Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Do you REALLY believe we didn't understand our own Constitution for almost 200 years until a 1962 Supreme Court told us what it REALLY meant and declared prayer in public schools to be illegal? Do you??

Even if you see no value in prayer in public schools you should still be outraged that 9 judges stole a right from the sovereign States.

But you just sit there and take it!! You think you have no recourse. Do you really believe that these 9 judges know better how to interpret the Constitution than those who actually wrote it?? Or have you believed the lie that the Constitution is a "living breathing document" that can be interpreted to fit changing times?

Do you really believe that gays have a right to marry under the 14th Amendment? Why did it take us 160 years to figure that out?

Do you really believe that States requiring photo ID's to vote is unconstitutional?

Do you really believe that States denying welfare to illegal aliens is unconstitutional?

Right now the City of San Francisco allows public nudity. Groups are suing right now to allow this right nation wide under the 14th amendment. Do you really believe that the 14th Amendment protects such a thing?

We sit by year after year and take this garbage from liberal courts and WHY? Where are the governors who will simply ignore these rulings and dare the Federal Government to do anything about it? If just ONE brave governor would take a stand you would see literally tens of thousands of patriots flocking to his side preventing Federal marshals from intervening or arresting such a governor.

These judges are no longer interpreting the Constitution. Rather they are legislating from the bench and using their positions to actually undermine the Constitution. We DO NOT have to take this!!

We do not have to bow to a lawless President and we do not have to obey lawless judges. But if you think any of this can be resolved without civil disobedience you are dreaming. These judges are going to have to be scared off the bench. They are going to have to see angry mobs surrounding their offices and homes. They are going to have to see the fury of the American people starring them right in the eye. NO I am NOT even remotely hinting and doing what Timothy McVeigh did. I'm talking about doing what our colonial ancestors did.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Preach it!

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

No argument from me at all on this. There is even precedent for such actions. Did not Andrew Jackson ignore the dictate of Chief Justice Marshall in the matter of removing the Five Civilized Tribes over the Mississippi River? I am certain that there are other instances, but this is the one I am best aquainted with.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Amen. If we do not start disobeying, there will be no end to what they will impose upon the States by misuse of the 14th Amendment.

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Ok what bugs me about the tone here is it suggests an MO that draws a believer into "the world."

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Why would you legislate morality to sinners? Will it change their hearts? Are we to be a light to the world, or make the world a light?

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Isn't Our Lord over human government? He sets kings up and sets them down. He rules in the kingdom of men.

Doesn't God appoint secular rulers?

Dan 2:21. And he changeth the times and the seasons: he removeth kings, and setteth up kings: he giveth wisdom unto the wise, and knowledge to them that know understanding:


Romans 13
Submit to Government
Obey Authorities; Love Your Neighbor; Put on Christ
1.Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2. Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves.

1 Peter 3:22 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
22Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him.

For me as long as government doesn't make us go against Our Lord's will we are only instructed to pray for them.

There is spiritual abuse and murder in the church. May we clean our own house.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Actually, who else are you going to be legislating morality for? Is not the law for those who are lawless? If we were a nation of Christians, there would not need to be so many laws governing our behaviors as we would all be obedient to Christ, and thus not needing the constraint of the legal system.

But the law is for those who will not restrain themselves or their sundry passions and desires. It is for the sinner, who does wickedly before the Lord, that they may have a recompense, and that they may fear, if not the wrath of God then the penalty that will be exacted by men.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Christianity was rocking along great until they gained influence and control in/over the government (Constantine). Then they became the same or worse as what was before. Let Caesar handle Caesar and let us Christians handle the matters of the heart to those to choose to be a part of us as we shine our light.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Ah--now perhaps we might be able to begin a discussion on how we got the doctrine of Original Sin, from the era of Constantine.

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We're not talking about "legislating morality". We are talking about correct Constitutional interpretation.

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Typical response from Christians who realize the price that will have to be paid and the radical stand that will have to be taken to preserve our republic. They start sounding like Jehovah's Witnesses.

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Yes and the government he set up over this land is the Constitution. Certain evil men are in defiance of the government God set up for the USA and they must be smacked down.

