Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Is the Bible all you need for your morality?

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

(Can't wait for Mike Blume to come tell me my question is amiss, or something. :heeheehee)

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

The same Spirit that guided the writers of Scripture can guide the born again believer.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Thanks for voting. A "No" here implies that you need more than the Bible for morality. Can you give an example of a moral tenet that wasn't derived from the Bible, but came to your from the HS? (Or am I missing something? As usual. :lol)

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

60 views, one vote. Buncha chickens. :lol

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Me thinks the poll question is tricky.......if you mean do I believe the Bible contains all the necessary "moral code" that I need to live by....the answer is yes.

If you are asking does one need more than the Bible to possess morality....the answer is YES! I can have the Bible memorized and tattooed on my eyelids (that would be rather interesting/painful I would think) but but that makes me no more moral than standing in the garage makes me a car.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

well put.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Yes, that's the question I intended.

Meaning just knowing what it says isn't enough: you have to put it into practice?

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

I like how Bishop H put it so well. You could sit and read the Bible every day all day long, but without the SPIRIT of the Lord to illuminate your understanding, it will be just a good book.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

:thumbsup :thumbsup

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Please excuse me for interupting, but might I add.
You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you.
That's in the bible.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Does he have to be a pastor to be considered a man of God?

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Sean,
With all due respect,

I think if you know the word well enough you can answer that question. I also think you have an opinion. I’m sure we are all about to read it.:blah

Your answer can be found in Eph 4:11-13
If the 5fold ministry is not actively in your life your morality is based on how you perceive the word, instead of the mysteries of God being delivered unto you.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Brother, I have been in Apostolic/Pentecost for 35plus years.


I kinda gave up propping up a manna God and became one myself. I never found one that taught perfect truth, so I had to be MY OWN man of God to keep from being led astray or parroting the administrations' false teachings.

I think that is the intention of the Holy Ghost for mankind. (when the man gets out of the way and Jesus becomes our Man of God).

Now that I am a Man of God(for myself), I train others to put Jesus, alone as their priest or Man of God. This makes my role as a servant/ teacher and spiritual equal to the new believer. I spend my efforts making THEM into saints or men of God that are dependent on Jesus ONLY, not me.




The "MannaGod" concept that we have been taught, such as the mediatory role between man and God is derived from Old Testament stories that are not relevant to the role of the N.T. believer today. Case in point....In the Old Testament, the "folks" had priests to go to God for them, but in the N.T., we ALL are priests because our bodies are the temples when we receive the Spirit.
Therefore, every believer should be trained in their role as priests unto their God, not to serve an O.T. priest type on earth(aka pastor)

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

:dogpat

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

:popcorn2

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Where exactly in the Bible does it say you need a "man of God" to show you?

You mentioned Eph. 4:11-13. I find nowhere in that scripture where it says a "man of God" must show you. Instead we find a list of five different types of servant ministries that are given.

Eph. 4:11-13
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

The five fold ministry was given to 1) perfect the saints; 2) for the work of the ministry, and 3) to edify the body of Christ. The outcome of this ministry would be to bring all into the unity of the faith, knowledge of the son of God, and unto a perfect man in Christ.

A servant ministry, such as those listed in the 5-fold ministry in the NT church were not rulers, or lords, or kings, or dictators over God's people, or else they would be contradicting Jesus words in Mark 10:42-45

"Mark 10:42-45
But Jesus called them to him, and saith unto them, Ye know that they which are accounted to rule over the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and their great ones exercise authority upon them. But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

With all due respect,

This is a prime example of why you need a pastor.

Please explain how you view the story of Cornelius the man of God Devout, gave much alms, prayed to God always, and feared God with all his house, and was in tuned in enough to the Spirit to see visions. But he needed a Pastor. That's why God sent Peter because he was not saved.
Acts 10:1-3

Sincerely:smack
,
J.A. Perez

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

I've been told the reason people must have a Pastor is the part which says, "for the perfecting of the saints."

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Wow. Sir, I would suggest you read Acts 10 again, since what is posted above is void of understanding of the text. And for future reference, if you're going to try to belittle someone by saying, "This is a prime example of why you need a pastor" and using that smiley, you should post something which proves that having a Pastor makes you smarter than not having a Pastor.

