Homosexuality question
 

Most of us would agree that homosexuality is a sin. Other than "the bible says so." Why is it a
Sin?

I have been talking to a kid for a few days. He is gay and has been looking for a church. Today he asked why it's wrong for him to be gay. Why is it wrong for him to love a man.

Other than "the bible says so" I didn't have an answer, so I haven't replied.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Romans 1 implies that it is a violation of the image of God, and that is a serious deal. It is something to which a person is given over for putting the image of God down to that of animals and creeping things. Hence, it is associated with marring the very image of God that man is.

I don't know how to explain that to a 23 year old that doesn't have much of a Christian foundation.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

I think context matters a lot. Why is he asking, in what context? Does he feel like God can't/won't/doesn't love him because he's gay? Is he asking because he feels like he has to change before he could be a Christian, or because he feels like he can't be a Christian because he's gay?

Or does he just want to know why homosexuality in general is wrong? The way you worded it, it sounds like he's asking from a very personal position.

I'd word the answer differently depending on which way he's asking the question. Why is homosexuality wrong? Because it's counter to the best that God has for His people.

If he's asking personally, finding the real question matters more than answering the spoken question. If he's asking because he isn't sure if God can love him the way he is, the answer focuses on how we're all sinners, we're all so far from what God has in store for us, for what He has planned for us, from the perfection that He is and yet He still loves us and pursues us and desires for us to know Him regardless of what kind of mess we are when we first take note of Him. The answer needs to focus on how God does have amazing plans for us, that He sees the future, that He knows the potential of what/who we can be. As we get to know Him, He changes us from the inside out. He transforms our thinking, our behavior, our thoughts. The more we know Him, the more we become like Him. From the moment we surrender to Him, we are to love God with the totality of everything that we are....and God can change *all* things to conform to His best for our lives. And most of all, even if He doesn't.....He is great and glorious and worthy of all of our praise. He sees a picture bigger than we can ever imagine and somehow the pieces we would rather see changed fit into it in such a way that they bring magnificent glory to God. His grace is sufficient even in places where we struggle.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Scripture employs the motif of marriage, which it defines as being between one man and one woman (Gen 2:24), as the most intimate example or likeness of the relationship Christ has with his Church (Eph 5:23-27). And it is only within the context of lifelong monogamous, heterosexual marriage that Scripture sanctions sexual intimacy, precisely because of what marriage represents: Christ's union with his Bride.

Any other sexual relations- even between heterosexuals- which falls outside this context is not reflective of that relationship, and is therefore, not considered holy (Heb 13:4).

Ultimately, this still comes down to "because the Bible says so", but Scripture's reasoning is more than simply an arbitrary command by God.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

It goes against God's order of creation. God created man and women to be together. Men with men is a pervertion of Creation

He's been looking for a church. He's been praying. He knows that it is wrong. He wants to know why? He has always been gay. Everyone in his life knows he's gay. He wants to know why he can't remain gay and serve God, why he can't praise The Lord and be gay? He asked why he can't love a man.

He hasn't disagreed that it's wrong. He wants to know why it's wrong.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

YOu don't need any other reason than the bible says so.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Well, why can't he remain gay and serve God? Why can't he praise the Lord and be gay? Do you mean lifestyle or condition of being? Lifestyle or "why can't he love a man"? Because God says it's not ok. Condition of being? God can change that, but that doesn't mean He will....and I don't believe a person is precluded from serving God just because of a condition of being. If you go to bed at night asking God to take it away...and wake up with nothing changed, you can still praise God because God's worth hasn't decreased because of your present condition. If he can't praise God because he's gay, then no one can praise God and that's not the message in the Bible.

please dismiss yourself. Thanks

Lifestyle, sweetie. He wants to be with a man and be saved.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

To know God is to come to desire what He desires. It's difficult to have a relationship without knowing Him. The more time you spend with Him, the more what you want will line up with His will.

Basically, you can't love God with the totality of everything you are if you're unwilling to surrender even one area of your life to Him and His guidance, direction and parameters. 95%=/=100%. God's love for him won't change, it's not less and will never be more, but he can only serve to the depth that he is willing to surrender.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

He can praise God all he wants. If he does not OBEY God he will be cast into Hellfire.

This is the teaching of the Holy Spirit. He opposes sin. Sin is defined by whatever he says sin is.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Ok..? Show me where I said otherwise.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Why can't we be fornicators and be saved?

Ultimately, we must decide who defines morality: the individual, society or God. If God, then we must accept what and how he has communicated his will to us- the Bible. He does not always provide an answer for "why?", but we can know from the totality of the Bible's message that God is love and his motivation towards us is love.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

BTW, for the record, I don't believe anyone has always been gay. Memory is Tricky.

When I was a child I did not know I was heterosexual. They were just girls to me.

I believe for the most part how we are raised and early life events play a huge role in whether or not we become "gay"

Re: Homosexuality question
 

I've known men that have. I knew one guy that gave up his feelings for God. I don't know that he ever lost the feelings 100%.

Feelings are often just suppressed, not gone

Re: Homosexuality question
 

So anyways...as I said the Reason is that it goes contrary to God's order of Creation for man.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

There you go:highfive

Hits the nail!

