Reason for Church Services
 

Question: What, and for whom is our gathering together for church services?

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

This willl be interesting. I'll start with this one. 1. Address the needs of the body.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

To worship God, first of all. By gathering in his name and with his Spirit we join the Heavenly Worship now in progress. We offer sacrifices and offerings to God (our praises and our prayers) and we bless his holy name.

In addition to this, meeting together is for the building up of his Temple (his people) including ministry from one to another, so that God speaks to us, by speaking through us, for instruction, comfort, admonition, etc.

It's for him and we benefit. In short, we have fellowship with God.

If you're at the point where you are wondering "what's the point of it all?" then you are obviously dissatisfied. Therefore God is wanting you go deeper into his Word and become more Biblical in your worship. Seek God's direction and he will provide.

Remember, the church participates in the Heavenly worship, so the more in line we are with that heavenly service the more Biblical our worship will be, and the more the church's proper functions will be fulfilled.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Luke 4:18 (KJV)

18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me, because He hath anointed Me to preach the Gospel to the poor. He hath sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,

(what)
A place set aside specifically for His worship.

(who and purpose)
Its all about Jesus, anointing a man to preach thus healing then enabling God's people to minister to others.

Just Like in the beginning, God spoke and there was life. Today God uses unworthy vessels of clay made in His image to speak Life by His Spirit.

Missionary Ngota Aston "Preaching, God's Choice"

a nobody,
J.A. Perez

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

it's hard to deny that we have come a long way from the early church model, wherein these people were a community as well as a congregation.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

We assemble together to exhort one another and feed the saints to work for the Lord in whatever capacity their lives are in. To equip them to come to unity of the faith and not be children tossed about. To see each member supply their part.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Hebrews 10:19-25
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of God;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Paraphrasing the emphasis of this passage - believers are to draw near together with a true heart of faith, holding fast the profession of our faith, considering one another, provoking one another unto love and good works, meeting together and exhorting one another as often as possible.

Simply to answer your question - With faith in our hearts, we meet to worship Jesus, to fellowship with one another, and exhort one another as often as possible.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Awesome!

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Wonderful!

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Yes, we present ourselves before the Lord in worship and praise.
But the Ministry must also fulfill their calling: give themselves
over "...continually to prayer and the ministry of the
word." (Eph. 4:12)

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Not sure anybody left that out???

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...out of what? the 5-10 hours a week most church doors are unlocked these days?

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Touche!

I notice the biblical pattern seems to be one where apostles, elders, what have you were busy DAILY teaching the word. I imagine a teaching elder making a circuit among the people, instructing and exemplifying Christian doctrine and practice, according to their needs.

Kind of like "discipleship" or something...

Not sure how that would be put into practice in today's culture tho.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

We were talking about this today with some friends. It seems that homes in the early church were known as a gathering place for believers, and seemed to be open to traveling ministers, and believers alike. I wonder how this could work in today's culture as well.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Americans tend to view their home as the one place they get to "get away from it all". Thus hospitality is not what it was in biblical times.

However, I suppose if evangelism included a call to discipleship, so that new converts were EXPECTING to be taught at their level, it wouldn't be too hard to schedule say a weekly meeting with the new convert for discipleship purposes, to teach by both precept and example the basics of the faith (especially practical matters like prayer and personal consecration to God).

New converts should probably spend as much time as practical with elders or at least those older in the faith. Jesus hung with his disciples all the time pretty much and they learned by his lifestyle and example as well as his more formal teaching. Thus when they join the regular meeting each week or whenever they will be in a better position to "give rather than receive" ministry, if that makes sense.

But I really think the pre-conversion and immediate post-conversion teaching is of paramount importance. The type of evangelism a person experiences often stamps permanently their future walk.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Interesting thought,
Unfortunately it would be unethical. I would of loved to have had men like G.T. Haywood, A. Glass, J.E. Rhode J. Duke, D. Grey, A.L. Lyle, V. Shoemake, C.P. Kilgore, O. Vouga, O. Hughes, Verbal Bean, C. Shew, M. Golder, B. Yandris, R.C. Cavanes, C. Ballestero, L. Reynolds, H. Shearer, M. Baughman, S.L. Wise, F. Muncey, I.H. Terry, I. Baxter Sr., V.A. Guidroz, M. Burr, J. Davis, H. Davis, M.D. Treece, J. Meade, R. Evans, A.O. Holmes, L.E. Westberg, C.J. Haney, T.W. Barnes, V. Morton, J.T. Bass, F. Ewart, R.E. Johnson, J. Alvear Sr., E.L. Holly, T. Alexander, E.L. Freeman, B. Garrett, C.H. Webb, M. Hicks, O.F. Fauss, and A.D. Urshan to feel like they could have just showed up at the 'ol Perez house for some Beans, Cornbread and piano singing time around the fireplace. (Boy wouldn't that be a line-up to hear at conference!)

Ethics, for better or for worse, till death due us part.

Instead I'll just read their books listen to them preach and wait till I get to heaven to ask all the questions I've got, after the first million years of talking to Jesus I might get around to it.

