Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Do we REALLY want to be "Apostolic"? We use the book of Acts to prove baptism in Jesus name. We use the book of Acts to prove the Holy Spirit baptism with tongues.

When it comes to this.......the silence of unbelief.

42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. Acts 2:42-45

Who wants an Apostolic book of Acts Church?

32And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. 33And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. 34Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. Acts 4:32-35

I remember in 1982 preaching this over the pupit at the Apostolic Gospel Church in Springfield Ohio. As soon as I finished the message the Pastor came right behind me and said, "and having all things common is done by paying your tithes".

Oh friends the reason we dont have book of Acts power is because we refuse to follow the example of the apostles of Yeshua.

True early on the message of baptism in Jesus name and the Spirit baptism had a great anointing with it. But when YHWH calls his people to full obedience and they refuse it would seem his anointing begins to wane.

Is this not the plight of the modern day Apostolic movement?

Anyone want to see a move among the Churches to have all things common?

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

In the house church movement we generally view this as sharing our entire lives. If my brother or sister has a need, and any of us have the ability to meet that need, we meet the need. My lawn mower is not just mine... it belongs to my brothers and sisters too. We've also taken up offerings to help those struggling under a utility bill or what have you. When we all pool together like a family, amazing things happen.

But I know this isn't about the house church movement. I was just sharing something I've experienced while walking among them.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Now this is what I like! Two of my favorite posters back to back agreeing on something. Great comments! What would it take to get us to that place where we have all things common?

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

What would all things common look like today?

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

All believers everywhere during that time did not have "all things in common" so to teach this was a standard for all & today we need to do likewise is incorrect. It was among those in Jerusalem. This would have ended with the persecution in Jerusalem which scattered the believers.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

I have always understood it this way also. Because of their current system in Jerusalem they were free to flee Jerusalem with no strings attached when it fell. I do agree the church should be more family structured than what we sometimes are. If we see needs in the body we are obligated to one another.

If the church operated more like this it would be good. The problem is there would also be those who come in among us and would take advantage. Paul never expected one man to work so another could live off of his brethren. That is why I think giving should always be freewill. People are always the best judge of whether or not they are being taken advantage of. The church shouldn't get involved in redistributing other people's finances.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Sharing our lives, resources, and belongings in a spirit of brotherly love. That's my opinion.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Really? Perhaps at a certain point baptism in Jesus name ceased? After all we know a great majority never practiced it after a while. Same with baptism in the Spirit with tongues. It gets hard to find historically.

Does that mean its no longer in Gods design, because men dont do it?

I believe it was universally practiced by the early Church.

Here is the example.

13For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 14But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 15As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack. 2 Cor. 8:13-15

Acts 4:32 tells us they said nothing they had was their own. That is how it works.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

And that I believe is what they were doing. Obviously it does not mean to convey that everyone sold their homes and moved into one house. Then how would they be able to meet house to house?

But those who had excess....sold houses and lands. The rich distributing to the poor. Those who had something extra giving to those who had need.

Altho it must be balanced by the Spirits admonition that "if any man will not work neither shall he eat" 2 Thess 3:11.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

MTD, Whatt would it look like today? No vacation? No new cars? No savings? No retirement?

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Perhaps. It would depend on the needs of the assembly. It would certainly look different than what goes on in Churches today.

Look at it this way. If Yeshua looked upon the Churches sharing and having compassion he would pour our grace (favor) on the Assembly!

43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common; 45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need. 46And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, 47Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:43-47

Perhaps fear would come on every soul! Perhaps we would walk in gladness and singleness of heart! Perhaps the Lord would add to the Church daily!

I know in the 70's in the street ministry when the Spirit was flowing in rich ways a vacation was no big deal. I really hated to be away from what the Lord was doing. There was such love and such sensitivity to the Spirit its like we WERE ON VACATION when we would meet for street ministry or just fellowship!

Wouldnt it be a good trade off, our savings for the favor of God? Our retirement for the sense of belonging to a real New Covenant Church? Our vacation for fellowship and labor with the children of light?

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

No. But if a sister's car broke down... the entire body would pull together to help her get it fixed. If a brother was about to get fined for high grass... someone who offer their lawn mower. If a family was struggling on unemployment, the body would periodically buy them groceries.

Essentially the body would operate like... a family. Hence why early Christians called one another "brother" and "sister". The church originally functioned like a family... not an incorporated non-profit organization determined to increase revenue for unending building programs.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

We have to become a family first before we can act like one.

2 Corinth 1:10

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

all you guys make good points.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Yes, really. We are not speaking of other issues, just what you brought up. Please don't divert the subject.

