Women Cutting Their Hair, Please Help.
 

Ok, so basically I am UPC and have been all of my life. And as much as I want to believe what I have been taught it is very hard for me to get that a woman's hair should be uncut based on 1 Corinthians 11.

Can anyone help me reconcile myself with the UPC doctrine?

:nod

No... :D

If you want to believe it, then why is it so hard? it's in there, isn't it?

Just shutup and obey. You don't want to be a witch do you?

Questioning is rebellion. Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft.

Don't listen to those goofy libs who point out that Paul was dealing with a specific cultural issue of his day and that this whole thing was an example of how a local church / pastor is to handle things rather than an absolute injunction for women throughout the ages not to cut their hair.

Next I guess you will be starting a thread claiming that the Bible does not teach against makeup, pants, or jewelry.:haloplug

Really, my church is UPC. My wife does not cut her hair. However, I can read and study the bible and I don't get uncut out of it.

Now if you take the stance that this is not cultural and that it applies to christians of today the only thing I get is that longer hair might possibly be more please and respectful towards the husband. Am I reading this wrong?

I didn't see your question. Where is it and what was it?

Delta, you got it on track. The fact is that the scripture in Corinthians is not talking about cutting hair. It is talking about submission to authority. I started out having the same question you have now. My wife does not cut, burn or color either. But I have told her that the truth is that the verses that the UPC controlers have taught that it is wrong but at a closer look the scripture is taken out of context.

Well, I have no problem following the standards of the UPC even if I know they are sometimes wrong because I want unity in our church. Also, I have no problem trusting those who are older and have more wisdom than me. But it amazes me that people I know who have been to Bible College can't even agree that this passage of scripture might at least be debatable.

He, Berk, deltaguitar is a he.

Oh, I didn't see that.

Easy. Been there, done that, got the T Shirt. Ain't going back.:lol

Actually I was raised in a very conservative UPC church in Alaska with a great pastor.

I was an inner lib all along as at an early age I noticed the many inconsistencies in old time Pentecostal thinking when it came to so called "standards".

I will elaborate later on another thread.

And another starts the ride down the slippery slope. Welcome to da club, Bro. :)

You can follow the dress code set forth, it is easier for a man to do so. But to say it is for the sake of unity that is different. There is sooooo many more thing essential to unity than the dress code. If you are doing it to obey the minister that is ok too. But unity has very little if anything to do with the dress code and cutting hair. The unity should be because of the Acts 2:38.

You will never find that there is verse that everyone agrees on. That is why are admonish to work out our own salvation with fear and trembling. Walk circumspectly before Him, not before man.

It's not uncut, it's just LONG. Let's not change the Word of God.

That's what I get out of it too.

Is it unity? Or conformity?

Galatians 10:6 - 10:“ I wonder, at how you so speedily move from the one who called to you in the grace of Christ, to another gospel…. those who upset you and meaning to turn about the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preaches to you the gospel different to how we preach it, let it be an anathema ….if anyone preaches to you differently than what was received by you, le it be an anathema”

Proverbs 30:5 - 6: “Every word of the Lord is tested….. Do not add to His words, in case He ever checks you and you are found to be a liar”


Deuteronomy 4: 2: “You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor shall you deduct from it, so that you might guard the commandments of the Lord your God, which I command you”

Deuteronomy 12:32: “Everything that I command you to do, make sure that you do it; you shall not add to it, nor remove anything from it”



Revelations 22 “…to the prophecy of this book if anyone adds anything, God shall add upon him afflictions…. And if anyone removes something from the book of this prophecy, God shall remove….. from the tree of life…”

Keep in mind that one man's short is another woman's long!:lol It then becomes relative and unable to be defined other than in a personally subjective manner. Therefore, there is no real expectation regarding hair and the writing of Paul is egregious and superfluous!:haloplug

What I want to know is if it is a shame for a man to have long hair, why did God command Samson not to cut his?

Agreed ... but to add to the word and state it should be UNCUT is dangerous ground to tread.

