My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Friends of ours invited me to visit a Messianic congregation that meets in a town nearby. I thought it would be interesting to go.

We arrived a bit late, and unfortunately the door that opened into the hall where they were meeting was at the front of the room, so we had to walk in where every one could see us. I almost turned and left at that point lol!

We had to walk through a group of ladies and girls who were all in skirts and who were in a circle, dancing to the song that was playing. Their dancing was very solemn and consisted mostly of waving their arms, and bowing and almost seemed ballerina-like. In fact, most of the girls or women were in slippers, socks or bare feet as they danced.

I asked my friends what the meaning was for the women to do this, and they weren't sure themselves.

The ladies' dance lasted about 45 minutes, which was terribly long. I was glad we were late when I realized that! The service started at 3, and we arrived around 3:30, and the ladies finished dancing at 3:45.

As soon as the ladies finished dancing, they all went to their seats and put prayer shawls or head coverings on their heads. Then a lot of Hebrew speaking and rituals were performed, one of which included everyone in the room turning east and repeating the Shemah (I think that is what it was called). Everyone stood during this time. Also, three portions of scriptures were read, one from the Torah (a passage in Leviticus), one from the prophets (Jeremiah), and one from the NT (Matthew).

After the Hebrew speaking, Bible portions, and several other things (not sure what they were, done in Hebrew) were done, everyone sat down, and the ladies took off their head coverings.

Then the leader of the group got up and began to speak. He was an excellent speaker, didn't need a microphone as his voice carried easily and well, and he was a great teacher, in that he spoke loud, clearly, and was easy to listen to.

I didn't understand or catch all of what he said, because many times he would say things in Hebrew. But, much of what he said was good, although a couple of things I disagreed with.

At one point, he specifically spoke against soul sleep, which I found interesting. He was quite adamant that there is no such thing as soul sleep teaching in the scriptures.

After the teaching ended, the ladies all put their head coverings on for the prayer and the blessing over the food.

Then the leader's wife invited me to the head of the line for the food, as I was a visitor. I tried to decline but she would not have it, so I graciously accepted. The food was wonderful, and many of the people in the congregation came by to introduce themselves and visit with our friends and I.

Overall, it was a pleasant experience. I certainly don't see what the reason could be for the women to do the dance for 45 minutes. Maybe someone here knows the significance behind that?

Anyway, I may or may not visit again. One thing that was certainly lacking was any opportunity for the spirit to move, which is sad to me. I see so many people that get caught up in their traditions and rituals of worship, and certainly are sincere about them, but there is never any room for the spirit of the Lord to move in their midst.

Anyway, just thought I would share my experience and wonder if anyone else has visited a Messianic gentile congregation, and what their experiences were. Our friends who I visited with have only been going a short time, and are still learning much themselves.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Is this a mixture of Christianity and Judaism?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Yes, absolutely it is. They believe in Jesus being the Messiah, but also believe in the Sabbath, Torah, and obviously many other Jewish traditions as well.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

So did ONLY the women dance? Did the men wear headcoverings and if so did they remove them when they prayed or took part in ministry?

To bad they reject the teaching on soul sleep. Its exactly like Oneness. If you start with the Tanach you will find it. If you start with the New Testament you will not.

Most Messianics also find we must keep Sabbath and Festivals and believe either in Trinity or Arianism.

Personally I like the idea of using the Hebrew name "Yeshua" which they mostly do.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Yes, only the women and girls danced. The men just watched, which I found strange.

Only the leader or rabbi wore a little black hat. I don't think he ever took it on or off. Two other men plus the leader had a long white "scarf" with Hebrew writing on it, and also had four blue and white tassels hanging from their belt loops.

I think, from what they said, that they believe more like the Jehovah's Witness with the Father and the Son, and the spirit being shared between them and us, or something like that. ?? Hard to grasp everything in one visit.

I have no problem with using the name Yeshua, however I know the Lord answers to both. I don't see anywhere in scripture where you must call the Lord only by a Hebrew name.

On the soul sleep - the leader used Luke 16:19-31 to demonstrate that Jesus told many parables (he said a parable would always be understood as a parable when names were not mentioned). However, in the case of Lazarus and the rich man, he says it was not a parable because names were mentioned, therefore making it a story, and an event that happened. Therefore since this was an actual event that took place, this defeats the idea of soul sleep, because obviously the rich man and Lazarus were not asleep, but were knowledgeable of their surroundings. (This was how he taught it.)

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

I attended a Messianic meeting years ago and wound up getting in trouble. I asked the leader why he was covering his head in the meeting. He got angry and started calling me names.

Then some people that came from our Church were caught handing out Oneness tracts. The leader got on the mic and warned the people against us saying we were spreading "deviant" doctrine.

