Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Father?
 

Remind me, please.

How does Oneness Theology work for those who really are Oneness but really don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Father (as in God the Father).

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Categories of belief have to have meaning, or else they cease to be categories.

I would say that if a person claims to be Oneness, but doesn't believe that Jesus is the Father, then they cannot be classified as "Oneness".

We shouldn't go around co-opting terms to suit ourselves when the terms have an already well established meaning.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Exactly. No one is in "Apostolic Oneness" who rejects that Christ is both the Father and the Son.

This is a unique faith in the world and as to this particular truth the more Biblical.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

If you dont figure out the Godhead, it can affect your faith inadvertently. You might want to read the download of David Bernard on "The Oneness of God".....https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...77880786,d.cWc

I started in the foundation of his type of oneness teaching and vary just slightly in a couple of areas. But Bernards stuff will help you understand and be at peace with the subject.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

There are groups that believe in only one God besides Oneness Pentecostals. However they also reject the fact that Christ is God...not just the Father period.

Jehovah Witnesses a prime example.

If Jesus is not the Father he is not the Christ. The Christ must be both according to Isaiahs Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 9:6.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

I'm just wondering, from this perspective does any real distinction exist between the Father & the Son? Furthermore, if Jesus Christ is both Father & Son then does a Father and a Son really exist?

Would you be able to affirm that both the Father and the Son are of One divine essence?

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Scripture does not say one divine essence. It does say this concerning the Messiah:

Isaiah 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of peace.

I affirm the Messiah (YESHUA) is the begotten son and the Eternal Father? Do you?

The distiction is that the son was born of a woman. Therefore a human being. The Father is the Mighty God of Heaven.

Yeshua is both simultaneously. He is God and man at the same time.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

My understanding might be close to what you're talking about. I had explained my understanding in a previous post which I will share here. Please let me know if this helps. God bless you and yours.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

The way Jesus and the Father are one is because Jesus had the Holy Ghost(Spirit of the Father) inside him.

The way we are one with Jesus, other than baptism, is when we have the Holy Ghost in us(Spirit of Christ).

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

THIS

IS DIFFERENT FROM THIS.


Care to explain?

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus is the Father.
Jesus is the Son.
Jesus is the Holy Ghost.
All Three are One.

Classical Oneness point of view, right?

But aren't there Oneness Pentecostals who don't believe like this?

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus had the Holy Ghost...Luke 4:1

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

God was in Christ...2 Cor. 5:19

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Think hard folks

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Just a hint guys....Col.2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

The revealings(manifestations) of God to mankind were bottled up in the MAN, Christ Jesus.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


The Holy Ghost(Spirit of the Father) raised Jesus from the dead. It will also raise us from the dead.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

The only way we can say that Jesus is the Father, is because the Spirit of the Father was dwelling in him and speaking through him. That is biblical oneness.


6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus HAD the Holy Ghost is different from Jesus IS the Holy Ghost.


Which one is it?

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus(the human son), had the Holy Ghost(Spirit of his Father)

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus was not a God/man or a man/God.

Jesus was a human man.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus died.....his human spirit, like we have, went back to his creator upon death.....

"And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus was ALL God and ALL man. Only the Father is GOD so if He was Divine He had to be God the Father.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

This is when the Holy Ghost likely left him....

Psalm 22
22 My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?

Matt 27:46
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?



He was still alive during this, and gave up his human spirit much later.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus was a human being with DIVINITY(his Father, AKA Holy Ghost) inside him.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus, the Son of God, isn't the Father. Jesus, the Son of God, is also the Father. How? Because the Father dwells within Him. Meaning, within Christ's very being and person, permeating all that He is. The human essence of Christ and the divine essence of the Father uniquely blended in an inseparable union. The reality of this oneness is one wherein we can say that in the Son, God became a man. And that the Son was a man who was also God.

The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father.

Let's review how Jesus Himself describes His Oneness with the Father...

John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)

If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray and speak of His Heavenly Father. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from deep within Him. Something emanating from the very core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation. Something that speaks to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something that raises the dead and heals all manner of sickness. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

However, keep in mind...God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that this very same man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one

2 Corinthians 5:19 (KJV)
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

I've attached an image to help explain.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jermyn is asking for a detailed description folks

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Let us use scriptures to paint our picture to Jermyn

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

If I poured a half glass of wine into a half glass of water... are the contents of the second glass, wine or water???

If Almighty God pours Himself into the very being of His human Son... is His Son now man or God???

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Awesome

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Col 2:9

For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Mark 10:18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

Luke 18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus, because he was a real man, did not claim to be good, he said that there is NONE good, but God

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

How did the Apostles view Jesus when they heard him say this?

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

A side note, the next time somebody calls you good, say what Jesus said...lOL

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Well, I believe in ONENESS per se... but there are some things that aren't completely clear to me.

For example.... how do you explain this verse? (there obviously is shown to be a difference between God, and Jesus).

Romans 8:17 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may also be glorified together."

So, how is it that we are heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Jesus? This would suggest a distinct difference between God and Jesus.

We must be very careful when we depict the humanity of Jesus, because many people take this to mean that we are co-equal with Jesus, and I think this is where the Mormons took their spin-off. They believe they can become equals with Jesus, and can become like him, like gods themselves.

Just one of the questions about the "oneness" that I've not understood, although I do believe that there is only one God and that in Jesus was manifested the spirit of the Father. It is just that sometimes the descriptions written by Paul about the godhead conjure up other things.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Sean please tell us in what way Jesus was not good?

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Although the man, Jesus Christ (the Son of God), distinct from the Father... He is not separate from the Father. They are one.

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus is stating that, if He is good, as the one speaking to Him attested that He was, He must be understood to be God. It's like if the man said, "Divine teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?", and Jesus said, "Why do you call me divine? There is none divine but one, that is, God." In other words, Jesus is saying, "If I'm what you're saying I am, you must know who I am."

Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe
 

Jesus said it himself, please tell me how I did not read the 2 passages properly. I am sincere here.