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Since we are not trying to make Christianity the state religion, your analogy really does not make sense here. Do you vote? If so, why?

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Amen Jay.
Yes why have laws at all? Why restrain the government with the chains of the Constitution, right? That would be "legislating morality". Open the prisons while we are at it and let all the law breakers go.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Well, as long as God does the smacking.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Ah--well, I am a royal member of a kingdom, and cannot pledge allegiance to your flag, so some momentary confusion might be unavoidable there... :D

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

So we are to sit by and do nothing and just hope God decides to smack, or do we use the authority God has given the TRUE government of the USA and be the instruments of his smacking? Who did the smacking in 1776?

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Then this topic is not for you.

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:lol not true. I am merely compelled to advocate for a believer's actual allegiance, no matter how unpopular that is.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

You really think this? Look at all the rules the Israelites had and how so many of them continued to be broken.

Some Christians in an individual church cannot even get along with each other - then churches within a same group can go against each other - and you believe we wouldn't need laws because we'd all be obedient to Christ? Even church groups have "laws" as well as individual churches.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

And yet we are freed from the Law-if you leave the world.

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Great. We know where you stand. Next.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

No, I don't.

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And ultimately, if you're trying to pass laws to make people act "right", you are setting up Christianity as the state religion. The constitution is not our religion - let those that worship it defend it, and let's stick to being a light to the world.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Great. Let's abolish all laws then and see how that works for you.

Again, we are discussing the correct Constitutional interpretation. Do the Federal Courts have the Constitutional authority to even rule in cases such as gay marriage? If they don't and make these rulings anyway, then it is they who are legislating morality. A State defining marriage as between a man and a woman is not legislating morality.

I believe the USA is worth preserving. Doing so does not constitute "Constitution worship".

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

duplicate post

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

:lol telling. Alrighty then, you have a nice ride.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Frankly, I find that defending the Constitution takes time away from the religious liberties that I enjoy because of it. So I let the ones who do basically worship it, and those that don't, but are inclined to get involved, fight those battles. I do believe that it's the best thing going, and I appreciate it, but we all have to choose where we spend our energy. I do feel that Christians are best served by staying out of these matters for the most part, at least at the forefront of them, but everyone has to make that decision for himself, and I don't condemn those who disagree.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

I can understand your cautiousness about this. We do have to choose our battles carefully, especially since bringing about real change in America will require what I described in my original post, civil disobedience. One must count the cost and search his own soul. Sadly, it might all be in vain. Believe me, I understand where you are coming from.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Let believers sit and do nothing, then hear them cry when persecution comes.

There's no excuse for lack of informative involvement in politics or civil discourse.

The Apostle Paul was very knowledgeable of politics, and used that knowledge to his advantage.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

He used it to benefit the kingdom of God, not to make changes in the civil government, other than witness to those in power that he came in contact with.

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What do you suggest we do?

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Doesn't take away from the fact that he was informed and used his political knowledge for both his personal benefit (to save his life) and as you state, to benefit the kingdom of God.

Paul's ministry was to build the early church. That was his role. We all have various roles, which include being active in civil government. How else can there be good rulers as apposed to the evil rulers, if Christians were not to be involved in civil government.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

John 19:9-11 (New King James Version
9 and went again into the Praetorium, and said to Jesus, “Where are You from?” But Jesus gave him no answer. 10 Then Pilate said to Him, “Are You not speaking to me? Do You not know that I have power to crucify You, and power to release You?” 11 Jesus answered, “You could have no power at all against Me unless it had been given you from above

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

I understand the point but how do we determine the context? If our country is being invaded is that in God's plan and we must not resist?

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

1. Did our Lord resist?

2. We are of a spiritual kingdom?

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Pretty succinct, Rudy--amen.

Countries come and go; nations remain. How can "not (involved) in the world" and "active in politics" (ps--or "religion," for that matter) coexist? Many, many people who consider themselves believers will be led astray here. Don't fool yourself.

Re: Oh WAKE UP people!!
 

Not sure what this has to do with anything. No one argues what this scripture is saying. Obviously the Lord rules over all.