I do honor our "Hebrew Roots" and am especially blessed by Messianic music and worship.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

IMHO there simply CANNOT be a TRUE "Messianic" Christian, that is to say, Jews who have believed in Christ Jesus as the promised "Son of God," for the TRUE descendants of the patriarchs Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have been rendered utterly incapable of recognizing or acknowledging Him as such!

Instead some of these descendants of Israel have been deceived into accepting what might rightly be called a "pseudo" Christ, that is, "another Jesus" as Paul wrote about in II Corinthians 11:3-4.

Please consider the following proclamations from God concerning Israel's state during the time that His judgment of gross spiritual blindness would rest upon their minds, and which effectively prevents them from proper discernment between truth and error, good and evil:

"The LORD shall smite thee with madness, and blindness, and astonishment of heart: and thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee." (Deuteronomy 28:28-29).

God, through the words of His prophet Jeremiah, warned the rebellious Jews when this "curse" would be imposed upon them, saying, "... in the day of their visitation they shall be cast down, saith the LORD" (Jeremiah 8:12).

We discover the actual imposition of this prophesied "curse" being rendered by the Lord Jesus Christ, when an occasion arose as He was about to enter into the city of Jerusalem, paused, and said, "If thou hadst known, even thou, at least in this thy day, the things which belong unto thy peace! But NOW they are hid from thine eyes ... because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation" (see Luke 19:41-44).

At that moment God imposed a "spiritual" blindness upon that generation of Jews, a judgment which has remained in effect to the present day, and will continue in effect until His promised second "visit" (with limited exceptions, of course, that I will briefly mention).

This judgment of gross spiritual blindness did NOT mean that the ability of ever Jew was immediately rendered incapable of discerning between good and evil, truth and error, rather it meant that by the death of every member of that generation, then ALL Jews thereafter would experience its full impact. This is why we find Pater, in his first sermon, warning his Jewish audience, saying to them, "Save yourselves from this untoward generation" (Acts 2:40). Peter knew very well that after that present generation had passed away, then NO Jews thereafter could be saved. Such is the situation the present-day Jew is confronted with.

There is to come a moment in the future, when the period commonly known as the "times of the Gentiles" has come to its end, at which time the same judgment of gross "spiritual" blindness will be imposed upon every unrepentant Gentile (see Lamentations 1:21-22). At that time God will again turn His attention back to the Israeli people, even choosing 12,000 of them from each of their 12 tribes, and will cause them to be "sealed ... in their foreheads" (see Revelation 7:3-9); implying that these will be "sealed," just as have been, with the Holy Ghost. These will, of course, also be water baptized "in the name of the Lord Jesus," and become one of the "two witnesses" mentioned in Revelation 11:3 (comprised of both Jew and Gentile) who will prophesy for 1,260 days before being slain by the Anti-Christ and his deceived followers.

Much more could be said about these things, however, in writing this I pray that it be understood that it is IMPOSSIBLE for a "true" descendant of Israeli, at least at the present time, to possess a proper understanding of the identity of the "Son of God," that is, the same Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in whom we have believed and been "sealed" with His Spirit and baptized in the waters of baptism "in his name." Therefore it MUST be concluded that the so called Messianic Christianity is nothing more tban a pseudo religion, and must be shunned.

As stated, In My Humble Opinion, submitted for your consideration of its merits.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

um...yikes?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Sorry to see you write such a thing. While MOST "Christian" type religons do present a false Christ even as we speak I have heard over the years there are "Oneness" Apostolic Churches in Jerusalem.

How close "Oneness Pentecostal" is to the faith once delivered would be yet another discussion.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

The descendants of Jacob have recognized Christ. That is in fact the bulk of the history of Christianity.

Modern Jews for the most reject Christ because their religion is Pharisaism (literally). Most Jews/"Israelis" are no more related to Jacob than most Chinese are (per history and their own admissions even).

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Scripture: so easy to apply to others, so hard to apply to ourselves.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Some messianic synagogues are trinitarian. Many others are either Oneness or Arian.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Lafon - while we know that the Gentiles have been given an opportunity for salvation, it does not mean that no Jews cannot hear the truth about the Messiah and believe. Maybe what you are referring to is the Jews as a whole nation, but certainly, I know there are Jews who believe in the Messiah. Just because you may not know of any fully embracing the gospel doesn't mean that there are none.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

there are lots of them. that may have described some period of time; but a Christian cannot even volunteer at a kibbutz anymore, the Jewish youth there being so open to the concept. They are sceered to death of proselytizing, or worse yet, non-proselytizing Christians.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

We all hope that we are walking in truth and have truth. But, I am convinced that while we are doing the best we can, it may not be all the truth there is. However, the scripture that says - by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God - is our hope.

