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KeptByTheWord 11-16-2015 05:22 PM

What is SIN?
 
What is sin? Scripture please!

(Having a discussion with my neighbor, and this question came up.) Just thought I would post it here as well.

Scott Pitta 11-16-2015 06:05 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
All unrighteousness is sin. Sometimes sin is called a trespass.

Esaias 11-16-2015 07:16 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1404952)
What is sin? Scripture please!

(Having a discussion with my neighbor, and this question came up.) Just thought I would post it here as well.

1John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

KeptByTheWord 11-16-2015 08:02 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
According to 1 John sin is unrighteousness, and transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Apparently John is the only writer in scripture that actually says "sin is" and defines what sin is. Correct me if I'm wrong? There are a lot of scriptures about sin, but is 1 John is the only place where sin is actually defined as "sin is"?

Then John says:

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


... "he that committeth sin is of the devil..."

In light of that passage, how exactly do we define WHAT is sin?

Esaias 11-16-2015 09:19 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1404980)
According to 1 John sin is unrighteousness, and transgression of the law.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Apparently John is the only writer in scripture that actually says "sin is" and defines what sin is. Correct me if I'm wrong? There are a lot of scriptures about sin, but is 1 John is the only place where sin is actually defined as "sin is"?

I believe that is correct.

Quote:

Then John says:

1 John 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.


... "he that committeth sin is of the devil..."

In light of that passage, how exactly do we define WHAT is sin?
Sin is transgression of the law. Therefore whatever is a transgression of the law of God is sin. Dishonouring your parents is sin. Stealing is sin. Adultery is sin. Why? Because those things are violations of the law of God (transgressions).

The word sin however is also used to describe not merely the action which is forbidden, but (in the case of idolatry) the object which is sinfully (ie unlawfully) worshipped, or the place where such unlarful worship occurs. For example:

Hos_10:8 The high places also of Aven, the sin of Israel, shall be destroyed: the thorn and the thistle shall come up on their altars; and they shall say to the mountains, Cover us; and to the hills, Fall on us.

Amo_8:14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beersheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again.

But sin is defined Biblically as trangression of the law. The law defines and identifies sin:

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Jesus, of course, in the Sermon on the Mount, explained the spiritual application, and extent, of the law to not merely the outward physical action but to the intent of the heart as well, as when he identified unlawful lust as a form of adultery.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

As for 'the devil', the word devil means 'accuser'. It is a term that is taken from the concept of satan being one who accuses the people of God of their sins (see Job, etc). So the 'devil' is generally a NT term for 'satan', which is a Hebrew word for 'adversary' or 'enemy'. So then the 'devil' is the Adversary, that is, one who is opposed to God, his dominion (law), his grace, his divine Plan, etc. The devil 'sins from the beginning', that is, the enemy of God is in transgression, and is from the beginning. One who sins, ie one who transgresses God's law, is 'of the devil', much as Christ said to the Pharisees 'You are of your father the devil'. Being a 'child of' someone is a Hebrew figure of speech (a Hebraism) meaning one is partaking of the characteristic of someone, as if they were biologically descended from that someone. So the sinner is one who follows in the devil's footsteps, and bears the likeness of the devil - the enemy or opposer of God.

Thus, sin is the opposing of God and His ways, which are revealed in the law as explained and understood by the gospel.

Godsdrummer 11-16-2015 10:29 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Esaias 11-17-2015 12:39 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1404992)
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Yes, BUT...

What defines 'good'?

And thus we come back to the law of God, which is in effect the knowledge of what is good and what is evil, is it not?

Since by the law is the knowledge of sin, it follows that the law reveals what is good and what is bad. Good is the obedience to the commandment, and evil is disobedience (transgression) of the commandment.

And further, as a side note, this is why Adam and Eve were forbidden to 'eat the fruit' of the 'tree of the knowledge of good and evil' - that is, they were forbidden to eat the fruit of THE LAW, because the LAW SAYS "THERE IS NONE THAT DOETH RIGHTEOUSNESS, NO NOT ONE." And since we know that whatever the Law says, it says to those under the Law, it follows that all those under the Law (eating the fruit of it) are GUILTY BEFORE GOD, as well all those 'without the law', so that ALL THE WORLD MAY BECOME GUILTY BEFORE GOD.

