One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabuse.or
 

http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/baptism.html

Under the heading on the left hand side of the page, called "UPCI View", my article "In the Fight Over Water Baptism, the Missing Piece" is listed and given in a link.

It's actually kind of ironic. I am not UPCI, I'm not even traditionally Oneness the way the UPCI embraces it, and in the article I don't even make a single argument that ministers and members of the UPCI usually make when they discusses water baptism.

Maybe I should email them and ask them to remove it?

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

On the one hand I know an author wants as many people as possible to read their work but on the other hand it is being misrepresented here as a "UPC View". I think the right thing to do would be to at least advise them of the facts of the situation.

I believe the owner of that site used to post at AFF or its predecessor years ago and was a very principled person in her dealings here. I believe she would want to know if they have missed the mark on this.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I am not UPCI either

I noticed they have a bad link to the gospel of Matthew in my website.
www.apostolic-bible.com

They have a bunch of mine there, too! I'm not UPC.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Did you read what was written before all the links? I just did. It wouldn't appear there is any misrepresentation when one reads.

"Below are links to various writings on the subject, stating several perspectives. Included under the UPC view are writings from other groups which believe likewise, at least in part. Therefore all are not representative of their view."

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I never claimed there was misrepresentation. I just saw one poster here say he's not upc and I said I wasn't either.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

With that being the case, it is completely unfair to bunch together articles under the umbrella/banner of UPCI View, as if to say the UPCI upholds and agrees with all the expressed ideas in each article.

Just because some expressed belief is tangentially related to the official UPCI stance on immersion doesn't mean that it should be so listed.

In fact, whenever any group discusses or teaches on immersion, they likely all cross over into everyone else's ideas. It's kind of hard not to, considering immersion is all over the New Testament, and the themes surrounding immersion are universal and easy to recognize, as the Holy Scriptures make things pretty plain.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

What part of "all are not representative of their view" do you not understand?

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

It is a basic lie.
Nothing more.
If they want to include other writings, then put them under "other points of view".
With their wording the could include anything under there and people would believe it was representative of the UPCI.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

It's not a lie. They have a disclaimer.

However, if I were Votivesoul, I would contact an Administrator for that website, inform them of my displeasure with their use and representation of my work, and ask them to remove it from their site.

Being that they are Christians, they will probably comply with the request.

It's not like that site doesn't have a "WEALTH" of other resources to draw from in order to help the people they are trying to help.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

The disclaimer may (and I use that term loosely) indicate that not all articles under UPCI View agree with the UPCI View, 100%, but what it doesn't do is disclaim against the authors themselves.

I nowhere affirm the standard UPCI view of water baptism in the article. So while a reader may realize that the UPCI is not affliated with me, or stands in support of my article, the reader will not realize that I as the author, am not affliated with the UPCI, or that I don't stand in support of it as an organization.

But this isn't the really issue, for me.

My question is how did this article find it's way there? My blog is only ever shared here and on my Facebook page. My blog has a VERY small following.

I can only surmise that someone here belongs to that website, or brought my article to the website's attention, which leads me to think AFF is being monitored/mined for information in order to be used against the UPCI, which is the main target of the website.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

So, if I had a website about how terrible the Democratic Party was and said "included under the Democratic view are writings from other groups which believe likewise, at least in part. Therefore all are not representative of their view."

And I put under it writings from Communists, Facists and Socialists, that would be ok?
No, it would be a lie.
Especially since those who wrote did not identify themselves as Democrats.
To be fair, I should only put Democratic writings under that. Then create other fields for other groups.

I agree. The fact that others apart from UPC believe this teaching supports the idea the UPC is not to be criticized for that belief as a UPC belief.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I am not surprised..
That bunch is known for being the bottom feeders of all dirt and misleading gossip.


.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I have a Bible study that is also on Lois's site. Under the Oneness vs Trinity links is Behold His Glory a Bible study I made when I first came on the net in 2000. I dont know how it got there Im glad it did.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

you might be more specific--there are three 'bunches' in that :)

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

She is a notable liar and could care less about truth period much less Bible truth.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Votive Soul,
Are you interested in contacting the Administrator of that group and asking that person to remove your article from the website in question?

I am thinking they'll comply with your request, but I am really curious to see what happens.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I looked at that web site and it sounded more like a smear campaign against my UPCI brethren.

Yes I do consider the UPCI as my brethren even if they do not reciprocate the feeling. :D

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning toward leaving it alone. If what I have written is true and accurate doctrine as it pertains to water immersion, and if someone clicks on the link at that website, and they read it, and the Spirit quickens their understanding and brings them to conviction regarding immersion, then I am all for it.

If someone reads my blog from her website, and dismisses it as falseshood and inaccurate doctrine, then that's their business. The Word goes forth, accomplishing whatsoever the Father desires. It will not return empty-handed (i.e. void).

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Where has she lied?

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

no kidding; being as you are called to a higher standard, that question requires an answer imo. (we'll just hold our breath :)) The page seemed like a conscientious attempt to provide a comprehensive overview of the beliefs in water baptism, and it seemed to me that VS's link was in the right place, given the 2 choices? Would you prefer to be on the other side, VS?

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

You may need to go back and read the thread from the beginning...

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I read the whole thread

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Ok, so you have no problem with what she does.
Fine.
I think it is misrepresentative of the UPC.
Or is a lie...

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I think she caters her site to minister to people who have been disillusioned or hurt by the UPCI and other Christian organizations.

Some would rather not discuss or even DENY the fact that there are former UPCI victims of bad pastoring, bad doctrinal presentations, bad (fill in the blank) associated with Apostolics in general and the UPCI in particular.

Ignoring or denying the victims does not help the victims or the organization.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

OK suppose that some people have been hurt by an organization called the UPCI.

we must remember that organizations are made up of human beings and human beings will hurt other sometimes intentionally and other times unintentionally.

yet nowhere is the goal of the organization to hurt others on purpose, it is not written in their ruler or regulations of the UPCI to do harm to anyone.

it takes a bigger person to forgive a wrong than to hold a grudge.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

It takes a big person to admit when they are wrong.

By the way, that "purge" was done in the wrong spirit too.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Thats how I feel about it.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Just don't spiritually abuse them! They are very sensitive to that. :icecream:happydance

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Does the administrator believe this is a UPC point of view? Maybe an email would be in order.
I have heard this explanation of water baptism given before but never in the context of UPC doctrine.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

It seems the website is trying to pigeonhole the belief into a UPC belief, and not showing there's likely more people outside the UPC that believe that than the constituency of the UPC. But by saying it is UPC they are trying to say it is minimal and cultic . Can't say that when people who outnumber the UPC believe it too. By pinning it to an organization it's like pining it to a cult leader, or something like the JW's..

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I get what you are saying Mike, but I have never met a Oneness Pentecostal that was not going to a UPC church. Not until I came to AFF.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

...

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

In Manitoba Canada there are far more oneness believers who are not UPC than are UPC. Strangely enough they are aborginals.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Wow. What part of the world are you from?

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Saint Louis Missouri

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

lol. No wonder.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

I think you're right. I would want to know the motive for publishing Votive Soul's blog piece. Is it, "See! Here is ANOTHER example of the cultic interpretation of water baptism!", without knowing that VS is not UPC.

Kind of like tossing spaghetti against the wall to see what sticks. When someone does that, they need to make sure that the spaghetti brand is the same.

Re: One of my blogs found its way to spiritualabus
 

Read your article, Votive. Very good insight, although I think I have heard CoC preachers preach it very close to that way.