4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Why do you agree or disagree? http://bit.ly/1wAoF13

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

I don't like blogs. So ....

lol

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

I agree. You shouldn't vote, either. :lol

Disagree.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Weak. All points weak. Peaceful protesting is my GOD given right. I guess we are cherry picking the constitution like we are bible verses.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

I guess you have Bible for that?

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I believe in the separation of church and state.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

That is taught in many apostolic churches. I disagree with it for the record.

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You could argue that when Jesus flipped over the tables (Matt 21:12) that was protesting. :heeheehee

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

If Christians are never to protest or peacefully resist authority... why have untold millions of Christians been executed throughout history? Every refusal to bow before man or idol was a protest. Every refusal to kill for the empire, burn incense, or refusal to cease meeting was a peaceful protest against authority. Every sermon and anointed proclamation against injustice, sin, exploitation, abuse, and abomination is a protest.

Frankly, it can be said that in a lot of ways... being a Christian requires protest in one form or another. Some Christians resisted the institutional injustices of their day so heavily that they became historically known as... PROTESTants.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Is it your God given right or is it your constitutional right? lol

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Did God give us that right inherently in creating us?

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Maybe...perhaps? However, if it involves violence I would doubt it. What do you think?

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Except when God orders it, you mean? :heeheehee

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Wrong.

1. You misquote scripture by ellipsis leading the unlearned to think that without peace no man shall see the Lord.

2. Just because rabble rousers make riot doesn't mean I or others cannot protest peacefully. One of the largest protest rallies ever was the Tea Party march on DC. No violence or tumult whatsoever.

3. You have presented error in regards to submission to authority. By your standard Christians would be required by God to submit to nazism, communism, sharia, or any other tyranny imposed by a wicked "government". Further, the supreme authority in these united States is "We the People". That fact has been affirmed by the Founding Fathers, the courts, the state constitutions, and other sources too numerous to mention. When the citizens "protest" it is an act of the highest governing body, the body politic. Therefore, to protest against the act of protesting is to protest the sovereignty of the highest lawful body in the nation. In addition, the law of the land enshrines the right of peaceful assembly by the people. To oppose that right or the exercise of that right is to be in opposition to the law of the land and thus the system of government established BY GOD for our governance. Which would be an act of rebellion against the principles of Romans 13.

4. Your argument in section 3 of your essay is in essence that Christians should pray and do nothing else lest they be accused of meddling in God's business. Thankfully nobody with any sense believes that for if they did no farmer would tend his crops, nobody would have helped anyone escape communism or nazism, and Moses would have been killed in infancy. Not to mention Noah would not have built an ark.

5. As for protesting not being part of the armor of God, neither is voting, driving a car, planting crops, working at your job, paying the bills, or dying a martyr's death, yet none of those things are wrong nor are they forbidden to God's people.

In summary, I suggest you learn first the Bible doctrine concerning the role, purpose, and scope of human government as well as the foundation of the American system of jurisprudence and politics. Then you will be more able to speak on the subject.

Having said that, I do think protesting is a waste of time because it implies the powers that be currently in charge actually care what the populace thinks. Which I do not see any evidence of whatsoever.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Timmy actually went there. :heeheehee

There was a bunch of violent "protesting" that happened in the OT. that God ordered.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Excellent points.

Just to add to point #4

Like someone once said "You can pray until you faint... but if you don't get up and try to do something about it, God is not going to put it in your lap."

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Do you agree with President Obama? He used that same reasoning to disparage Christian beliefs and values.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

There is a time and a place for everything. I believe we must be led of the spirit in all that we do. Jesus turned the tables upside down in the temple, and went on a rampage against what was happening in the temple. Yet, when it was time for his death, when Peter cut the ear off one of the soldiers, Jesus put it back on. There is a time and a place for anger (be angry and sin not), and a time and a place to stand for what you believe.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

This tells us that the apostles had weapons handy.
Two swords at least.
It would be like some Christian group today having 2 guns for protection.

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Well put (as usual) KBTW. I would like to offer the observation that if you consider yourself one of "we, the people," you have slipped back into the water that you were baptized from. Or, more likely, never really rose out of. "You cannot serve two masters" was written for "we, the people."

Why, I will ask, would you want to protest? Even peacefully? Is it not because the world is doing something you do not agree with? "Beautiful are the feet."

