God vs the Constitution
 

Which would you prefer - America operating under the law of God as written in the Holy Bible? Or America operating under the Constitution?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Absence the physical presence of Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God, I prefer the U.S. Constitution.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

So then you do NOT want everyone in the nation to live by the Bible. Ok, got it.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Whose interpretation do you prescribe we live by?

Can I keep my polyester bowtie?

Will our government be run with tithes or freewill offerings?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Will animals have rights?

Will the Bible allow for the existence of PETA?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

well, 50% of respondents to your poll chose "something else!" :lol

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Will married couples have the freedom to create designer babies?

Will children be able to learn about the Crusades?

Will children be able to learn about the dinosaurs?

Will Coca Cola be banned?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Whose interpretation of the Constitution do you prescribe we live by?

Cloth necklaces for men? Surely you jest.

Either way it would be smaller and not in debt, eh?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

I'm having some revelation come in... In fact a word of knowledge coming on right now... 'Thou hast not studied this issue and speakest facetiously.'

Carry on!

:thumbsup

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Will we stone the homosexuals?

What did Jesus say we should do with the hermaphrodites?

What about the midgets?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

What, no midget wrestling? Wait, is that a Constitutional right?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

that's why i picked "other!" :lol

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

In your utopia, would there be a counsel of judges to interpret real-life situations in light of the scriptures? Or will Jesus Christ be there?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Will we have the right to practice freewill in Esaiasland?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

How does following the Bible equate to 'my utopia' and 'Esaiasland'?

I get the picture, you don't want the nation to follow the Bible. Such an idea is laughable to you, deserving of mockery I guess.

No midget wrestling for you, then.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

http://theblacksphere.net/wp-content...-wrestling.jpg

That's me giving Jermyn the what-for, gonna re-educate him soon enough.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

"Utopia" is a better word than "dystopia".

"Esaiasland" is a reference to what appears to be your desire for a Bible based government, based off of your responses so far.

Please answer the question. Will Jesus Christ physically be there?



In this Bible based utopia, which Bible will for the basis of the governmental laws and policies? What will you do about the real-life situations that are not even remotely addressed by the Bible?


They don't have to wrestle, but will you let them marry the giants from other countries?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

This. Looks. Painful! :)

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Would Jesus really want to live in an America operating under the law of God as written in the Holy Bible?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Hmm, let's actually deal with this as if it were a genuinely serious question.

Let's look at some facts:

1. Christ is the one who gave the law of God.

2. Christ obeyed the law of God PERFECTLY while on earth.

3. All those destined for glory are predestinated to be conformed to His image (likeness).

I'd say... mmmm.....errrrr....welllll..... let me just say it's highly probable that Christ would prefer to live in a nation that was obedient to the law He Himself gave and exemplified, as opposed to living in a nation that was obedient to some other man made law.

Maybe? Maybe just a slight possibility?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Theonomy with your tea?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

I can do without the tea, to be honest.

:thumbsup

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

You are a theonomist, correct? They are rare to come by.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Here's a simple question for the readers to consider:

Who is smarter about how society should operate: God? Or man?

I mean, which Law is better, God's? Or man's?

Would YOU prefer to be under God's Law? Or man's?

Do you pray 'THY Kingdom come, THY will be done, on earth, as it is in Heaven'? Or 'Our Kingdom come, our will be done on earth as it is in our collective minds and imaginations'?

Who you gonna serve?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

I am a Christian. I honestly don't see how one can be a Christian and NOT prefer God's government to man's. God's Word is Divine. The Constitution of the US, the Magna Charta, the Charter of the UN, or any other man-made system of legislation is not. Case closed, as far as I am concerned.

:thumbsup

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

I am fine with the constitution. Goverments are ordained by God. :)

I don't see theonomy jiving with the NT model of the church.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Eph_3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

That is theonomy and the church's relation to it right there.

One of the primary purposes of the ekklesia of God (a governmental term, by he way - ekklesia) is to teach the 'powers' (exousias, the AUTHORITIES in 'heavenly places') the manifold wisdom of God. The wisdom of God is known via His Word.

In other words, the church of God is responsible for teaching the Will of God to the powers that be. Why? So they can fulfill this:

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

The purpose of civil government is to enforce the law of God in the punishment of evil.

Jesus said this:

Mat 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Mat 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The Great Commission, the Mandate of the Church, is to teach ALL NATIONS that Jesus Christ has been given ALL authority both in heaven AND IN EARTH, and that ALL NATIONS are to begin obeying all of His Commandments.

What some call 'theonomy' is what is more generally known as 'the gospel'. See this:

Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Good news of what? Good news of the KINGDOM. A Kingdom is nothing less than a bona fide GOVERNMENT. What Government does not have a law? All government has law, otherwise it is no government. A kingdom is a government (and a law) headed by a king.

Jesus Christ is a king. A genuine king, just as surely as the old woman in London is a queen, even more so. He is the King of Israel, Son of David, indeed Son of GOD, indeed GOD HIMSELF, and thus King of the Universe.