And going even further, the Law was our SCHOOLMASTER TO BRING US TO CHRIST, because seeing that the Law declares ALL of us to be guilty before God, we see that God hath concluded ALL in unbelief, that He might have Mercy upon ALL.

Glory be to God.

Scott Pitta 11-17-2015 04:25 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
All unrighteousness is sin. I can even say that in Greek.

Later today, I will look up a decent definition of sin.

The ducks are calling my name.

Monterrey 11-17-2015 06:34 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
It just means the offense.

Whatever God dislikes is sin.

KeptByTheWord 11-17-2015 09:45 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1404986)
I believe that is correct.

Thanks. I wanted to see if someone else had found anything different.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1404986)
Sin is transgression of the law. Therefore whatever is a transgression of the law of God is sin. Dishonouring your parents is sin. Stealing is sin. Adultery is sin. Why? Because those things are violations of the law of God (transgressions).

I thought it was interesting that sin is talked about all through the scriptures, but 1 John is the only place where sin is actually defined, and detailed. Jesus spoke about sin all the time, but He never defined it. I find that interesting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1404986)
But sin is defined Biblically as trangression of the law. The law defines and identifies sin:

Rom_7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Sin was in the world until Moses, but it was not imputed when there was no law. So... what happened to people before Moses who sinned?

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What does Paul mean by the sin was not imputed when there is no law? It seems that he is implying here that there was no law from Adam until Moses.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1404986)
As for 'the devil', the word devil means 'accuser'. It is a term that is taken from the concept of satan being one who accuses the people of God of their sins (see Job, etc). So the 'devil' is generally a NT term for 'satan', which is a Hebrew word for 'adversary' or 'enemy'. So then the 'devil' is the Adversary, that is, one who is opposed to God, his dominion (law), his grace, his divine Plan, etc. The devil 'sins from the beginning', that is, the enemy of God is in transgression, and is from the beginning. One who sins, ie one who transgresses God's law, is 'of the devil', much as Christ said to the Pharisees 'You are of your father the devil'. Being a 'child of' someone is a Hebrew figure of speech (a Hebraism) meaning one is partaking of the characteristic of someone, as if they were biologically descended from that someone. So the sinner is one who follows in the devil's footsteps, and bears the likeness of the devil - the enemy or opposer of God.

Thus, sin is the opposing of God and His ways, which are revealed in the law as explained and understood by the gospel.

Yes, I agree with this.

KeptByTheWord 11-17-2015 09:49 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1404992)
Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

That's a large commandment, isn't it!

So, we know that we are not to speed, and yet I imagine we have all done that at some point... is that sin? How serious does God consider the sin of speeding (breaking the law of the land)?

KeptByTheWord 11-17-2015 09:55 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta (Post 1404963)
All unrighteousness is sin. Sometimes sin is called a trespass.

Yes, 1 John does indeed say that.
1 John 5:17-18 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepth himself and that wicked one toucheth him not"
As a disciple of Christ, can you say that you do not sin? Because John is saying all through this book that if you sin, you are not born of God, but are of the devil.

So is this definition of sin a willful sin, sin of omission, sin of commission... what sin(s) constitutes us as being of the devil? Speeding? White lies... or more deliberate acts of sin?

KeptByTheWord 11-17-2015 09:57 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scott Pitta (Post 1405012)
All unrighteousness is sin. I can even say that in Greek.

Later today, I will look up a decent definition of sin.

The ducks are calling my name.

Happy hunting! Do you have snow there yet? We got our first large snowfall today, and it is beautiful!

I will look forward to your comments when you get back :)

KeptByTheWord 11-17-2015 10:00 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Monterrey (Post 1405023)
It just means the offense.

Whatever God dislikes is sin.

Do you sin?

1 John 3:9 "Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin: for his seed remaineth in him; and he cannot sin because he is born of God."

This is a serious question actually. If we really are born of God, and we speed on our way to church, is that sin? Or if we let someone think that we did something, and we didn't do it, and we don't correct their understanding (a white lie of sorts) is that sin?

