Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Can a demonic spirit inhabit the heart of one who is a believer? One who has been baptized in Jesus name, filled with the spirit, who has spoke in tongues, and has professed to be living for Jesus?

Scripture references appreciated.

II Cor. 11:13
For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.


Does this scripture imply that Satan can impersonate himself into the heart of a believer?

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

off the cuff, Christ called even the Apostles "evil," so i think we have an unclear idea of how all this works. Is seeking your own interests evil? Maybe.

I've cast them our of Acts 2:38 believers so no one can tell me it didn't happen. I say that because it always raises controversy amongst Apostolics. ;)

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Controversial indeed!

I have a copy of the book Killers in Hiding (sent to me by Sis Dana Klein as a birthday gift from way, way back). It talks about this topic. I lent it to a pastor's kid friend who showed it to his father and he couldn't believe it.

Bro Blume, you had one of those articles (can't remember where I found it) it's called Total Deliverance. I think you explained it really well there. I believe the key is to understand the difference between soul and spirit and also to have a proper understanding of being "filled" by the Spirit of God.

Exactly. people think we are like rooms and God and the devil won't exist in the same room. truth is we are spirit, soul and body. So God isn't in the same room with the devil.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

I'd like to see SCRIPTURE that says a genuinely born again, Spirit-filled child of God can simultaneously 'have a demon', or be 'demon possessed'. I'd like to see where the Bible teaches a person may simultaneously 'have the Holy Ghost' and also 'have an unclean spirit'. I'd like to see Scripture that teaches - actually TEACHES - that one may be 'filled with the Spirit' and simultaneously 'filled with the devil' at the same time.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

No. It says that there are a number of preachers going around pretending to be Christ's ministers but who are in fact ministers of satan. Their 'end shall be according to their works', which shows us they talk the talk but do not walk the walk. They present an appearance as being sent by Christ, when in fact they are agents of the adversary.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Just one verse or passage teaching that Christians - filled with the Holy Ghost - can also have a demon and or need a demon to be cast out of them. Just one example or positive statement in the New Testament scriptures will suffice for me.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

tick, tock, tick tock...

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Beloved, do you believe the "once saved, always saved" doctrine?

I'm not trying to change the subject: I believe the topics are related.

possession is when ones spirit, soul and body are under control of devils. but to possess a devil does not necessarily mean possession by devils. A Christian is a temple. the holiest is the human spirit where only the Lord as high priest dwells. no devil can enter there. but the same person can have a devil in the soul or body. I've seen it and cast them out.

It's like Holy Ghost filling. Just because you have the Holy Ghost doesn't mean you're filled with it. Filling means totally submitted to the Spirit. That's the reason the church was filled in Acts 2 but some of the same people were filled again in Acts 4. it's also why Eph 5:18 told Spirit baptized believers to be filled with the Spirit.

Spirit "filled" people can't get an evil spirit.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

That's a weird question to answer. not your fault. just weird to answer. God is everywhere and devils are located in places in that everywhere.

God's is in believers while they still have wicked thoughts. He's in this world with evil in it as well.

His Spirit sort of retracts back into our human spirits when our souls or minds sin. when he filed us His influence expands outward from within our spirits and into our souls and bodies.

The ark wad in the holiest in Eli's day but sin was going on in the tabernacle outer court with his priestly boys. Phinehas and Hophni.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Thanks Bro. Blume. I didn't have time yesterday to come back and respond here. Your analogy of Ananias and Sapphira is a good one, in that we can be believers, but still not totally submitted to the Lord Jesus, and evil things can still be in our hearts.

It seems there is a difference between an evil spirit that torments and is entertained in the heart of a believer, to one that has complete control and possession.

I think of King Saul who was anointed by God, and did great things for the Lord, but he began to be lifted up by pride and allowed an evil spirit in his heart that was a jealous spirit too, and that spirit stayed with him and tormented him, even though he had the anointing on him.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

If they are preachers who are pretending to be Christ's ministers, it would follow that they had been baptized in Jesus name and filled with the spirit, would it not, in order for the saints to be deceived by them!

This scripture really does, in my opinion, speak to the fact that a spirit filled believer could become a deceiver, if their hearts do not become fully submitted to Christ, and instead they become vessels used by satan.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

A reprobate mind... the NT is quite clear about those turning from the Lord and having a reprobate mind. This would apply to those filled with the spirit, and claiming to be believers, who did not receive a love for the truth, entertained evil spirits, and were turned over to a reprobate mind.

Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Titus 1:16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

As sad and scary as it is, it is quite clear in the NT, that there were those who once had a love for the truth, who were believers and followers of Jesus, who did not receive a love for the truth, and allowed deceiving spirits in their hearts to reign, instead of Jesus Christ, and who became transformed from ministers of Jesus into the vessels of the enemy.

Just because someone can talk the talk and act the part, does not mean that they truly are submitted fully to Jesus Christ. We must be careful to see that the works that come out of a believers life must be according to the fruit of the spirit, and not the fruit of the flesh.

