Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

http://www.charismanews.com/opinion/...manifestations

Bill Johnson senior pastor of Bethel in Redding CA... Talks abut and shows video of a "glory cloud".

Any thoughts?

I'm skeptical.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Skeptical too. Certainly something was going on, as you could see in the video that people had their phones out trying to capture it.

I have heard through the years that people have seen a "glory" cloud hovering over a worship service at its height, but those stories were about worship services that were held at camp meetings with a lot of people moving around, and could have been created by dust.

I don't doubt that God can manifest, and do things outside our natural realm of reasoning, and understanding. However, to follow those signs and wonders is dangerous. That is where the problem lies. When people begin to follow the signs and wonders, instead of Jesus, that is where the road forks.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

The possibilities of this being a "natural" or a "staged" phenomenon is very very high, and easily duplicated IMO.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I am skeptical of anything from Redding, CA. They focus too much on supernatural things that the enemy can just as easily do, or be fleshly engineered.

But I pastured a church where in the past, before my pastorate, fire trucks came and the firemen ran into e building after a reported sighting of flames on the roof. They ran in to find a rockin Holy Ghost worship service taking place.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

It is interesting to note that in the days of Jesus and the apostles, God never chose to have feathers come down or gold or jewels. I guess he felt things like healings, casting out demons and feeding large groups of people were more important. He did things that meant something.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Exactly. Things that had a practical purpose.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Exactly! We've turned the power of God into sensationalism as though we live in a Disney movie. Ridiculous.

I believe in the supernatural. I believe we need to allow God to be "super" and us be "natural".

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Amen. God can do the supernatural, but chicken feathers and glitter, fog machines, dust or humidity are such flimsy claims.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I am skeptical of feathers falling, gold dust, etc ...

However, I can attest to the fact of an actual physical smoky cloud covering the altar when several were receiving the Holy Ghost. The church was fairly small - probably no more than 75 were in that service. Approximately 7 or 8 young people / children and some adults were being filled with the Holy Ghost - the area around the altar was actually smoky - there was nothing to explain it - other than the presence of God being so strong. This was a looooooooooong time before fog machines were used in churches. Back in the 60's. (I received the Holy Ghost the next night - no glory cloud that night.) :(

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

God is not in the business of "entertaining us" though you would not know that from some churches and ministries. If our faith is such that we need feathers, gold dust, gold teeth, jewels, clouds and whatever else comes along, then something is wrong. God did not do similar anywhere in the Bible, but that doesn't stop those who promote these things. Instead, some mock and belittle when a person asks them for any scripture to back up these events.

Look back at when Jesus performed miracles - real miracles - and people still did not turn to God. People are not going to turn to God or be kept in him by these other so-called acts of God, which are not real miracles.

Others can seek and long for those things. Someone somewhere will give them what they want. For me, I have no desire for "entertainment" or following after signs.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I have seen the "glory cloud" twice.

Trust me it does NOT look like dust kicked up in the air.

Once years ago a brother and I were praying at church, around 11 PM, alone. I saw what appeared to be mist or a cloud covering the ceiling

When we finished praying we went outside and talked for a while. I looked up and saw a rectangular cloud..it reminded me of a pillar on it's side. I asked the brother if he saw it and he said "See what?". When I looked at him to see if he was looking, he was looking up and said "Oh yeah! Now I see it"

When I looked back up the "cloud" was further up in the sky. Clouds don't float upwards into space

The next time was at a Camp meeting. There was no dirt on the ground to kick up. Nobody was running or jumping. We were all standing still. Most people were just worshiping or crying. You could see what appeared like a cloud had filled the place. It was hovering over our heads.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I'm a skeptic.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Yeah me too ILG! It seems the people making the claim are generally stroking their ego... That appears to be the case in the CA pastor video (IMHO).

Then again I have no reason to think that or doubt Praxes accounts.

I have not ever remotely experienced something like that. It's weird to me, and I don't understand why God would do such.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Yeah me too ILG! It seems the people making the claim are generally stroking their ego... That appears to be the case in the CA pastor video (IMHO).

Then again I have no reason to think that or doubt Praxes accounts.

I haven't even remotely experienced something like that. It's weird to me, and I don't understand why God would do such.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

yeah skeptic here too...this comes from someone that used to eat stuff like this up...then I realized that the power of suggestion is a powerful thing.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

My first impression was they were putting on a show to impress people. It's hard to believe, but people actually do that kind of stuff.....

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I used to eat up stuff like that too until I finally figured out that not all that glitters is gold. I can't imagine hiring people to set up smoke machines to deceive the members of my congregation (as this man is), who trust me. Unfortunately, people do that.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Exo 13:21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of cloud to lead them along the way, and by night in a pillar of fire to give them light, that they might travel by day and by night.

Exo 16:10 And as soon as Aaron spoke to the whole congregation of the people of Israel, they looked toward the wilderness, and behold, the glory of the LORD appeared in the cloud.

Exo 19:9 And the LORD said to Moses, "Behold, I am coming to you in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with you, and may also believe you forever." When Moses told the words of the people to the LORD,

Exo 24:15 Then Moses went up on the mountain, and the cloud covered the mountain.
Exo 24:16 The glory of the LORD dwelt on Mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days. And on the seventh day he called to Moses out of the midst of the cloud.