Praise God that if we continue in our faith towards Him, His grace is able to save us and continue to lead us towards Jesus, who is the way, the TRUTH and the life.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

I think, from what was said at the meeting, that they may believe more like the JWs - in the Father and Son, with the same spirit shared between them. What belief is that called?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Are you saying that Jews won't let Christians come into their midst because of the concern of people being led towards Christianity?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

i am fairly convinced that we are going to be left speechless at the deception we live under; me included. Because we naturally run to evil, there is not a single area of our existence that has not been corrupted, imo, unless one has left the world; a very tough thing to do. I am sure God understands this, however--and thank God for Grace!

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

definitely. Understand that Kibbutzim are typically staffed by young Jews; and that a Christian is tolerated and even welcomed, as long as they do not proselytize, in Jewish society. Chaperoned, as it were. The same goes for Muslim society.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Yes, I believe that too. I pray every day that the mercy and grace of the Lord will be sufficient to cover me in His eyes, in spite of my faults, failures and understanding of Him that may not be perfect.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Messianic Christians are very sincere and honestly want to please the Lord, but in my estimation they are the classic legalists. Not all, but many of them do not even regard Paul's writing since they know he spoke against their customs.

Those of them who do recognize Paul's writings believed Paul preached against a twisted version of the Law that Moses and God never intended. They are wrong on that count, too. Paul flatly stated the things Moses wrote about living by works of the law were part of a law that was nailed to the cross.

We need to pray for them that Paul's revelation of the law and the cross really is opened up to them as true light!

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

What is a Jew? Why the fascination with a people and a religious system that failed.

A sister bragged about her son converting to Judaism. I told her Judaism is anti-christ. She replied he's not like that!!

Oh my!! LOL.

We that are in Christ are Abraham's seed.

To be a Jew by some is to be from the tribe of Judah, to follow Judaism and/or whose mother is a Jew.

Messianic Jews--What in the world????

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Wow, KBTW! How interesting. It is nowhere I would want to land, but it is always interesting to me to see what other people do!

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Jews that accept Yeshua as their Messiah. Boast not against the root.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

It's so good they see Jesus is Messiah!!!

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

You are right in that many of them don't like Paul's teachings. I have had friends for many years who are Messianic, and we have gone around and around with long discussions, and have come to an agreement to agree to disagree. You have hit the nail on the head about Paul's teachings. They generally stay in the book of Matthew for the NT, and the OT.

My question to them is this - why did the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15 pull 3 laws out of the 10 commandments and Torah as the only necessity for the Gentiles to keep? They generally don't have an answer for why the Sabbath was not included in that list.

My feeling is that many of the Messianics have tired of the brand of Christianity they were a part of, and felt like they have found something that surely must be genuine. They are very sincere people doing their best to please the Lord. I see that they have focused on a tree instead of seeing the whole forest or in other words - they are focusing on "law" instead of seeing the grace brought to us at Calvary.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Well, I am also considering this. There is a Mennonite congregation that meets in a town close by, and we frequent a store that they own. I've never been to a Mennonite meeting, and am considering visiting there next. lol!

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Unfortunately, my Messianic gentile friends told me that many of their former Baptist friends, who became messianic, have now converted to Judaism, and no longer believe in the Messiah. That is what I find horrifically sad. My Messianic friends were also horrified at such a thing, but I explained to them, that once you begin to immerse yourself too much in a culture that doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah, that can be a sad byproduct of that relationship.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Very good words you gave to those folks.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

How far does that extend?
Could a person who is half Jew be saved?
What about 1/4 or 1/32?
Where is the cut-off?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

God will not blind a Jew for the sin of their ancestors like our good bro. Lafon states. Just my opinion, Lafon! ;)

See Ezekiel 18. God will not cause sons to experience punishment for sins of their fathers. That cannot be true if Jews today are blinded for the sake of their ancestors in Jesus' day. It can only apply to the first century generation of Jews. Aside from that, a jew is blinded like any gentile whom the devil blinded their minds. Not God blinding them for their ancestors' sakes.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Did you just not refute the doctrine of original sin? At least as far as anyone being born under the guilt of sin?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

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Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Agreed. Just trying to walk Lafon down a path so that he will see the fallacy of his words.
I have had to do the same exercise with some that believe the races should not intermarry.

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Does Cohen G Reckart actually have a congregation? Or is he just another internet "ministry"?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

I intend to visit my local Mennonite congregation at some point too!

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

I was dealing with Paul's words in Romans 5 about the issue. Adam made us sinners. You disagree due to ezekiel 18?

Re: My visit to a Messianic service yesterday
 

Appears to be a "dead" website, lol. Clicked on a couple of links that came up tp blank pages....