How serious should we as disciples of Christ be when it comes to considering what sin might look like in our lives?

If we are truly born of God, as John says... then we should not be sinning.

So we need to know exactly what "sin" is.

Godsdrummer 11-17-2015 11:31 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1405075)
That's a large commandment, isn't it!

So, we know that we are not to speed, and yet I imagine we have all done that at some point... is that sin? How serious does God consider the sin of speeding (breaking the law of the land)?

Not trying to make excuses, but when this passage was first brought to my attention when in high school, the implication was made just the way you seem to think in your reply.

Not the passage does not say, he that knows to do right to him it is sin. It says "good". I feel this goes to the greatest commandment, love God and your neighbor as yourself.

It is my personal feeling that we make too many things out to be sin, based on an implication. Paul deals with this issue I believe very well in Romans 14. Take for instance driving over the speed limit. We know we all do it at times, just because law dictates a speed limit does not make it a sin just because your driving down the road and happen to cross above the posted speed limit. But driving deliberately unsafely would in fact be wrong and it could be argued to be sin. Because now you are putting yourself and other in danger, thus NOT loving your neighbor as yourself.

Again in my opinion, those things we should be more concerned with are those things that fall under the command to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Thus one would not commit adultery because that is against your neighbor, basically all the things Paul list as works of the flesh are counted as things that are against your neighbor.

Bottom line Jesus said when we fulfill "loving God and our neighbor as our self we fulfill the whole Law". Paul give a good balance of this in Romans 14, if we can grasp the elements of his teaching in this passage, we can lay to rest what is sin and what is not. Many things that are sin to one person are not to the next, and this is a principle we seem to forget.

Esaias 11-17-2015 02:33 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1405073)
Thanks. I wanted to see if someone else had found anything different.




I thought it was interesting that sin is talked about all through the scriptures, but 1 John is the only place where sin is actually defined, and detailed. Jesus spoke about sin all the time, but He never defined it. I find that interesting.

Everyone understood that 'sin' meant transgression against God's law. It would be like if we talk about 'crime', would we need to always be saying 'now crime is the violation of the law'? We would have learned that as children.

Quote:

Sin was in the world until Moses, but it was not imputed when there was no law. So... what happened to people before Moses who sinned?

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

What does Paul mean by the sin was not imputed when there is no law? It seems that he is implying here that there was no law from Adam until Moses.

He does not say there was no law. In fact he specifically says those before Moses 'sinned'. Thus, there HAD to be law before Moses. Not the law COVENANT, but the laws of God. Consider this about Abraham:

Gen_26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

Abraham knew and kept God's commandments, statutes, and laws.

KeptByTheWord 11-17-2015 05:53 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1405090)
Not trying to make excuses, but when this passage was first brought to my attention when in high school, the implication was made just the way you seem to think in your reply.

Not the passage does not say, he that knows to do right to him it is sin. It says "good". I feel this goes to the greatest commandment, love God and your neighbor as yourself.

It is my personal feeling that we make too many things out to be sin, based on an implication. Paul deals with this issue I believe very well in Romans 14. Take for instance driving over the speed limit. We know we all do it at times, just because law dictates a speed limit does not make it a sin just because your driving down the road and happen to cross above the posted speed limit. But driving deliberately unsafely would in fact be wrong and it could be argued to be sin. Because now you are putting yourself and other in danger, thus NOT loving your neighbor as yourself.

Again in my opinion, those things we should be more concerned with are those things that fall under the command to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Thus one would not commit adultery because that is against your neighbor, basically all the things Paul list as works of the flesh are counted as things that are against your neighbor.

Bottom line Jesus said when we fulfill "loving God and our neighbor as our self we fulfill the whole Law". Paul give a good balance of this in Romans 14, if we can grasp the elements of his teaching in this passage, we can lay to rest what is sin and what is not. Many things that are sin to one person are not to the next, and this is a principle we seem to forget.

Very good... I was just trying to foster the discussion, and I see it as you do, although there are those who don't. Paul definitely taught that there can be a difference in what sin means from person to person, and one cannot make a universal law of sin based on a personal conviction.