Exo 40:34 Then the cloud covered the tent of meeting, and the glory of the LORD filled the tabernacle.

It's a common OT theme. Rabbis referred to t as Shekinah, before the mystics later incorporated it into Kabbalistic philosophy

NT
Mat 17:5 He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, "This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him."

Act 1:9 And when he had said these things, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight.

1Co 10:1 I want you to know, brothers, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea,

"Cloud" and "glory" referred to the same thing. You can see this theme of "glory" in the NT. We all experience this Glory all the time...we just don't always SEE it.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I was always skeptical of the glitter stuff. And from what I've experienced it most certainly does not look like a smoke machine. It looks more like a cloud that just appears and hovers. Smoke machines "push" the "smoke" out with a fan.

What I saw doesn't move around like that

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I was reading in Joel this morning, and read these verses:

Prax, I don't doubt that you saw something supernatural when you saw the "glory cloud".

I do doubt the glitter, gold, and feathers though.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Kept, it would appear to me that verses 30 and 31 would be speaking of the end days. I don't believe one should isolate "pillars of smoke" from those two in an attempt to show people will see clouds in services.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I have never ever believed in the glitter, feathers and other stuff.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Then the end days began with the outpouring on Pentecost

Act 2:16 But this is what was uttered through the prophet Joel:
Act 2:17 "'And in the last days it shall be, God declares, that I will pour out my Spirit on all flesh, and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams;
Act 2:18 even on my male servants and female servants in those days I will pour out my Spirit, and they shall prophesy.
Act 2:19 And I will show wonders in the heavens above and signs on the earth below, blood, and fire, and vapor of smoke;
Act 2:20 the sun shall be turned to darkness and the moon to blood, before the day of the Lord comes, the great and magnificent day.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

When one can say they have seen the other signs mentioned in Acts 2:19 & 20, then I will believe that the smoke mention could be used to show God promised to send clouds to us in services. These two are separate from what was seen on the day of Pentecost. I believe these two are in reference to things described in Revelations.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

I believe those clouds of smoke speak of judgment and destruction from the Lord.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Now folks... can you handle the WORD? Water out of a rock??? Birds flying so low by the thousands and ALL could reach out & grab a wonderful dinner? Water into wine? "Thy sins be forgiven you" Careful of trying to keep your Little and totally organized god in your box.. He'll break out!

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Bishop, that will preach right there!

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

The Cloud...or the Glory, is already in our services. You don't usually see it

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Amen!

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

True, but the people weren't looking for these things. They followed God and He made it happen. Today, many are looking for gold, fog and glitter instead of just living faithfully and with sobriety.

It reminds me of those that wanted the fishes and loaves, but they didn't want to go to the cross with Him.

The people were so moved by the miracles that Paul was performing that they wanted to touch him with their aprons and handkerchiefs taking them to the sick who could not be present.

Today we are anointing handkerchiefs with oil and passing them out. That isn't the story in Acts 19. I do believe faith moves God, but we can take certain items and make gold and glitter out of it. I don't need a handkerchief, I just need faith and a prayer.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

This right here is what the NT church should be about. This is what I call gold and glitter.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...89&postcount=1

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Prax, just for the record, I am not attempting to discredit what you say you saw.

What concerns me is any attempt to claim the Bible states we will be seeing God perform things like feathers falling in service, jewels, gold dust, gold teeth, and, yes, even clouds.

Absolutely, God's glory is present when believers gather.

This does not pertain to putting God in a box. My God is by no means little.

What you shared is quite different from gold dust appearing in a service or feathers falling or anything similar. Are you aware that people have actually been caught planting these items? Or that alleged gold dust has been found to be nothing more than the glitter you buy in the store? Or that people who have claimed to received a gold filling "forgot" that their dentist put it in?

And, incidentally, the people paid a price for wanting more than the manna.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

God didn't say "Ye shall see", but it did happen in the bible

Same goes with angels.

IF you study the Glory (Shekina) you'll see many NT references to it as Light, Glory and Presence. Sometimes we hear of the Glory of God being seen and at other times we don't.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

People lifting theirs hands to and praising a cloud?

I say "Nehushtan". Trust in the LORD God of Israel like King Hezekiah (2 Kings 18:1-5).

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Has no one in their pre-Christian days ever been to a concert in which similar clouds are manifested over a bunch of sweaty people, especially near super hot stage lights? Or am I the only one?

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Bill Johnson, Bethel and Jesus Culture are wayyyy out there. Johnson even promotes what's referred to as "grave sucking."

Grave sucking is where you go to a graveyard where an empowered believer was buried. You then either place your hand on the tombstone or lay on top of the tombstone and pray that the power this believer had is transferred to you.

Source Link

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

It's interesting reading the comment sections of these articles.

This one made me chuckle:

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

Wow, that is just so weird! That is what happens when people begin to follow "miracles, signs and wonders" and take their eyes off the Lord Jesus, and follow these things. The enemy knows no limits when it comes to delusion.

Re: Glory Clouds And Gold, or Fog and Glitter?
 

There is nothing new under the sun. Ancient Catholics used to meet in graveyards and catacombs, not to hide, but to be near the bodies of departed saints and martyrs, even to the point of idolizing relics of their corpses.

It is astounding to see how quickly the Charismatic movement, more so than any other group, is descending into medieval Catholic mysticism. I wonder why?