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Agreed.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

If you were not implying he could serve God and at the same time be a homosexual I apologize.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Right, feelings are often suppressed and not gone. Or, probably more accurately, I do think even when feelings don't go away a person is transformed in the presence of God. Thoughts, behaviors, even feelings are impacted by spending time in prayer and worship and study even if the underlying feelings are still there. I do know God *can* completely take those feelings away, can completely change a person dramatically, overnight, but I know that those are not the testimonies I hear most often. I've spent a lot of time thinking about why...it's one question I wish I had an answer for because I know the heartache it causes for people. It's why I emphasize that God is worthy of praise whether you wake up and all feelings are gone, or you wake up and they're all still there. He's still God...and He's still amazing...and He's still worthy of all of our praise. And His grace truly is sufficient in all circumstances.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

There is a distinction that has to be made between choosing to act on feelings, and the condition of having feelings.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

the bible is all that matters. What man thinks doesn't matter at all.

PS I have every right to post here.

thank you

Re: Homosexuality question
 

This man probably can't help his attractions and this is sad, but we must realize that each of us may sometimes have ungodly attractions and he should view it this way. Any time you are tempted by a woman other than your wife it is a ungodly attraction. He must realize that just because the attraction is real and he may not be able to help it; he must follow Gods' plan of creation.

I don't think he should refer to himself as gay unless he is practicing. I know of minors who aren't even physically mature who claim they are gay when they aren't old enough to even have a sexual preference. There is really probably little you can say to him, but to pray and continue to seek God. He probably knows everything here we are saying, but is struggling with the inward battle of doing the right thing when your lusts are going in another direction.(In Jesus name touch this person and give him strength over his sinful nature.) I hope he chooses abstinence until he receives his deliverance.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

:thumbsup

Re: Homosexuality question
 

I think I'd probly come at it from the perspective of, choosing to be His disciple is about pleasing Him, the God that created us.

23 And Adam said:
“This is now bone of my bones
And flesh of my flesh;
She shall be called Woman,
Because she was taken out of Man.”
24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh.

Our "intelligent designer" created man for woman and woman for man. The puzzle matches that way :)

In the garden of Eden, he told them not to eat of the forbidden tree . (And other places of instruction-They didn't question why...
Could be a matter of simply achknowledging/trusting His way of doing things is far superior to ours thoughts, feelings , or opinions.
$.01

Re: Homosexuality question
 

So... does he "love" other men more than he loves Jesus Christ? What did those other guys ever do for him? Jesus gave his very LIFE for this man. And continues to bless and provide for him. Keeps him safe... feeds him... protects him... and asks in return his undying loyalty and faithfulness.

Now if the guy wants to "cheat" on the only man he'll ever know who loves him with TRUE UNDYING LOVE... and wants to throw away the best thing to ever come along in his life just for a few moments of satiating lust (along with the feelings of guilt and shame and emptiness sure to follow) then ....

Also, he needs to realize that people aren't "gay" or "straight". They are people who act on lust for various things. The scripture doesn't recognise the modern humanistic lie of "homosexuality". Instead it recognises certain forbidden ACTIONS (including letting your mind wander into entertaining forbidden deeds).

It all comes down to who do you love more - Jesus Christ?

Or yourself.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Yes!:highfive

Seriously? A sinner should love Jesus more than self?

Re: Homosexuality question
 

He may not know Jesus yet, but this is a strong and solid foundation. This, especially: If he has surrendered to Christ, then yes this instruction is important. If he remains unconvinced that God loves him, then save this for later. If he's still hesitating, then address those hesitations first.

Also, the distinctions we make aren't really in the Bible. Focusing on them only serves to drive a wedge even deeper. Focusing on Jesus serves to remove that wedge and bring healing and unity and wholeness.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

When someone is weighing in the balance whether or not to give their heart to Christ they are not where they need to be yet. Before I began to serve God, I wrestled with the does and don'ts of Christian living, but it came to me that none of it mattered at that point in the relationship. If he would just come to God and not try to work out all the details. Without Gods' Spirit in his heart everything probably seems so hard, but when the Holy Ghost comes inside it is fire that burns out the impurities. God's Spirit can change him and he won't even miss that old man.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Five years and I'm still waiting for that...

I think it depends. I needed full disclosure on a lot of things before I was willing to surrender.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

I believe in repentance, but I don't think that it means that we must have every sin in our lives made right. I think it is when we acknowledge our sinful state of being and that we surrender to God and allow his righteousness to work in our lives. Recently during a message I was preaching I felt to raise my hands up and say "hands up don't shoot." Hands raised is a universal sign of surrender and I think that we must do just that with God. I surrender, I give up, I can't live without you. This is my concept of repentance.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Do you mean you miss the way lived without God?

Re: Homosexuality question
 

I was specifically referring to the thing you said about not missing the old man. :) I still have a lot of moments when I really do miss the way things used to be, or the things I used to do. But that's when I make a choice to reaffirm the choice I've already made.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Exactly. Lots of things hold a very strong appeal that doesn't necessarily go away even as patterns of thought and behavior change.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

I understand what you mean, but I view that as temptation and not actually missing the life you had. I could wish to do certain things that I used to do, but it isn't that I would want to go back. As long as we live we are going to have trouble in the flesh. I'm sorry I should be more clear about things because we do sometimes make it sound like our troubles are over when we come to God.

Repentance is also continual. We are going to make mistakes along the way. Gods' grace is sufficient.

Re: Homosexuality question
 

God's grace certainly is sufficient!

Re: Homosexuality question
 

Most won't like this but, I heard a Baptist preacher speaking about homosexuality and he said your Mom taught you a couple things when you were a kid that apply to two men having sex. Those two reasons are pain and odor. A man's body was not made for sex with another man, not to mention disease.