the Spirit is the free gift. Then comes that narrow path where we must overcome and endure. All by the Spirit of God of course.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

... of course. ;)

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

When you guys get it figured out, let me know. :heeheehee

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

I guess someone forgot to tell the apostles we are not called to be the same as Jesus.

In this love has been made perfect among us, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment, because as he is, even so are we in this world. 1 John 4:17

Only those who are like Jesus NOW have any assurance of FINAL salvation.

Anyone who claims to be IN HIM is supposed to be walking AS HE WALKED.

But whoever keeps his word, God’s love has most certainly been perfected in him. This is how we know that we are in him: 2:6 he who says he remains in him ought himself also to walk just like he walked. 1 John 2:5-6

So it is at PRESENT we are to be like JESUS.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

I would say that salvation from the day you turn around, to the day you enter into heaven, is the free gift.

at the same time, that gift has conditions. You cannot recieve forgiveness of your sins, if you are not sorry for, nor willing to cease the behavior, no matter how much you want the gift of salvation.

Every day is a choice on my part to walk toward God. When I fall, I choose to either get up or wallow in the mud I have fallen into.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Good post, Ferdinand! :thumbsup

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Thought this letter from Pastor Saeed (Serving an 8-year sentence for his Christian faith in Iran) would be appropriate for this thread.



Crucifying the resurrected “self” with Christ and resurrects our death faith with Christ.

Happy Resurrection Day.

On the Eve of Good Friday and Easter I was praying from my hospital room for my fellow Christians in the world. What the Holy Spirit revealed to me in prayer was that there are many dead faiths in the midst of Christians today. That Christians all over the world are not able to fully reach their spiritual potential that has been given to them as a gift by God so that in reaching that potential, the curtain can be removed and the Glory of God would be revealed.

Some times we want to experience the Glory and resurrection with Jesus without experiencing death with Him. We do not realize that unless we pass through the path of death with Christ, we are not able to experience resurrection with Christ.

We want to have a good and successful marriage, career, education and family life (which is also God’s desire and plan for our life). But we forget that in order to experience the Resurrection and Glory of Christ we first have to experience death with Christ and to die to ourselves and selfish desires.

Jesus said to His Disciples: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me. (Matthew 16:24)

This means that we should not do things that we like to do (that God does not want us to do) and to do things that we do not like to do (but God wants us to do) so that He may be glorified.

So in addition to spending our days and night in doing the works of faith as described above, we should also transform our death faiths into living and active faiths through the resurrection of Christ which is an active and constructive love that is effective.

In conclusion, let us resurrect our Dead faiths to living faiths by first dying to our selfish “resurrected” self and experiencing the cross of Jesus. Then we are able to experience the Glorious resurrection with Christ.

A Glorious life with Christ starts only after a painful death (to self) with Christ.

We will start with Christ.

Pastor Saeed Abedini
Prisoner in the Darkness in Iran, but free for the Kingdom and Light

http://aclj.org/iran/american-pastor...rkness-of-iran

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Spoken from wisdom and experience.

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

Is that you again, Trying2bRight/Robert Sanders?

Re: The Free Gift of Salvation
 

I was wondering that, myself. ;)