I think where people get confused is labeling a personal conviction as "sin" in their lives, and then wanting to apply it to everyone else as a sin as well. This is where the "sin" thing can get complicated.

Just a silly example - if it is "sin" (or personal conviction) for me to wear red that is fine, but if I start preaching that everyone who wears the color red is sinning... then, that is where the waters get muddied. I'm sure we have all seen this happen, (I personally have known those who have preached against the color red, it being a sin to wear it, laying their personal conviction on their congregation and ).

We must be careful in what we label sin.... is it a universal sin that if all commit it have sinned, or is it a personal conviction that we have labeled sin in our own lives but may not be sin in another's life.

Godsdrummer 11-17-2015 08:00 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
As has become my practice in the last 5 years, I looked up a passage in the NT and OT with the word "sin" to check the definition. Now I don't know I others will see this from my perspective, many don't. But the word sin in Greek means offense.
In Hebrew there are at least three words translated sin, that I have found on a quick look. They mean, to miss, guiltiness, and offense.
The thing is I think we make more of the word sin based on our way of thinking.

Godsdrummer 11-17-2015 08:13 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
This chapter was driven home to me a few years ago while I did a in depth study on the chapter. During my first position as an ass. pastor, the pastor brought my attention to the last verse.

Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
He was very conservative at the time, but also a deep thinker. I don't know if he has followed much the same path as I have, but I imagine he must have to some degree.

What many dislike is Paul's opening statement "the weak brother or sister needs more rules to keep themselves right with God".

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

Note the one that is weak is the one that is likely to be judgmental. Yet the one that is strong in faith, is more likely to despise the weak Christian. And do we not see this in churches today?

mfblume 11-17-2015 10:20 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1405168)
This chapter was driven home to me a few years ago while I did a in depth study on the chapter. During my first position as an ass. pastor, the pastor brought my attention to the last verse.

I think you better find the correct abbreviation for assistant.

:heeheehee

Aquila 11-20-2015 07:17 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
God is love. Anything contrary to the very nature of God, love, is sin.

shazeep 11-28-2015 10:53 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquila (Post 1405638)
God is love. Anything contrary to the very nature of God, love, is sin.

Are all Muslims "lost," Aquila?

Godsdrummer 11-29-2015 08:45 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1407289)
Are all Muslims "lost," Aquila?

Maybe a better question would be, "are all Christians lost except those that have exclusively followed Acts 2:38"?

Which brings us full circle to the question, what does it mean to be saved? Jesus said "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". What does that mean have everlasting life? Or shall not perish? Perish from what? Everlasting life, when?

Luke wrote "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", saved from what?

John proclaimed when he saw Jesus come to be baptized, "behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world" did Christ take away the sin of the world and when?

Sean 11-29-2015 08:56 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1407507)
Maybe a better question would be, "are all Christians lost except those that have exclusively followed Acts 2:38"?

Which brings us full circle to the question, what does it mean to be saved? Jesus said "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". What does that mean have everlasting life? Or shall not perish? Perish from what? Everlasting life, when?

Luke wrote "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", saved from what?

John proclaimed when he saw Jesus come to be baptized, "behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world" did Christ take away the sin of the world and when?



Oh, there is no more sin in the world?



Cool.:heeheehee

KeptByTheWord 07-28-2016 10:18 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Opening this discussion back up again...

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Sin in this scripture is identified as "transgression of the law".

2 questions:

1. Is the Apostle John referring to Torah law in this passage, or is it a broader form of lawlessness not necessarily referring to Torah?

anomia: lawlessness
Original Word: ἀνομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anomia
Phonetic Spelling: (an-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity
Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin.

http://biblehub.com/greek/458.htm

2. Is there a case to be made that John was implying that not keeping all of Torah law was sin?

votivesoul 07-28-2016 11:45 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1442004)
Opening this discussion back up again...

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Sin in this scripture is identified as "transgression of the law".