To become a Christian is to submit to His claims and His authority, to become a CITIZEN of His Kingdom. EVERY citizen is bound by obligation to be loyal to the LAW and GOVERNMENT of their kingdom/nation. Thus, all Christians are expected to be loyal to the Law and Government of God's Kingdom.

So then for a Christian to suggest that God's Law as revealed in the Holy Bible, as understood an interpreted by Jesus Christ and His apostles, is somehow inferior or is something to be avoided or rejected, is nothing less than treason, is it not? Yes, for treason is adhering to the ENEMIES of one's nation, and God has declared that all the nations of the world are under sin (criminal tresspass and rebellion) and that makes them ENEMIES.

Jas_4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

i would pick "Holy Spirit" over Bible, per se, as the latter kind of assumes an intermediary interpreter.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

as a reformed anarchist now liberatarian... (I know you are all giggling now)

I would prefer that all people everywhere obey the law of God.

If we were to do so, there would be no need for government at all. period.

However, since we do not live in a world where all men love, serve and obey God, gimme the constitution.... with an amendment that says the 10th amendment is really really serious and congressional violations of it will result in any congressman voting for the violation be kicked out of congress and incarcerated in ANWR.... in an open air prison in their underwear.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Legislated faith breeds hypocrisy, fear, and insincerity. The clergy become accountable to no one and the commoners are religious out of civil duty rather than a love for God. It doesn't work. Let people chose God if they so desire, then their faith and devotion to God is sincere.

America is not nor was it intended to be a "Christian Nation" and for that I'm grateful. It was intended to be a religiously free nation.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

We agree on this!

A perfect example of this is Europe.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

:thumbsup

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

I have a difficult time believing that God is pleased when unsaved people obey the "law."

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

especially when the law is against the Commandments, i have to agree.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

The Law is for ancient Israel. Not the church. We should follow the Constitution.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

wrong, on several levels, imo.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

It's interesting how those who oppose the dominion of God have no scripture to stand on. They stand upon humanistic arguments, like the following:

1. You cannot legislate faith. The problem is, nobody argues that faith is to be legislated! The state was not ordained by God to create faith in Jesus Christ as the Messiah. But those who argue against the dominion of God seem to forget that under their humanistic, God denying government, faith is actively legislated against. This is what we see happening now. Slowly but surely, the faith of Jesus Christ is being attacked by government, and will continue until it is practically outlawed. The purest example of government without God is communism. And under communism, Biblical Christianity is for all practical purposes outlawed. That is where we are headed.

2. They also say you cannot legislate morality. But all law is legislated morality! Morals concern what a person ought to do or ought not to do. Law is nothing else than somebody's morals, because law dictates what a person ought or ought not to do. The question is not whether or not morals will be legislated, it is a question of whose morals will be legislated - God's? Or man's?

3. Another objection is 'whenever the church gets in charge it creates persecution'. Satan is already in charge, and those who live righteously will be persecuted, so how could a godly, Christ-honouring government be worse than an ungodly, God-denying government? Besides, the role of the church is not to run the government. The role of the church is to inform the authorities of the manifold wisdom of God. Just as the church is not appointed to run your personal family life, but it is appointed to inform you of God's will concerning your family. Your family is then accountable to God to follow the Bible. The same is true of government.

All these objections are straw men. They do not apply. All these objections reveal something about the objector - namely, they do not want, and would not prefer, to have God in control. They deny that Jesus has indeed been given ALL authority in heaven AND IN EARTH. They deny that ALL men, including governors and rulers and magistrates and legislators, are bound by an obligation to obey God in all things.

It's called 'lawlessness'. One day all nations shall be submitted to God's government (kingdom). All those who refuse that Christ should rule over them will be destroyed. I suspect many professing Christians are not ready to meet God, because for them God is just really a fairy tale meant to comfort them in the middle of the night. They have no intention of actually obeying Christ and promoting HIS interests in all things, all areas of life. I mean, if you wouldn't want Christ to actively reign NOW, what makes you think you will somehow be pleased and eternally happy when He reigns 'then'?

Guess what? Christ reigns now, whether anyone likes it or not. We better get used to it.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Jesus will come and establish His Kingdom. For now, it is established in the Church. I am in the Church so He is reigning in my life. When he comes and reigns physically on the earth, it will be with His Church.

I believe that separation of Church and state is the best means for government in this age.

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Do you have any scripture for these claims? Especially that last part?

BTW, nobody has proposed that 'church and state' be 'joined together'. Also, you do realise that even the Constitution does not provide for 'separation of church and state'?

Re: God vs the Constitution
 

Also, if Jesus is reigning in your life, then wouldn't that mean you agree that he now has ALL authority, both in heaven and IN EARTH? Wouldn't that mean you agree that all nations are required to submit to his authority? That all men are to repent - including Presidents, governors, judges, etc?

Or do you still believe that getting a government job makes a person free from obedience to God?