Acts 10 and the story of Cornelius and Peter has absolutely nothing to do with needing a Pastor.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

1) Cornelius did not have a vision, he saw an Angel of the Lord
2) Peter had the vision of the unclean animals
3) The purpose of Peter going to meet with Cornelius is not because Cornelius needed a Pastor.

The purpose of Acts 10 was to fulfil what Jesus said in Acts 1:8 - to be witnesses in "in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth." Until Acts 10, the Holy Ghost had only fallen on Jews. Cornelius was the first Gentile filled with the Holy Ghost.

The reason God sent Peter to Cornelius was to show the Holy Ghost and salvation was for Gentiles also.

Again, nothing to do with needing a Pastor.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

I was not trying to insult your ignorance so I avoided the example we have on record of a biblical truth found in Acts 8:31.
I figured you might already know.
Here we have a man on his way to Jerusalem to worship, just him and his Bible. The example here is that when your hunger reaches God, He will send you a Man of God to show you.

Sincerely:dogpat,
J.A. Perez

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Excuse me,
I have decieved myself, I thought that everyone looking at the simple example of Cornelius could see that his faith and works werent enough. He Needed a visitation of an angel to prefare him for the message that there was more to living for God than What he had.
I also do conceed that the purpose was twofold as to include the Gentiles. But I wasn't trying to make that point.

Im sure you are aware that some of the scripture is prophetic, literal and other times principle. This is an example of two Prophecy and principle.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

In your original post, you equated a "man of God" to a pastor. This is where your premise is wrong. The eunuch on his way to Jerusalem was sent someone who was part of the 5-fold ministry - Philip who was an evangelist - and NOT a pastor. Peter went to Cornelius as an evangelist, and NOT a pastor.

The term you are using "man of God" does not equate "pastor" ANYWHERE in the NT. Prove it with scripture if it does. ;)

Neither does your quote have any biblical basis in the NT either: "You also need a Man of God (a pastor) to show you. That's in the bible."

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

With all due respect,

If you do not see a Pastor as a Man of God, as related to the 5-fold ministry. I cannot argue the point.

In my opinion it is very clear that what God did in the old Testament with the "Seer/Prophet" was a combined 5 fold ministry in one man. Just like at times when the spirit moves on my pastor he works in the role as a shepherd/pastor and others he works in the office as a teacher, then at times works in the spirit of an evangelist, and in oversight and management of the various ministries in the local church he works toward growth as an Apostle.

I understand that the Man of God in the Old Testament is a type and shadow of the men that now fill New Testament 5 Fold Ministry.

Sincerely,
J.A. Perez

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

You asked for a NT verse,
Ephesians 4:11-13

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

1Corinthians 4:1

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

2nd Timothy 3:16-17

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Brother, I would like to see that verse for myself please...

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
Brother, I have been in Apostolic/Pentecost for 35plus years.


I kinda gave up propping up a manna God and became one myself. I never found one that taught perfect truth, so I had to be MY OWN man of God to keep from being led astray or parroting the administrations' false teachings.

I think that is the intention of the Holy Ghost for mankind. (when the man gets out of the way and Jesus becomes our Man of God).

Now that I am a Man of God(for myself), I train others to put Jesus, alone as their priest or Man of God. This makes my role as a servant/ teacher and spiritual equal to the new believer. I spend my efforts making THEM into saints or men of God that are dependent on Jesus ONLY, not me.
The "MannaGod" concept that we have been taught, such as the mediatory role between man and God is derived from Old Testament stories that are not relevant to the role of the N.T. believer today. Case in point....In the Old Testament, the "folks" had priests to go to God for them, but in the N.T., we ALL are priests because our bodies are the temples when we receive the Spirit.
Therefore, every believer should be trained in their role as priests unto their God, not to serve an O.T. priest type on earth(aka pastor)






With all due respect,

This is a prime example of why you need a pastor.