2 questions:

1. Is the Apostle John referring to Torah law in this passage, or is it a broader form of lawlessness not necessarily referring to Torah?

anomia: lawlessness
Original Word: ἀνομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anomia
Phonetic Spelling: (an-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity
Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin.

http://biblehub.com/greek/458.htm

2. Is there a case to be made that John was implying that not keeping all of Torah law was sin?

I do not personally think John is referring to the laws and edicts of the Old Covenant.

Rather, I think he is referring to the "law which was from the beginning", regarding to the love of God/Christ, and for each other. To me then, the transgression of the law that is sin is the violation of, and offense against "Love God with your soul, strength, and might" and "love your neighbor as yourself".

Otherwise, all the overlooked minutiae of the Old Covenant would condemn us all as children of the devil.

votivesoul 07-28-2016 11:49 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by votivesoul (Post 1442010)
I do not personally think John is referring to the laws and edicts of the Old Covenant.

Rather, I think he is referring to the "law which was from the beginning", regarding to the love of God/Christ, and for each other. To me then, the transgression of the law that is sin is the violation of, and offense against "Love God with your soul, strength, and might" and "love your neighbor as yourself".

Otherwise, all the overlooked minutiae of the Old Covenant would condemn us all as children of the devil.

Now, that being said, loving God and one's neighbor, certainly is Torah. But Torah really shouldn't be translated as "law"; rather, it should be understood as instruction or teaching (which of course is, or can be binding, hence why some think of the word as "law").

And since all the Torah and prophets hang on the first two commandments, the New Covenant Torah is much easier to bear.

Esaias 07-29-2016 12:12 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1442004)
Opening this discussion back up again...

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Sin in this scripture is identified as "transgression of the law".

2 questions:

1. Is the Apostle John referring to Torah law in this passage, or is it a broader form of lawlessness not necessarily referring to Torah?

anomia: lawlessness
Original Word: ἀνομία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: anomia
Phonetic Spelling: (an-om-ee'-ah)
Short Definition: lawlessness, iniquity
Definition: lawlessness, iniquity, disobedience, sin.

http://biblehub.com/greek/458.htm

2. Is there a case to be made that John was implying that not keeping all of Torah law was sin?

1. If John was not referring to the commandments of God, then nobody would be able to know if they were sinning. If God Himself is not the only decider of what is sin, then who else is? When sin is "transgression of the law" then sin = crime. So then, can anything be a crime that is not defined by law? If that were possible, then crime becomes an arbitrary thing and the people would have no way to know what was illegal and what was legal.

Therefore, sin is the transgression of the law, and cannot be anything but transgression of the law. Think about it: How can something be a sin that is not a violation of God's commandments to man? How can something be sinful unless it is contrary to the will of God? And how can the will of God be known unless it is revealed? And how is the will of God revealed to mankind, if not by His Word?

Note: God may reveal His personal will TO YOU, consisting of His will FOR you personally. To violate that would of course be sin, although you could never convict someone ELSE of it as sin since it was a command given specifically to YOU (which command, by the way, would not be in violation of His Word). But that becomes sin under the law that "thou shalt serve the LORD thy God". One cannot serve a king by disobeying his specific instructions to you, for example.

2. Not keeping the commandments of God is of course sin. But one must rightly understand what commandments pertain to what classes of people and under what conditions. Jesus interpreted the Law perfectly and we are followers of Him (as disciples). We therefore follow His "interpretation and application of Torah".

Aquila 07-29-2016 07:07 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1404971)
1John3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

I look at it this way....

Sin is the transgression of the law.

And Jesus teaches us that the spirit and intent of the entire law hangs on two commandments:
Matthew 22:37-40
King James Version (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Based on Christ's own words the entire law is summed up in two commandments, with the second being "like unto" the first:
1.) Love God with all your being.
2.) Show God you love Him by loving others as yourself.
That's basically it. Over and done. No dietary regulations, legalistic dress codes, special feast days, Sabbaths, funny hats, religious taxes - no religion.