Wont that be a time,
J.A. Perez

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

What about unbelievers?

1Co 14:22 Thus tongues are a sign not for believers but for unbelievers, while prophecy is a sign not for unbelievers but for believers.
1Co 14:23 If, therefore, the whole church comes together and all speak in tongues, and outsiders or unbelievers enter, will they not say that you are out of your minds?

Sadly, it wouldn't work, as there are too many schisms in the body. Too many interested in only building up their personal kingdom on earth. There are churches of the same organization which don't fellowship with others, much less those who believe the same on salvation, but differ on the added, man-made standards.

I think it's incredible, and sad, that GT Haywood would have been run out of your church and condemned for his facial hair. Clyde Haney would've been barred from your church's pulpit because his wife wore jewelry. In fact, most of the founders of modern day Pentecost would be considered sinful outcasts, or "Charismatic" by you because of facial hair or jewelry.

The replies here are very interesting.

Growing up in the UPC church my father pastored, Sunday services were always considered evangelistic, while the mid-week service was for deeper study of God's Word for believers. Folks were always getting baptized and receiving the Holy Ghost.

Recently I heard a message in which the Pastor stated that church was for believers only. He stated the pearl of great price was the church, and Jesus purchased the field only for the church. He also quoted John 3:16 and stated the reason was God so loved the church. 1 Corinthians 1:21 was also used as evidence that it's for believers only.

This is why that church doesn't preach salvation during a service, and why they don't pray for people to receive the Holy Ghost, because the church is for believers only - for their instruction, reproof, rebuke, etc. Any message of salvation, any praying for the Holy Ghost should be done day to day outside the church.

It's interesting that many responses seem to agree that services are for believers.

Personally, I believe there should be time for instructing the believers, and I do believe there should be personal evangelism every day, outside the church walls. But I don't believe services should be a private club for members only, where salvation is not preached and nonbelievers are not given the opportunity to be saved.

The pearl of great price is Jesus, not the church. God so loved the sinful world, He came. Jesus wasn't born for the righteous, but for sinners. He didn't come out of great love for the church, but because He loves sinners. And while the foolishness of preaching saves those who believe, they may not have believed before hearing the Gospel preached.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

We are told to "Go", to take the gospel OUT THERE into the world. The church isn't "for" believers, it IS the believers.

Part of our problem has been the idea that our gatherings are for evangelism. Thus the church becomes devoted to "attraction" of people instead of proclamation of the gospel. And thus we turn the church into a franchise trying to sell a better Jesus than the other McChurches in town. Instead of witnessing we satisfy ourselves with "inviting people to church". We focus on flowers in the foyer and pads on the pews and dressing up the building to appeal to folks. We design our music NOT to please our holy God but to allure people and "move" people. We preach less of God's Truth and more of our pop psychology to make folks feel good about coming to OUR precious little corner of the religious market. Why? So we can get the most people to come, and get 'em coming back, and build our great big fancy kingdom, and so we can feel good about ourselves even though we hardly ever speak to our neighbors (let alone witness to them).

I'm all for evangelistic meetings. But "build it and they will come" is a line from Hollywood, not holy Scripture. When our worship is designed to entice the lost into loving our God (and us ...) it will sooner or later get off track and perveted into marketing gimmicks.

As the TEMPLE of God our purpose is service to God. We should be more outward directed in our evangelism. Sinners see us for what we've become: Jesus salesmen peddlin our particular brand of religion... no different than anyone else.

That preacher you mentioned, he's got it all wrong though, think that's obvious.

But regardless, what did they do in scripture? Does our model match theirs? If not, why not?

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

I dont get it. What do you mean by it would be unethical? What would be?

Yes, the church is the body of Christ, I'm talking more about the services.

I agree we shouldn't get caught up in trying to out-church other churches. Again, thinking back on growing up, there was just the Gospel preached and opportunity for sinners to receive salvation. No gimmicks or programs. This was well before video projectors and special stage lighting.

It is important to be reaching out daily in personal evangelism. But our services should also allow for the visitors and sinners who come to a service looking for salvation specifically because it's a church.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

For an institutional church setting, yes services need to make an effort to reach visitors, absolutely.

I don't think it really matters much these days tho. We are infected as a movement with a sales-marketing-find the latest gimmick-outdo the competition mindset. Probably because we don't have enough Holy Ghost in our meetings to begin with so we gotta "make up the difference"...

You know, all this dissatisfaction has got to lead somewhere... revival, hopefully...

