Im almost out of time
 

I have 8 days left to send in my dues to the Vatican in Hazlewood, Mo. or I lose my credentials.

To pay or not to pay. That is the question.

Being totally honest with myself, I do not see how having them has helped me or enhanced my ministry in the slightest. I can live without a free minister's meal after nightly camp meeting services. In fact I can live without camp meeting all together. Nothing will change in my life by giving them up except I'll have 50 dollars more a month to put in my gas tank instead of having to borrow from family members while seeking gainful employment. Since most churches are family owned businesses I'm not going to be referred to a church as pastor. I'll have to start my own church if I want to pastor. The only country that I felt any leading to go to as a missionary has been abandoned by the organization.

If I sell my property and move to a different State, the last thing I'm going to do is seek out a pastor to chain myself to and surrender all of my individuality and decision making to.

T-minus eight days and counting.

Tick tock tick tock

Re: Im almost out of time
 

The ALJC is a whole lot cheaper I heard.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

I honestly did not know you were licensed with the UPCI. Have you paid your district dues? What district are you in if you don't mind my asking?

Re: Im almost out of time
 

My step-father is ALJC.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

It seems you know the answer. The UPC is not the same as The New Testament Church. You are Oneness and post trib. Move to Somerset Ky start a Church and I will come.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Has anyone else gotten the sense that allot of these pastors actually try to stifle and stunt the growth of the ministers in their churches who serve underneath them, like clipping their wings?

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Actually, I do as well.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

You would make a good pastor, why don't you start a church?

Re: Im almost out of time
 

It happens all the time all over the place.

New Jerusalem stones her prophets and kills the ones sent to her, too.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

I had been a Pastor/Elder for about 13 years in my life. I dont think I did a very good job of it. If the Lord brought it around again I would give it another try.

In the meantime lets get Originalist up here to Ky. Then instead of moving to Alaska you can move here and we we all be happy:highfive

Re: Im almost out of time
 

I've seen this in both the UPC and independent churches.

IMO, a Pastor should not preach more than a certain number of weeks a year; he should set aside services not only for evangelists or missionaries, but also a good number of weeks out of the year for ministers within the church to preach and grow in the ministry.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

I would love to get Votivesoul down here with us but he seems to be at the center of a rising New Testament Church where he is.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Whatever happened to the restoration of a minister?

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Looks like you answered the question already. :)

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Its real for sure. God does restore and use the broken. We dont want to lose sight of that.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

If you guys have bluegrass music in your churches, Im on my way!

Re: Im almost out of time
 

You got it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98jN...FvRIQw5kJS6d13

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Guess we should check with Originalist about the music.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

I love Bluegrass and is naturally part of Kentucky's culture.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Thats awesome stuff, the music of heaven...yehaaaa

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Will pray that the Lord will give you peace to make this decision.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

The only real point in being licensed is to vote, Pastor a church or be an evangelist

Local preachers don't need one

T-minus 7 days...

http://youtu.be/5JSCbEKsguQ

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Thanks, Brother Mike.

You know, the thought has hit me a lot that I wish you could come here to WI. Maybe one day the Lord will bring us all together before He comes???

But in the meantime, yes, God is stirring and changing things. The pace is quickening. There is still one major hurdle I see that will either make or break what God is doing, but I am praying and trusting in the Lord.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Sorry to hear that. But, well, we all gotta go some time. (Or should I read further? :heeheehee)

Re: Im almost out of time
 

So sorry things are the way they are. I don't know why the church situation is not working for many. Money and politics maybe? I'm hopeful that a place still exist where one can worship with like minded brethren.

Looking for a move myself..

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Somerset looks very appealing.. I use to live in Lexington.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

We could examine their statistics. "4,459 churches (including daughter works and preaching points) and 9,413 ministers in 2013" comes directly from the UPCI official website. For years there have been many more licensed ministers than number of churches in the USA & Canada, even though there is always a push for establishing more churches.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Forgive me if this comes across as bashing the UPC, I don't mean to. I've been in two districts where there were enough politics going on to make an episode of House of Cards.

According to the above statistic, there are 9,413 ministers in 4,459 churches. Could it be the reason more Pastors don't help other ministers under them to grow and succeed enough to branch out and start their own work is due to Pastors wanting to retain votes for district positions? I personally know a minister from another district who pushed to have young men in his church licensed so they could vote for him as a district superintendent. It worked, he's been elected and re-elected a few times now.