Love. Love alone fulfills the entire moral law of God. Think about it....
1.) If you love God, you won't want any other God.
2.) If you love God, you won't bow to idols.
3.) If you love God, you won't speak irreverently of His name.
4.) If you love God, you will set aside time to worship every day (not just one in 7).
5.) If you love your neighbor, as a child, you'll start with loving your parents.
6.) If you love neighbor, you won't kill them or slander them.
7.) If you love neighbor, you won't take his wife; if you love your wife, you won't take a mistress.
8.) If you love your neighbor, you won't still from him.
9.) If you love your neighbor, you won't lie about him.
10) If you love your neighbor, you won't be jealous of what he has or his success.
Notice, simply loving God and your neighbor fulfills the entire moral Law of God in one fell swoop. This what Paul meant when Paul wrote the following:
Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Notice, Paul specifically begins to bring up the Ten Commandments, but he cares not to even finish them. He simply states, "and if there be any other commandment", it is summed up by this saying, "Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." That's all inclusive! That leaves no exceptions. EVERY possible commandment of God is fulfilled if you simply.... LOVE your neighbor as yourself.

Paul reiterated this to the Galatians. Paul wrote:
Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Again, notice, how much of the Law is fulfilled (according to Paul) when we love our neighbour.... "all the law". Not one jot or tittle is left unfulfilled if you simply love others as yourself.

Many make a big deal out of the Ten Commandments. However, the Ten Commandments (the Law of God), as righteous as it is, is only a pathetic basement level of righteousness. It is really a joke that is easily fulfilled in your sleep if you think about it. But, LOVE demands infinitely more than the Ten Commandments. Love demands that you:
Feed the hungry
Clothe the naked
Visit the prisoner
Provide for the widow
Provide for the orphan
Provide for the stranger
Comfort the grieving
Free the oppressed
Encourage the discouraged
Heal the broken
Mend the broken hearted
.... and the list could go on and on.

Consider this. Let's say that you were running late for home after work and the wife was making dinner and expected you there.... and you saw a stranded motorist on the side of the darkened highway. If you chose to look the other way and drive right on by.... did you break any of the Ten Commandments? Nope. You're still a holy little legalist. However, the Law of Love demands that you love your neighbor.... even if he's a stranded motorist at the most inconvenient time. Love would demand that you stop to check on him to see if he has a phone, if someone is on the way, or if there's something you can help with. If you refuse the call of love (which is the very essence of the law, and fulfills the whole law).... you've sinned! If you pass that man by under the Law of Love you've failed to love another in need and you've sinned buddy. The Law of Love demands infinitely more than the Ten Commandments ever could. If you go to a family reunion and have bad attitude and bring everyone down.... is that loving? Nope. You've sinned. If the guy next to you in line is .47 cents short for his coffee and doughnut.... and you know you have two quarters to spare.... and you don't say a word.... you've failed to love. You've sinned.

Love is the highest ethic, the most expansive law, the greatest obligation.

Also, think about this....

God is love. That means that while God is spirit as it relates to His substance, He is love as it relates to His essence. He is, love itself. So.... when we are the most loving (forgiving, compassionate, patient, tolerant, accepting, welcoming, caring, giving, kind, etc.).... we are most like Him. Thus, it is when we are loving that we are the most.... holy.

A life of holiness is.... a Spirit filled life filled with.... love.

It's that simple.... but that infinite in its application.

Many argue that James teaches us that "faith without works is dead". But take a close look at what James really tells us....
James 2:14-18 (KJV)
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Wow. That almost makes me cry every time I read it. Notice James asks if faith can save a man, without works. However, also notice the kind of works James refers to.... clothing the naked & feeding the hungry. These are not "works of the law".... these are "works of love". I had to stop because I became overwhelmed right here. Faith without works of love and compassion is.... DEAD. If you're not caring for others.... if you're not loving your neighbor.... YOUR FAITH IS DEAD! It's no good. It's worthless religion. It's just religions banter, chatter, and biases. Without works of love and compassion towards others.... your works are meaningless.... no matter how long your hair or your sleeves are.

James whole point was stated briefly in verse 8 of the same chapter....
James 2:8 (KJV)
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Here the Law of Love/Law of Christ is referred to as the, "Royal Law". This is what James was trying to explain.