Without a doubt, adding to the Word of God is grievous error!

Bump! I'm serious folks. I don't want men to have long hair and I do believe it is a shame, but I don't get this and never have.

There are extremes both ways, for sure, and both are wrong. I think the line we have to draw cannot be made with a ruler. It is when something LOOKS masculine and no longer feminine that it is short. The spirit of a thing is the entire point. :)

Samson was a nazarite from what I understand. A jewish boy will have his head shaved at his Bar-mizvah when he turns 13. A Nazarite would not shave his head if he had a nazarite vow. The story of Samson was that he was not to have a razor to his head, not that he wasn't allowed to cut his hair with shears, there is a difference between allowing a razor to come to your hair, and allowing shears (or scissors) to come to your hair. I hope this helps. see Judges 13:5 It says razor, not shears according to the custom of the Jewish Nazarite vow.

You will not be able to reconcile yourself with this UPC doctrine, because that is not what it says.

It is sad for me to see some of the ladies that i grew up with that are elderly now.Becuse they never trimmed the dead ends off their hair ,it is unhealthy and some are loosing their hair.It makes no sense to me at all.

Some local Pentecostal ladies were eating lunch with my wife a while back.They told her it was wrong for her to cut her hair,but they could teach her how to break it off with a hot curling iron.

I am curious ,is this a common practice?

I'm sorry about the inconsistancy with this story. My wife doesn't use a hot curling iron. If the hair falls off then so be it. I'm sorry they did that with your wife, really I am.

:lol

I was not accusing anyones wife brother.I was just wondering if this is a common practice.These ladies were from two different churches in this area both UPC.

I just told the wife to ignore them.:club

It is funny in a way Berkley,but at the same time sad.:sshhh

It's as pitiful as Atlanta Bishop's son who encountered a UPCI girl at camp and showed him her baby she had out of wedlock ... while stating ... "At least I didn't cut my hair"

In the Old Testament both men and women could take a Nazirite vow.
Part of the vow was that they would not cut their hair for a specific period.
This could be as long as a lifetime in the case of Samson (Judges 13:5), Samuel ( 1 Sam. 1:11) and John the Baptist (Luke 1:15), but was (from what I have read) usually just for a month. This is found in Numbers chapter 6. Paul the Apostle practiced this at least once (Acts 18:18) and when he went to Jerusalem (Acts 21:20-27) he sponsored some Jewish brethren in their Nazirite vow by paying for the animal sacrifice for them. So under the Old Testament it was customary for both men and women to cut their hair but they could take a vow and not cut it for a while as an act of consecration.

The "shame for a man to have long hair" and the shaved head for a woman refers to a custom of cross dressing practiced by men and women at that time and in that area as part of heathen sex rituals of a religion practiced at that time.

History shows that Paul's writing on hair was sixty years after Pentecost.

What about the women that cut their hair before that?

I believe it was a struggle of traditions even then. The Jews wanted to make Gentiles get circumcised.

A site that addresses this and some other issues is:
http://www.actseighteen.com/

The hair issue is addressed in:
http://www.actseighteen.com/articles/uncuthair.htm

[QUOTE=Tech;154221]You will not be able to reconcile yourself with this UPC doctrine, because that is not what it says.

It is sad for me to see some of the ladies that i grew up with that are elderly now.Becuse they never trimmed the dead ends off their hair ,it is unhealthy and some are loosing their hair.It makes no sense to me at all.

Some local Pentecostal ladies were eating lunch with my wife a while back.They told her it was wrong for her to cut her hair,but they could teach her how to break it off with a hot curling iron.

I am curious ,is this a common practice?[/QUOTE]

It is for those who want to live by the letter of the law, but it's not in their hearts. I know several who have never "cut" their hair with scissors, but they have burned it, pulled it out, broken it off, etc. Those women are like the Pharisees who just obey enough to get by, or so they think.

I would bet God is just thinking, "IT'S JUST HAIR; What's the big deal?" But that's just my opinion. :lol