Are You in an OT Church?
 

If you are reading this, quite possibly :D

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

Hmm... then what is your definition of an OT church?

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

There are no OT churches because the old covenant doesn't exist anymore.

It's like asking anyone is a member of the Whig Party.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

well, you say that, but i note you hold to "an eye for an eye," and i am finding that your belief is hardly fringe.i'm not really sure; i would hazard a guess that most of our churches are. This is a theme that has been developing with me for a while--basically that Christ came 2000 years ago, but we really haven't embraced the NT Church as presented in Acts to this day; except possibly for brief periods in time. Of course, these would be subject to the most vehement of attacks by satan, i guess.

Who can deny that corporately we are fixated on sin, and law? We give lip service to "Laws are made for lawbreakers, moral people do not need laws," you hear a sort of counter-version of it in the gun control argument, "criminals don't care about gun control laws," (which is decisively born out in the stats--the cities with the tightest gun controls seem to have the most gun crime), but many who would call themselves Christian have no problem with the death penalty, or other laws that seem to be in direct conflict with Christ's message.

I'm not trying to cast any blame here; the problem strikes me as near universal. I don't think that we have even really started practicing NT Church. I don't think we have caught up to Christ yet, iow.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

"You hold to an eye for an eye"?

Please explain?

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

There are four points you made that are striking.

(1) I believe you have this backwards. We (the church) HAVE embraced
the NT teachings (which I presume you meant), but we seem to have gotten
AWAY /from them;

(2) To often we DO seem to be fixated on "sin and the Law", when in
reality we should be fixated on the POWER of grace; for He said, "My grace is
sufficient unto you."

(3) again, the death penalty issue is only a symptom of our time. From
the beginning the Lord God has made a difference between "man" and those
He calls "the sons of God". Listen: "Whoso sheds man's blood, by man shall
his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man." So God uses "man"
to execute justice/judgment over murderers and thieves, etc. The Church is to
execute mercy and grace!

(4) It's not that we haven't "caught up": it's that we have gotten away from
those things "...which were from the beginning."

"Come, and let us reason together..."

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

well, good points. I am led to say that they come from a point of view; one that recognizes a falling away in established churches; when i also witness "emerging" churches attempting, at least, to approach grace--and i see the Spirit moving more among street people, and in other unlikely venues, that were in the past more "new-agey." Weird. I find myself wondering if the Spirit hasn't maybe moved to China or something :lol Azusa St seems like a million years ago, huh.
Oh, the death penalty thing; "All Muslims are lost." those things. Stuff most Christians seem to just assume, i guess.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

Oh, by the way, did I happen to tell you that all Muslims are really super lost.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

ya, and I'm pretty sure most Christians believed that even back in the glory days; i'm thinking that was really more an illusion, brought on by better times, and less questioning congregations. Dunno. The quote below seems as true now as then.

"So, it's probably my church/life experiences but I don't want to hear feedback. Well, really, I do but I don't trust people to be honest or right. I expect them to try and lord it over and twist the facts to their advantage and that no matter how good I am or what I give that the feedback will be negative. So, I recoil at feedback. I would like to overcome that negative thought process."

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

You are so confused.

But let me get this straight... you seem to think there are no rules anymore? Crime should not be punished, and it's wrong to have any idea of truth or to recognize anyone one as having or not having truth?

In other words, there are no rules (wouldn't that be a rule?) and there ought not to be any recognition of anything as right or wrong, true or false (isn't that also a rule, and doesn't that imply a recognition of truth and who has it and who doesn't?)...

"Signs, signs, everywhere a sign! Blocking out the scenery, breakin' my mind..."

lol

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

I personally don't get that from shazeep when he posts. Of course he can speak for himself, but this is how I understand him:

In Christ's day, there was a very regimented system of who was and who was not acceptable to the religious aristocracy. If a person fell on the other side of the line, they were marginalized and judged unworthy of the kingdom.

The priests, levites, scribes, and pharisees all looked down on them, thinking themselves to be the superior benefactors and inheriters of God.

Then Jesus comes along and calls all that into question, even to the point of saying they are pretty much wrong about everything. He goes to the judged and marginalized and tells them the kingdom of God belongs them, and not the priests, levites, scribes, and pharisees. He takes those the system and society had kicked out and brings them into the fold, while at the same time taking those who assumed they were superior, and casts them out on their ear, effectively damning them in the process.

So, with such a principle applied today, I believe what shazeep is trying to communicate is that many modern day equivalents to priests, levites, scribes, and pharisees, especially in our movement, are going to find themselves in the same position as those in Christ's day: on their duff, on the outside looking in, while a whole slew of publicans and prostitutes are going to be invited to the table to dine with the Lord.

And so, Christ's teaching of judge not, condemn not comes into play. Jesus may show up at one of our gatherings just like he dined with Simon the Leper, only to chastise and point out our flawed way of thinking, while, another time, He may find a "Zaccheus" just to tell him salvation has come to his house.

If this is what shazeep means, then I can heartily agree. But let's let the man speak for himself...

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

i couldn't have said it better. :)

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

sad to me that those purporting to be the defenders of the faith are actually the chief evildoers. Same as it ever was, i guess.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

The parable or story that Jesus told of those hearing the words "Depart from me, I never knew you"... were spoken to those who apparently had been involved in the work of the Lord.

I pray every day that the Lord would help me to truly honor Him in all I do, and to be accepted by Him.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

Bruda,
The things you say are good but the way you end it is corny.
It's like when the Chinese come here and use a wetsuit to boogie.
You watched to many roger rabbit to much.

Re: Are You in an OT Church?
 

lol