There is no directive that this was some rule given to them. They were free to do what they wanted as is seen in the case with Ananias & Saphira (sp?). Just as people were free to give or not give to the needy in Jerusalem who lived elsewhere.

Jesus never told them to do this and the apostles never told believers to do it. If people wish to do it, and some do, that is totally up to them.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Do we use the book of Acts as a guideline? Yea I agree it was voluntary. It was done from love. Paul said their helping the poor saints proved the sincerity of their love. Nonetheless they were doing it.

Any comment on Pauls statement to the Corinthians?

13For I mean not that other men be eased, and ye burdened: 14But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality: 15As it is written, He that had gathered much had nothing over; and he that had gathered little had no lack. 2 Cor. 8:13-15

Todays giving centers much around a Pastors salary. The offering Paul was taking was for the poor saints.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Also just PERHAPS they knew what Jesus said about the day of judgment and they saw in this obedience to his word.

Matt 25:34-48

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: 35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: 36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. 37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? 38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? 39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? 40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: 42For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: 43I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. 44Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? 45Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. 46And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

So were the Apostles doing this "all things common" ministry of their selves? Or were they led by the Spirit?

Acts 6:1-7


1And in those days, when the number of the disciples was multiplied, there arose a murmuring of the Grecians against the Hebrews, because their widows were neglected in the daily ministration. 2Then the twelve called the multitude of the disciples unto them, and said, It is not reason that we should leave the word of God, and serve tables. 3Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business. 4But we will give ourselves continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word. 5And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: 6Whom they set before the apostles: and when they had prayed, they laid their hands on them.
7And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

God was certainly blessing this arrangment was he not?

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

That is what I was trying to show, as well as the fact that all believers everywhere did not hold everything in common.

I would prefer to give to individual people as compared to giving most/all to a pastor.

He was explaining he was not attempting to take from them so that they would be poorer and the others richer, but rather that their giving would create an equality between them and those in Jerusalem. He never demanded any offering, nor that believers everywhere were to have all things common. When we consider a subject such as this, why not bring in all passages about giving? Paul also taught to give from your heart and not under compulsion. The Bible speaks of when we have the opportunity to do good to others. James spoke of seeing someone in need and telling them to be warmed and fed and yet do nothing about it.

It appeared at first you might be attempting to use the one situation in Jerusalem as a mandate for all believers everywhere throughout all time. If anyone makes an incident such as this into some type of mandate or rule we are all to follow, I believe it to be wrong and misguided. On the other hand, if you wish to speak of how believers should reach out and help others (both believers and non-believers), that is a different situation in my mind.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

If you are saying the church grew because they held all things common, I would disagree. No matter how Christians act, God will always draw people to himself.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

And saints bringing their excess and laying it at the apostles feet seemed to be their way of doing something about it.

Having all things common was their way of saying that no one said anything that had was their own. It was then a matter of how much they were willing to distribute.

Anannias gave some of what he gained of his profits. There was nothing wrong with that. His sin was in saying he gave it all.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

I wouldn't trust many pastors to do this. As it stands, even with the tithes they demand, they do little to nothing to help out their own church members who are hurting.

Saying it was all so he could appear to have done like others did, too. I am in agreement with you on this.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

I see all things common in the early chapters of Acts, but not much after that. There does not seem to be anything to indicate this was an Apostolic command but maybe more of a necessity in some regions.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Does it not read as if there "all things common" was a manifestation of the Spirit they all had? Of thr "fervent love of the brethren" they had?

Why do we seek to find reasons not to help our brethren? The church in Acts wasn't communist. People owned property. They just made all they had available to those who had need so that NONE SUFFERED LACK.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Don't recall seeing anyone doing such in this discussion.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

We have friends that tried to do exactly what the book of Acts did. They were a part of the Jesus movement, full of the Spirit, and eager to live as closely as possible to the experience of book of Acts church. So, about 30 years ago, sometime in the 70s, they sold all they had, and moved their entire family to a community where all things were held in common. It turned out to be the biggest mess they could have ever put their family through. I can't even begin to describe the things they went through, trying to follow the Lord, and have all things common with fellow believers. It failed, miserably. They lost everything, and all of their kids have strayed far from the Lord, because of the things they suffered while part of this commune. It wasn't quite as bad as the Jim Jones scenario, but lots of sexual abuse, misconduct, gross misuse of $$ and more.

So, the problem I have with trying to "mimic" the early church and their having all things in common would be that it may work for a while, but because we are human, and flesh, things degenerate, and people will get disillusioned, and while it may work for a season, it is not the answer for a lifetime.