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Um, Christians invented Naziism.
Sharia is not imposed upon anyone. It is voluntary. Anywhere there is Sharia, there are also civil courts. Not saying that there are not some inbred little Sharia bergs, since surely there are.
established by God? Hmm, under duress, perhaps--to teach us a lesson. The body politic can get behind me, imo.
hmm, seems to me that in making this comparison you may have jumped from "the world" (protesting, "we the people," et al) to "the earth" (farming). And i'm of the distinct impression that Noah and Moses went specifically against the grain that you have them going for.
how do you know? I only find that planting crops and dying a martyr's death are acceptable, at least for me; and, I can Scripturally argue that the rest may at least possibly be sins, and some of them surely heinous ones. I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if you are voting in national elections, you may as well be reading Crowley.
by all means, and please start with 1Sam8
we get exactly what we deserve; and sadly, i don't mean the populace (or "sea"), which do not figure into the equation at all (strangely) but "those who are called by His Name."

just lobbin grenades here, buddy :D

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

No. I was just making fun of what Timmy said. :heeheehee

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

I didn't bother reading anything past this opening statement of yours, Shaz. Why? Because it proves to me you haven't got a clue what you are talking about. It's like debating philosophy with a public school educated teenager. Such a child has NO CLUE about the origin or tenets of say Utilitarianism or Hegelian dialectics or classical Sophism or Stoicism, yet would certainly have enough ignorance to blurt out "Nuh UH! Aurelius was a dweeb!"

It seems to me you'll say anything, and take ANY position, as long as it 1) defends Islam and 2) denigrates Christianity. Perhaps your heart belongs to Mecca, rather than New Jerusalem. I seriously think you will one day find yourself submitting to Allah's "prophet" and testifying how you used to think you were a Christian. You might as well go ahead and come out. You'll feel better about yourself, at least.

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LOL, if I didn't know better, I would've thought the same thing about shazeep. Doesn't matter though, I finally realized this truth of yours and put him on ignore since his posts are idiotic.

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:lol there you go, Esaias; Mr Eastman--who has me on "ignore" :lol --is agreeing with you, and calling me names again. Hey, at least the names have deflected to my posts, to be connected to me by association.

Religion is not pretty, Esaias; i merely made a statement of fact. I find Naziism to still be relevant since it is us, after all, who took so many in after the war, and now export it worldwide. And please understand that i am just offering alternative, valid reflections to your post, and don't mean to negate it entire. I agree completely with the last paragraph--actually the moreso, as i know that satan runs the world, and thus our government--which is actively trying to kill you, and has even said as much. Want quotes?

So please don't scoff. No, i don't know what any of those Sophist words mean, hardly (but i do know philosophy is yack), and i am a Christian, for better or worse; although the term has become so warped now that i prefer "follower of Christ."

And i understand that there are other, valid pov's; by all means, let the Spirit be your guide. Calling me a child is just a compliment, i hope you understand; it took me a long time to forget what "Hegelian Dialectics" were. Ty God that they now sound like something one might be able to get a prescription for. Hegelian Dialectics were invented by a teacher--meaning "one who could not do." Too much study truly makes only "weary." If you would like to actually discuss the issues in the posts, let me know. Peace to you.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

Did someone say something?

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

ok but at least recognize that Naziism was the will of the people at the time; Hitler was democratically elected, not majikally foisted upon the populace. Think about that.

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Shazeep are you talking to me?????? I cant hear you. LOL

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Of course he was elected. So was Obama. That doesn't translate to "Christians created Obamanism".

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well, again i might ask "how do you know?" I am willing to bet that 99% of those who voted for the O would define themselves as "Christians;" and Scripture gives pretty good evidence that God judges a nation based upon those who are called by His Name, and the rest, the "waters," if you will, are not even counted. Also, it seems kind of disingenuous--if one considers themselves a "patriot," anyway--to disavow their leader. Again, just lobbing grenades here; there is also a sense in which i understand and even agree with you.

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Our loyalty is not to "the leader", but to the Constitution.

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Well, that amounts to an artifice, it seems to me, if the elected leader administers the Connie. I know it is uncomfortable to contemplate--or at least it was for me--but you cannot serve two masters. Understand why words like "loyalty, allegiance, patriotism" are drummed into us from age zero, but school kids spend about 2 hours, total, if that, studying the Connie; and of course prayer is now illegal.

Re: 4 Reasons Apostolics Shouldn't Protest
 

So then cut Romans 13 out of your bible.

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Well, i can remain a subject to the leaders, and even pray for them, and still understand Romans 13 in the context of 1Sam8. And still recognize that human government is not God's plan for a believer. At any rate, i take Rom 13 in context, and obey just laws--but not "to a fault." None of these require my allegiance, nor my loyalty.

I'm curious, just as a thought experiment; whom would one justly obey if some UN rep came to them and required a more moral action that went against their country's law? Regardless of the available dodges there, it can easily be argued that they are a higher "leader."

And really, how far down this road must anyone go to see that they are now fully "in the world?" How much more "in the world" can one get? I mean, you're right below "running for office" at that point. Don't get me wrong--if this were even 100 years ago, Connie still more or less valid, my answers might be different--to my shame, actually.