Folks, this is what it is all about. Loving others. We don't prove to God that we love Him by wearing tin foil hats, eating Jelly beans on Thursdays, only going to Church on Tuesdays, adoring ourselves in purple jump suits, celebrating the 12 days of Christmas backwards, only putting up Chanukah bushes, lighting the Menorah with an extra candle glued to the side (just in case the Jews forgot one), only wearing our shirts inside out, avoiding all comic book stores, only using bright red carriages for transportation, speaking the King James English when in the grocery store, teaching our kids to be discreet when they pick their noses, .... etc..... etc..

Nope. God doesn't give a flippin'-flop about any of those silly religious things we like to brag about. God cares about.... PEOPLE. Who did Jesus die for? PEOPLE. God cares about PEOPLE. God cares about how you treat other PEOPLE. God is a "PEOPLE God". PEOPLE are made in His image. These are PEOPLE He died for and wants a relationship with. When you love other PEOPLE.... you're showing God how much you love Him. You're demonstrating your love for Him. Do you see Jesus in others? Think about it.... God sees Jesus in you.... so you can see Jesus in others by faith and love them into the Kingdom. It's about PEOPLE. Loving other PEOPLE.

It's all about love. That's it. How silly we must seem to God (Love). How full of self and ego must we seem to be when we walk around beating each other up over all our silly lists of standards, with our chests all puffed out (and there's plenty of beating up going on because every list is different). Here we are throwing stones over our self-righteous, man-made, little lists of standards.... and God is simply wanting us to love one another.... and to take that love into a lost and dying world.

So.... back to the original post.
What is SIN?
Sin is the failure to love.

thephnxman 07-29-2016 02:52 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer (Post 1407507)
Maybe a better question would be, "are all Christians lost except those that have exclusively followed Acts 2:38"?
Which brings us full circle to the question, what does it mean to be saved? Jesus said "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life". What does that mean have everlasting life? Or shall not perish? Perish from what? Everlasting life, when?
Luke wrote "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved", saved from what?
John proclaimed when he saw Jesus come to be baptized, "behold the lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world" did Christ take away the sin of the world and when?

" Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge?"

KeptByTheWord 08-02-2016 09:34 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Thanks to everyone for your input... it is quite obvious with multiple scriptural references that in the New Covenant the Torah law is fulfilled when we love others as we love ourselves.

James 2:8 (KJV)
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:

Matthew 22:37-40
King James Version (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


... and as Aquila put it so well and quite simply... sin is the failure to love. That is awesome Aquila, thank you.

This question came up in our weekly fellowship meeting, and some who come are also studying the Hebrew Roots movement, which is similar to the Messianic movement, but a little more "relaxed" or rigid in how they believe the law should be applied.

I suspect that perhaps this scripture I mentioned in 1 John 3:4 is being used to make people who don't know and study the Word, believe that if Torah law is not kept, they are sinning.

Esaias 08-02-2016 03:28 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Saying the law if fulfilled when we love does not mean one can love and yet not actually do what is commanded.

It should also be remembered that "love thy neighbor" is part of the law to begin with, Lev 19:18. There is no disjunction between "love" and the law of God.

Sin is the transgression of the law, always was and always will be.

Esaias 08-02-2016 03:39 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1442394)
Thanks to everyone for your input... it is quite obvious with multiple scriptural references that in the New Covenant the Torah law is fulfilled when we love others as we love ourselves.

James 2:8 (KJV)
If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself, ye do well:

Matthew 22:37-40
King James Version (KJV)
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Galatians 5:14
For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.


... and as Aquila put it so well and quite simply... sin is the failure to love. That is awesome Aquila, thank you.

This question came up in our weekly fellowship meeting, and some who come are also studying the Hebrew Roots movement, which is similar to the Messianic movement, but a little more "relaxed" or rigid in how they believe the law should be applied.

I suspect that perhaps this scripture I mentioned in 1 John 3:4 is being used to make people who don't know and study the Word, believe that if Torah law is not kept, they are sinning.