Rather, I like what Esiasis said:
I believe that the SPIRIT of having all things in common is closer to what the church in the book of Acts had (and what we should seek after), than the actual physical efforts of trying to live in a "commune" and physically having all things in common.

I do believe that the spirit of being willing to give to others and make up their lack is closer to the attitude and heart of the true NT churches, than an actual physical communing, and having all things common.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

:thumbsup

"But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him? My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth". (1 John 3:17-18)

"Blessed is he that considereth the poor: the Lord will deliver him in time of trouble." (Ps 41:1)

"He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the Lord; and that which he hath given will he pay him again." (Prov 19:17)

"Whoso stoppeth his ears at the cry of the poor, he also shall cry himself, but shall not be heard." (Prov 21:13)

"He that hath a bountiful eye shall be blessed; for he giveth of his bread to the poor." (Prov 22:9)

"He that giveth unto the poor shall not lack: but he that hideth his eyes shall have many a curse." (Prov 28:27)

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Perhaps it comes down to church folk needing a positive example of this to see. Who here will be the first to be that example?

:icecream

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

I never said they all lived in a commune. They evidently had homes or they would not have met house to house.

But they did have all things common. It was something important enough the Holy Spirit inspired it to but put in the sacred scriptures. It was not just a failed experiment as some here seem to suggest.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Past the Ananias and Saphira incident, there is no more record of the church "having all things in common". I don't believe it is mentioned again anywhere in the NT, which leads some to believe that perhaps the early zeal, fire, and excitement that brought thousands of people together perhaps changed into more of a spiritual thing, rather than so much physically living, eating, and working together. In the chapter about Steven, we see the seven men chosen to wait on the saints, so we know that they were sharing meals, and perhaps lodging together.

We know that they gathered together in houses to eat, and share the Lord's Supper as witnessed by 1 Cor. 11, yet Paul said that they had their own houses to eat and drink in first, so they wouldn't be gluttonous when coming together for the Lord's supper.

So, we know that by this remark by Paul that they weren't all living together, and having ALL things in common, even as it seemed perhaps they were doing in the early days of the church.

Which brings us to the fact that it is not so much a "physical" thing in having all things in common, but a spiritual love and care for the brothers and sisters in your fellowship to care, love and look out for each other, even as you would for your own self.

With that mindset, I agree with Aquila, who has experienced house church, as have we, and that is certainly the mindset that a house church generally builds upon - a close communion, love, and companionship among the people to help each other whether financially, physically, spiritually, or in any other way.

I do believe that spiritual fellowship within the body of Christ is not complete unless there is a willingness to give and help your brother or sister in their time of need.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

:thumbsup

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

I do believe house churches, or even cell group fellowships (which I know is fairly common in the UPC) are more closely associated with the NT church than just about any other kind of church there is. Simply because in home fellowship, there is a kindred spirit like a family bond that knits the group together in love. There is more open communication, ability to express one's self, and also the opportunity to reach out to to your brother or sister who has a need.

If you go to a big church, you may not have a clue that the person sitting next to you has a loved one facing cancer, or a car that is on its last leg, or a desperate need of any kind, because there is generally not a place to express those kinds of needs in a huge building with hundreds or even thousands of people.

Yet, when people meet together in homes, or small buildings, there is an element of fellowship, and communion where needs can be shared and expressed, and then believers can help one another out as needs are made known.

I think this is what Bro. MTD is trying to express - a desire for the body of Christ to truly respond to each other in love, mercy, kindness, and a willingness to help where there is a need.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Sure. I think what you are describing is what they called "having all things common". No one among them any longer claimed EXCLUSIVE rights to what they owned. They were taking their excess and laying it at the feet of the Apostles where it was distributed to everyone according to their need.

Later this was taking so much time from the Apostles ministry they chose 7 men for the job. No doubt it was on a voluntary basis. People were giving as they were moved to do so.

This does not seem to relate to the tithing system of men today. They think you give in order to support a Pastor and pay his staff along with keeping up payments on the building and utilities.

And yes this is much easier to do in context of real New Testament fellowship which occurred basically in homes of the people. I started out in home fellowship early on in 1975. After knowing that kind of fellowship its been hard to relate to these building Churches.

I have basically been out of that system since I left the "Apostolic" Church in 1983. Its been practically all "home church" since then.

While I don't at all think that's the complete answer to the woes of modern Churches its part of it.

Re: Apostolic Christians Had All Things Common
 

Right. The emphasis was on the fellowship, and care for one another, and not for the building, or organization.

We left the "church system" several years ago ourselves, and while at times it is a lonely journey, because the majority of people from all denominations think you are kind of crazy if you don't attend a church building, for the most part, this has been a wonderful experience for us.

No, most certainly it's not, but it would be a start.