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

I didn't mention the unbeliever in my earlier post, but it wasn't intentional. I certainly believe that a gathering of believers should most often include unbelievers who are hungry and searching for truth. Like the verse Prax quoted - there has to be a place for unbelievers to come to be persuaded of the glorious gospel of the Lord.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

I wondered the same thing when I read this post. Perhaps Bro. J. you can better explain why it would be unethical for any of the men you mentioned to gather in your home for a meeting? :hmmm

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Mike, Word,
Some people (for lack of a better word lay-saint) are not mature enough in the Lord to know that there are differences in beliefs even among Good men and women. And they will take a little thing that someone else believes or says and divide, abstain, or not fellowship, instead of excepting our minor differences for the sake of unity. For instance I take my shoes off in my in-laws house because of their cultural tradition, in my house I wear shoes, but I better not bring muddy boots in and leave tracks all over the tiles. The reasoning is I respect my in-laws convictions, and I expect them to do the same at my house. However neither of us will allow the extreme of muddy boots in the house. The same is for the traditions of the various elders we all clan around. A newer saint might benefit by the influence of an elder like Haywood or Bean but they might not understand the whys and why not's of their own local assembly they belong, and not be able to Draw the lines in Perfect(Pleasant) Places. I've even seen this in some seasoned saints as well. Not that I'm mature but God has dealt with me on these things. The example above can be used in the place of Pre- or Post Trib rapture like my great, great uncle M. Baughman taught, and many Good men loved to have him in their pulpits. But they both would never except Preterism. These are the things why, not because it might not be good its because of the lack of stability and understanding in us.
Thus ethics is a protection we use to prevent confusion and provide safety.

Hope that was acceptable,
J.A. Perez

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

P.S.
This is the reason this forum is so dangerous. Though many in here are honest and are just trying to help. Our varried opinions can cause confusion in an assembly. By a person who hears a teaching differently may cause that unstable or unlearned person to attend a service and start to look at their pastor wrong or start question structure in the arrangement in government, or the particular stand that man is making about " a bean Patch." To us it may be a poiness bean patch but for you it may have big problems with people in your church that you don't know about. That your pastor has had to deal with you about or about others. Landmarks aren't always boarders for us as limits they are so set to mark the line the coyotes can't cross.
With questions about ethics preachers on this furum know there limits. But that's how the devil works to see discord amongst brethren. Because we don't know who each other really are, just a picture with a word or name.
And let me tell you I can tell if my kids been hanging around the wrong kids, it shows up sometimes in their additude or speech. "Evil communication corrupts good manners."

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

No comment? If these were house churches...how did unbelievers know about these meetings and walk in?

Perhaps they were invited.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

post 21 was a gem, E
it is hard to deny that the Spirit is moving from the church, and one must personally consider if they are being called to follow it. The history of belief in One God is a history of Diaspora; congregations of believers blasted apart--basically forced out to put their new-found beliefs into action.

Imagine heading out into the sunset without a purse or spare shirt. This is not some mythical story, meant to convey a moral principle. This is the Spirit in action. As unimaginable as it might seem for most people reading this--and sorry, because this is going to mess a few people up--the very best thing you could do for your soul would be to follow them.

The "fact" that it is completely ridiculous, given your current lifestyle and commitments, is...simply not reality; it is what is keeping you from reality. Commit to shedding commitments and going within a month, or a year. It doesn't matter who you are. The Spirit will guide you. You will not die, although you are going to wish you were dead a lot--just ask Jonah et al. Just slog on with as much grace as you can muster, and find the joy of the Lord along the way. It is enough.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

I doubt these are unbelievers who just walk in off the street with no connection whatsoever. Most likely someone who had been invited to come by a member, or family member. Although, if a meeting was getting down with the Holy Ghost I can see the neighbors or even passers-by stopping in and asking "What meaneth this?"

Besides, in THAT day, the church was busy "out there" causing an uproar and turning the whole world upside down. So word gets around fast just like with Jesus and people show up demanding to know what's going on.

But with all that, the Bible never describes a church meeting as geared toward winning the lost or focusingon "seekers". Evangelism was outreach oriented, usually public. Once converted, or at the very least clearly identified as "convert material" ie highly interested and open to the gospel, they might come and see what it's all about.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

If that is true then church meetings are not just for believers

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If I invite the neighbors over for dinner does that mean family dinners are not just for family?

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My experience has been that if I have been a "true" witness, people will ask me where I fellowship (go to church). I never invite people to "church": I invite them to know the Lord Jesus.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Again, your expression of this thought about ethics belies the fact that you truly believe the pastor can set up laws and boundaries per his own ideas, and that those in his church are expected to comply.

But if you would stop and consider the fact that leadership in the church is to lead by example as servants unto the Lord, and couple this with the teaching of Jesus (Mark 10:42-45) that the disciples were not to be as Lord's over the people, then you realize this is a false teaching, and understanding.

You don't have to micromanage God's people to have them be saved. You teach them principles from the Word of God, and teach them to be led of the Spirit in application. If the spirit cannot teach people how to live a godly, holy life, how do you expect a man's laws to be able to do something the spirit cannot?

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And it is in this kind of personal way that you can lead people to the Lord, putting their focus on him, and encouraging them in the way of the gospel, and when they have been persuaded that they want to follow Jesus, it would be then you could introduce them to the body of believers.

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

amen
and amen! :D

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

I believe it is...

Ephesians 4:11-12
And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

Re: Reason for Church Services
 

Wouldn't the "for the work of the ministry" include reaching out to nonbelievers?