To me, that's a sad statistic. I know there are a few hundred nomad Evangelists in that number; however, it also means instead of Pastors sending out ministers to start other churches, they're holding onto them.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Actually that is a good ratio
for you have the pastor and the assistant pastor just like in the New Testament was
Paul and Barnabas
Paul and Silas

That give us 2 ministers working together and a few extra to establish new works.

It is good to have a pastor and an assistant Pastor in a church because if one dies or leaves the ministry because of whatever reason the other can take quickly over.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Or his backslid son can "pray through" and take over the family business while those faithful ministers who never backslid are left hanging.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Flaming, I disagree with the pastor comparison to Paul, Silas and Barnabas. They never stayed at one church and claimed to be pastor & assistant pastor. I would also disagree that many of those "extra" ministers are acting as assistant pastors. That certainly was not the case where I attended and at one point there were at least three ministers attending.

The ratio is even greater than what it first appears as they started counting preaching points (makes their numbers look better). A church I was in had a preaching point and more than 90% of the time, it was only a few members of our church attending.

In an organization that has been consistently pushing for new churches to be established, that is a poor ratio.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

It depends on the pastor.
Few pastors know how to develop future leaders.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

As if the New Covenant teachings of Yeshua and His Apostles actually make a distinction between ministers and constituents...

- ALL are lively stones
- ALL are priests unto God the Father
- ALL are servants of the Lord
- ALL are members of the same Body
- ALL are ministers with a calling

The day the church realizes that 100% participation by 100% of the Body 100% of the time is the only way to function, will be the day the world finds itself once again turned upside down.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

God is a God of order.
While we are all the things you have described, there God has ordained the use of offices and even servant positions that delineate the roles of some people versus the roles of others within the Body of Christ.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Nepotism is wrong, that is the reason I left one church.

There were more capable men in the church, but the son of the minister inherited the pulpit. when that happened I quit that church, I was not going to be a part of such shenanigans.

We do not have the Aaronic priesthood, the ministry is not hereditary.

If there is one thing (only one thing) I admire about the Catholic church is that since the priest are not allowed to marry, there is no nepotism in the Catholic church. (none of this; son inhering the ministry, or the wife being the treasurer of the church)

Re: Im almost out of time
 

The pattern was set in the ministry of Moses who chose Joshua as his successor and then we have Elijah, who chose Elisha as his successor and the sad story of Gehazi who was to be the successor to Elisha but blew it.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

I left a church where the dad was the Sr Pastor and he and his wife were over the married couples group, their son in law was the Pastor and youth Pastor, the dad's sister in law was the treasurer and their daughter (Pastor/youth Pastor's wife) was a secretary

Re: Im almost out of time
 

God does order things well:

Headship

1.) God
2.) Christ
3.) Every man
4.) Woman

(1 Corinthians 11:1-3)

Giftings

1.) Apostles
2.) Prophets
3.) Teachers
4.) Miracles
5.) Gifts of Healings
6.) Helps
7.) Governments
8.) Diversity of Tongues

(1 Corinthians 12:28)

Local Leadership

1.) Bishops
2.) Deacons
3.) Elders

(1 Timothy 3)

Now, just because there are clear delineations of all the above roles, it doesn't mean that there is a line demarcating clergy from laity, or any such thing.

All members of the Body of Christ worldwide should fit into the ministry according to their calling, election, and gifting.

Roles and ministries not in the Scripture

1.) Pew-warmer
2.) Passive observer
3.) Leech

If in any local assembly, there is a saint not doing anything to serve in the Kingdom of God and in the Body of Christ, then they are failing their calling and election.

And if in any local assembly, there are "ministers" who keep the Body from functioning properly by stymieing the growth and maturity of the saints by not letting them serve and develop their ministry because they want to maintain a clergy to laity distinction, then they are failing their calling and election, as well.

As for the original poster, Originalist:

You just keep on serving the Lord and following His voice as a faithful sheep. Anyone that get in the way of Christ's Sovereign Headship in your life needs to pray through and fear God again (or risk being considered a usurper of the Son of God [your head] by I AM Himself).

You just go right ahead and grow past all the petty nonsense. Leave the kindergartners to their immaturity.

Re: Im almost out of time
 

Does anyone know of a single church in oneness circles that has deacons and elders that operate as they were intended?