Also, a lot of HR/Messianics use "Torah" in the same sense Jews do, meaning Talmud and rabbinic traditions of the Pharisees. When anyone starts throwing the word "Torah" around I ask them to define it specifically: do they mean WRITTEN Law of God, Tanakh (Scripture), or Mishna/Gemara/Halachah (oral tradition, rabbinic commentary, and rabbinic rules)?

shazeep 08-03-2016 06:17 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord (Post 1442394)
I suspect that perhaps this scripture I mentioned in 1 John 3:4 is being used to make people who don't know and study the Word, believe that if Torah law is not kept, they are sinning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1442418)
Saying the law if fulfilled when we love does not mean one can love and yet not actually do what is commanded.

It should also be remembered that "love thy neighbor" is part of the law to begin with, Lev 19:18. There is no disjunction between "love" and the law of God.

Sin is the transgression of the law, always was and always will be.

Christ broke the Law, intentionally. Didn't He? :)

Esaias 08-03-2016 09:33 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1442501)
Christ broke the Law, intentionally. Didn't He? :)

Nope. But then again, depends on your definition of "law". Broke halachah? Yes, repeatedly. Broke the written Torah? Never.

shazeep 08-03-2016 09:46 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
ok, i think we might be splitting hairs a little, but i agree. Nonetheless, He knew that His statement to the council would be interpreted as blasphemy, and an argument can be made that He intentionally disregarded a law that was punishable by death, and that even the citizens of the day would have stoned Him for it, and would not have been punished, on the testimony of witnesses. Civil punishment denotes civil crime, iow. Christ was crucified because He broke the law, technically speaking.

Esaias 08-03-2016 11:34 AM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1442532)
ok, i think we might be splitting hairs a little, but i agree. Nonetheless, He knew that His statement to the council would be interpreted as blasphemy, and an argument can be made that He intentionally disregarded a law that was punishable by death, and that even the citizens of the day would have stoned Him for it, and would not have been punished, on the testimony of witnesses. Civil punishment denotes civil crime, iow. Christ was crucified because He broke the law, technically speaking.

Please demonstrate his sin and appropriate punishment.

Aquila 08-03-2016 12:58 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1442418)
Saying the law if fulfilled when we love does not mean one can love and yet not actually do what is commanded.

It should also be remembered that "love thy neighbor" is part of the law to begin with, Lev 19:18. There is no disjunction between "love" and the law of God.

Sin is the transgression of the law, always was and always will be.

It entirely depends upon how one views the Law. For example, one view is that in simply loving one's neighbor (easier said than done) one fulfills the very spirit and intent of the entire law. However, if others see the Law as a series of specific eternal commandments, then would have to argue that in order to properly love, one must fulfill those specific commandments.

I like to test theories and interpretations by pushing them to the point of applicability. I call it, "applied theology". Let's "apply" the point you're making. Can you present a law that wouldn't be fulfilled by one simply loving one's neighbor as themselves? Should such a commandment be presented we have to determine its nature by asking, "Is it moral, civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical (relating to the priesthood)?" The answer to this question will clearly cancel out a significant number of civil, ceremonial, and Levitical laws that only serve as types and shadows or perhaps are only relating to the cultural context of the ancient Hebrew nation.

So, let's ask.... What law wouldn't be fulfilled by one simply loving one's neighbor as themselves?

I trust that the Apostle Paul's statement will prove to be true every time:
Romans 13:8-10 (KJV)
8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.
9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

shazeep 08-03-2016 02:33 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Esaias (Post 1442553)
Please demonstrate his sin and appropriate punishment.

that is just changing the frame; of course i cannot. But then i am not trying to, either. Christ broke the law in other instances, too; it was no doubt illegal to accost merchants in the temple as well. Legality does not equal morality is the point. An examination of 'what is sin' has to contemplate that there are circumstances in which it is not a sin to break the law iow.

Esaias 08-03-2016 08:17 PM

Re: What is SIN?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shazeep (Post 1442575)
that is just changing the frame; of course i cannot. But then i am not trying to, either. Christ broke the law in other instances, too; it was no doubt illegal to accost merchants in the temple as well. Legality does not equal morality is the point. An examination of 'what is sin' has to contemplate that there are circumstances in which it is not a sin to break the law iow.

Changing the frame? You said Christ broke the law. I am asking you to demonstrate that he broke the law, and to show what the appropriate punishment for his breaking the law (sin) was.

Can you do that?


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