Tormenting spirits can be entertained in the heart of a believer, and if they are not cast out, and thrown down, they will destroy.

II Timothy 2:24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Paul told Timothy that to in "meekness instructing those that oppose themselves" to recover themselves from the snare of the devil, who are taken CAPTIVE by him at his will. Pretty scary stuff! Believers taken captive by satan!

We need to realize that just because someone speaks in tongues and claims to be filled with the spirit, does not necessarily mean they are truly submitted to Christ in all things.

And the snare of the enemy can happen if we entertain unclean thoughts and ideas in our hearts and allow tormenting spirits, that we can become deceived vessels of the enemy instead of the Lord.

Deception in the church is the enemy's greatest victory. Deceived to believe that one is carrying out the work of the Lord, when it is the work of deception and the enemy. Just as A & S were deceived and were deceiving, the Lord showed the church just how terrible a sin it is to have satan to fill the heart of a believer with deception.

Acts 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Deception begins in the soul (mind).

Whoever governs the soul (mind), governs also the body. The body will
obey either the Spirit of the Lord, or the spirit of the world:whosoever we
(the spirit-man) are obeying. If we obey the lust of the flesh (sin), then
the Spirit is quenched (weakened) by our free will! If we (the spirit-man)
obey the Spirit of the Lord, then we will be "...mighty through God to
the pulling down of strong holds; casting down imaginations, and every
high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into
captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ...". When a person is
able to do this, a person is NOT possessed.

There are three levels and degrees of demonic activity in a person: (1) the
"...fiery darts of the devil...", when a man is tempted and the spirit draws
near; (2) when the spirit enters and governs the thoughts of a person; and
(3) when a person is once, twice, and thrice declared a reprobate. That
third degree of reprobate is the actual possession. There is no return from
there; no more chance to repent (Heb. 6: 4-6)!

I'll have you know, Beloved of the Lord, that being lost for all eternity is not
as easy as the demons would have you believe. Our Lord God has made it
far easier to repent and be saved, than it is to be lost.

"For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of
love, and of a sound mind."

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

Acts 2:38 believers are susceptible to the enemy based upon our choice to submit to God or submit to unrighteousness.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Yes, agreed. God is so merciful to give space for repentance. And while the fiery darts of the enemy come against us all, how we react to those things makes the difference. If we entertain them, give place to them, and then begin to obey them... that is the game changer right there.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Our choices indeed are the difference. We can come against the attack of the enemy with the WORD of God, or we can sit back and entertain and give place to the whispers of the enemy.

God help us all to hold up the shield of faith to protect us from the attack of the enemy!

Ephesians 6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

And what does this prove?

Anyway, you said Spirit filled people cannot get an evil spirit.

I am not following the point of the thread anymore????

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Can you show from Scripture that believers can have evil spirits 'cast out' of them? I submit to you that the terminology you are using is misleading. 'Casting out' evil spirits refers to delivering demon possessed people from the power of the enemy. Believers, by definition, do not have 'demons in them that need to be cast out'. While it may come about that a believer can be influenced and deceived by an evil spirit, the cure for such things is NOT 'casting out the demon' but correction by the Word of God.

Upon what basis do you assume that those mentioned who are taken captive by the devil at his will are 'believers'? Seems to me that a believer is one who has been born again. And I do not see in Scriptue where born again children of God can be 'taken captive' by the devil at his will. IF that were the case, then satan is more powerful than Christ, which I wholeheartedly deny. Please notice, Paul said these people are 'taken captive by him at his will'...

The spirits must be tested. Every false teacher in the NT church was a false teacher who crept in unawares into an apostolic Holy Ghost congregation that had been born out of the fires of red-hot revival. Therefore, the false teachers had all the outward appearance of being genuinely apostolic. Otherwise, they would never have been acknowledged as even saved, much less any kind of 'apostle' or teacher or 'prophet'. So then the test is not does a person gyrate, shake, shout, speak in tongues, fall out, jump, dance, proclaim powerful messages, etc. The test is 'does this person and their teaching line up with the Word of God?'

Ananias and his wife were deceived into thinking they could lie to the presence of the Spirit and get away with it . The lie was 'we sold our house for such-and-such, and here is all the money, we are giving it to the church because we love everybody and want to help out, see? We give it all!' When on fact they kept back part of the money. They could easily have been honest and said 'here's part of the money, we're keeping the rest for personal use' and nobody would have died. But they lied to the church, and Peter said in doing so they had lied to the Holy Ghost. They lied to the Spirit that was animating that apostolic community of believers.

So God struck them dead. And people learned not to mess around with God.

But I see nothing in this account to suggest that Ananias was possessed, or 'had a demon'. Otherwise, Peter would have cast the demon out. Instead, Ananias listened to the devil who whispered in his ear 'you can keep some of the money but tell them you gave it all, they'll love you for it, God will honour your giving, and nobody will be the wiser'. So his heart (intention) was filled with the idea of telling this lie, which he did, and died.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

A Spirit-baptized believer had his heart FILLED BY SATAN.