Please explain how you view the story of Cornelius the man of God Devout, gave much alms, prayed to God always, and feared God with all his house, and was in tuned in enough to the Spirit to see visions. But he needed a Pastor. That's why God sent Peter because he was not saved.
Acts 10:1-3

Sincerely
,
J.A. Perez




Bro. Perez, the current system is flawed regarding pastorial heirarchy and actually originated in Catholicism.
That is why Catholics are so easily converted to our system.
The PRIEST is replaced by the PASTOR as their mediatorial spiritual advisor, allowing carnal man to take the place of their savior. Folks are trained to run to their pastor in their dillema's and not to their Lord Jesus.
You know why the ministry of Catholics and Protestants DEMAND this role in the lives of the believer???

POWER AND MONEY!!!

If you made them volunteer their services and become servants, instead of being served and lauded by saints, they would most entirely quit ministering(with the exception of few).



This concept of mine was actually what Jesus taught to his disciples.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Case in point...


Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.

31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

33 I have coveted no man's silver, or gold, or apparel.

34 Yea, ye yourselves know, that these hands have ministered unto my necessities, and to them that were with me.

35 I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye(overseers) ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.(overseers giving to the saints here)

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Amen to that; but trust that you have just described the real pastors out there, who are many. And no one made them, either!

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

These days, I see the weak supporting the overseers!!!

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

If the Lord will use a single individual to fulfill the 5-fold ministry, why name the 5 offices?

The Lord instituted ONE ministry in 5 offices. They are designed to COMPLEMENT one another,
and to SUBMIT one to another.
A pastor is NOT called to be the highest entity in the ministry.
Furthermore, there is a major difference between being used in the "gifts", and occupying one
or more offices! For example: the "gift of prophecy" does not constitute a prophet (ministry):
but a prophet must necessarily exercise the "gift of prophecy".

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

Very good.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

I too am wondering where you are finding the type and shadow of the OT "man of God" that is specifically referenced in the NT as being a fulfillment of the NT ministry.

Nowhere in the OT do I see the prophet Isaiah, Jeremiah, or any of the rest of them, ruling over a group of people, taking their "tithe", and telling them how to live, and making sure they come to their church every Sunday. How is the OT prophet an extension of the NT ministry?

Simple answer - it's not. Jesus is our High Priest, and he is the Head of the body of Christ, the church. Those who minister in the body are not elevated above other parts of the body, but they are able to provide support, and help to encourage, strengthen, and help the body function together as a body. Nowhere in Paul's illustrations about the ministry do we see any man being given a role that would allow him to be a dictator over any part of the body of Christ.

Ministry is servanthood in the simplest way of explaining it. Study out the word minister, or ministry sincerely and be honest with yourself in the results you find.

What you have believed all along about the ministry has been taught to you by your "man of God' and it most likely has simply been a twist of scriptures to prop up their ministry and their kingdom building, and not the kingdom God.

Re: Is the Bible all you need for your morality?
 

I am not trying to debate as if everyone here is wrong and I am right. I haven’t had time to respond to the your statements individually. I bolded them and will answer to the best of my ability.

God has always given me a pastor after his heart. Sincere men that have done their best. They have not all been perfect but have all been fair. I am sorry that you have not been given that from God. I on the other hand am a blessed man, God has been good to me. My pastor bailed me out of jail, let me live with him and his dear old wife, preached Calvary to me, preached me into the altar, Baptized me in Jesus name, prayed that God would and did fill me with the Holy Ghost, helped me get enrolled back in school, got me an apartment next to the church, taught me personal bible study on church off nights, gave me money for food, paid my rent, was a shoulder to cry on, later, Baptized my brother, baptized my wife and prayer her thru to the Holy Ghost, helped me pay my mortgage, gave me money to buy diapers, dedicated my kids, prayed my kids thru to the Holy Ghost, Baptized them, counseled my marriage, corrected me when I was wrong, shown me a way that is called straight, Preached the Devil off my back and heavens blessing down, walked the floor night after night until my heard head would receive correction, taught me to abstain from evil taught me the why's of living righteous and to not love the world, and most of all he has preached the Gospel to me and my family. Tithing is well earned and so minor in the light of all he has done. I hope one day he buys the finest truck money could buy and the finest house on the market. He deserves it, he has also done the same for countless others in our local assembly. This story of mine started 19yrs ago.

I am for the Pastor!
There is no higher authority in the local church than he.
J.A.Perez