You must not have read what I said about being FILLED with the Spirit and Having God's Spirit in but not FILLED with it. Just because someone was filled with the Spirit at one point, and serves God today doesn't mean it still FILLS them. I explained that earlier.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Esaias - it comes down to choices. A once-filled spirit believer CAN entertain the enemy, and succumb to the fiery darts of the enemy.

Bro. Blume already said so well that one who is FILLED with the spirit of the Lord cannot be FILLED simultaneously with satan.

But a choice can be made in the heart of a believer to allow and entertain the enemy. Ananais simply just didn't listen to satan, the scripture says SATAN FILLED HIS HEART.

You can't ignore that Esaias.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

A & S didn't get a chance for correction from the word, did they? Swift and terrible action was taken by the Lord, because Satan had filled his heart... the heart of a believer!



The enemy is not more powerful than the Lord. But when we entertain the enemy, listen to his lies, and allow ourselves to fall into his traps, that is when the deceiving spirit enters and fills the heart. We see it in the case of A & S. We see Paul mention those who did not receive a love for the truth turned over to a reprobate mind.


Yes, your point here is the same as we are making. A false prophet must by all definitions have been accepted as one of the brethren, but did not receive a love for the truth, and made a CHOICE to turn from the Lord, and to allow satan to deceive them and to become the deceiver.



Satan had FILLED A's heart. That is scripture. You can't deny that. He didn't just listen to the enemy, he allowed his heart to be FILLED with the enemy, a former believer.

It does come down to our choices.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Who says Ananias was 'Spirit baptised'? Is that not an assumption?

Also, his heart was not filled WITH satan. It was filled BY satan, meaning satan convinced him he could lie and get away with it. Peter didn't cast out the devil, God killed the man and his wife outright. They were guilty, which a demon possessed person would not be.

Demon possessed people don't need to repent, they need to be healed/delivered. And sinners don't need the devil 'cast out' of them except by the preaching of the word and by their faith and repentance. ('Cast out' being used metaphorically, obviously, unlike in the case of true demonic possession.)

We're probably talking past each other here because of a confusing of terms. I may not even be fully aware what the topic of discussion actually is. I was under the impression the topic had to do with Christians (genuine Christians, not just nominal or professing ones) having demons.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Brother, believe what you want. I cast them out of people with the Holy Ghost and the results were miraculous. It just happened. If one is there, I do not critique the person and organize a panel to determine if the person has the Holy Ghost or not. I cast it out and the person is incredibly helped.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Agreed.

Agreed.

Filled his heart 'to lie'. It doesn't mean Ananias was 'filled with a demon' or demon possessed. Perhaps that is where the confusion lies, I am not quite understanding what you guys are saying.

I understand that Ananias was deceived by satan, convinced he could lie to the church. God brought swift judgment against him and his wife for it. God pruned the vine. I do not, however, understand that Ananias was 'filled' in the sense he was filled with a demon or an unclean spirit. The fact Ananias was not prayed for and given deliverance is proof positive of that, in my opinion. Ananias was guilty of sin. NOBODY commits sin unless they have been deceived by satan in some way, shape, or form.

We ar eprobably saying the same thing, it's just the terminology being used, to me, sounds like a stretch, as if Ananias was demon possessed.

Christians, who have the Spirit of God, cannot be demon possessed. It's an oxymoron.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

So, experience trumps Scripture? Again, where is the Scripture showing a person 'with the Holy Ghost' who needed demons to be cast out of them?

I believe the Scripture, all experiences - yours, mine, third party's, everybody's - notwithstanding.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Possession and Spirit filling are too loosely used. People can have demons and not be possessed by them. People can have the Holy Ghost and not be filled with it.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

I never said experience trumps scripture. But TRUE understanding of scripture agrees with actual experiences.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Please demonstrate from the Scripture these assertions - that a person can 'have demons and not be possessed by them' and that a person can have the Holy Ghost and not be filled with it?

In regards to the latter statement, how is that any different than standard charismatic or AoG teaching that a person can receive the Holy Spirit and not be filled with the Spirit?

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

No, true understanding of experiences agrees with Scripture. :)

Again, please give the Scripture showing people with the Holy Ghost needing demons to be cast of them.

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

Show me scripture where people with the Holy Ghost needed deliverance from cancer.

The point is every variable of problems cannot be listed or outlined in scripture. The PRINCIPLES allowing or not allowing for things ARE in scripture, though.

I already noted Paul told the entire Eph church to be FILLED with the Spirit. ALL the people at the prayer meeting in Acts 4 were FILLED, including Peter and John who were already filled in Acts 2. Why did they need filling again if it is "once filled always filled"?

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

So, no scripture showing Holy Ghost people needing demons cast out of them? No scripture where any apostle, or Jesus, taught that once people received the Spirit and were born again they could still have demons needing to be cast out?

Re: Demonic Spirits and the Believer
 

No more than any scripture says Christians can have or not have cancer.