Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

This might be old news because I've been out of the loop a long time---don't know that I ever was in the loop---but news came to me that TS has resigned or is resigning from POA. Big move for him. God bless TS, he's a great person.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Wow! Is he gone already?

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

I don't think so. I think it's in process.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

I could have prophesied this (and did but not on AFF). When the mantle that had been assured would be passed for many years didn't pass when AM turned 65 it was all but done.

As usual in Pentecost churches the work will be left to family. Blood is thicker than water and when AM's son went into ministry TS should have known it was over for him at POA.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Old news.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Interesting, would you care to expound on this thought of ministerial nepotism?

:)

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Interesting bit I found on Wikipodium


Nepotism is favoritism granted to relatives. The term originated with the assignment of nephews to cardinal positions by Catholic popes and bishops. Nepotism can occur in various fields including: politics, entertainment, business, and religion.

Do you have proof of this, or are you just posting gossip and libel?

An Admin, no less.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Why is this gossip or libel?

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Bro. Beni, I see it ALL the time, and in most cases it doesn't turn out well.

It is gossip. Talking about someone and something of which he is not personally vested or involved.

And it's libel because he's accusing Anthony Mangun of shoving out Terry Shock over nepotism with no proof.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

It does not seem to me to be gossip when one hears that someone is leaving a position, and they ASK if it is so. I have not read where anyone ASKED if there was trouble between AM and TS...just wondering if he's leaving.

As for the libel bit, CC1 was not "accusing" anyone of anything. He was giving his opinion.

Of course, this is one woman's opinion...:nod

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

I think you have Trump overdose. :heeheehee

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

No one is accusing anyone of anything. CC1 may just be connecting the dots? Who took Brother Shock's position at POA?

Doesn't read like a question to me. More like an accusation.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Respectfully, that's your opinion. That doesn't make it so... :nod

Of course.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Who is he accusing?

It is an opinion.

Okay. It's an opinion. :thumbsup

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

What about my post needs "proof" or is libelous? I simply stated the obvious. Shock and the church had been told for many years emphatically that AM was retiring at 65 and Shock was taking it over. That is fact.

When AM was close to 65 years old rather than making that transition things were "put on hold" or "in a holding pattern" and it did not happen. That is a fact.

For those of us with relatives and friends associated with that church so are somewhat familiar with it we know that Gentry has become a preacher whose ministry has been progressing rapidly. Something of which I am sure his father is very proud of.

With that happening there is no leap in logic to believe that AM's change of heart about TS is associated with a desire to pass the church on to Gentry directly.

If you think my post is gossip or libelous you clearly have no idea what those terms mean.

Whatever Anthony Mangun decided is between him and Terry Shock. You accusing Mangun of nepotism is uncalled for. Even if POA does make Gentry pastor one day, it's none of your concern.

Do you know for fact this is why TS is leaving or are you just spreading stuff?

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

I am not the one who said TS was leaving. I have heard that he is but that was some months ago and I don't have any new information. I was simply commenting on the FACT that AM did not go through with the transition to TS when he turned 65 as he had said he was going to do for many years.

For what it is worth I thought it was a mistake for AM to repeatedly emphasize very specifically what his succession plans were so many years in advance and then emphatically repeating them year after year.

As far as your notion that it is nobody's business and we should just all stick our heads in the sand and not have questions or wonder about Pentecostal successions I am sorry but those days of Preachers being some sort of kings whose actions cannot be evaluated or questioned are long gone.

You can have great respect for men of God and honor them, etc without burying your head in the sand and ignoring that you have a brain and common sense.

Your admonition for folks to just "move along now, there is nothing to see here" is absurd. Are there instances where a son inheriting a church is a good thing? I am sure that happens many times. Are there instances where a man's judgement and ability to hear the will of God is colored by his carnal desires for his son? Also yes. Sadly I think the latter happens more often than the former. No hard statistics just over 50 years of anecdotal observation. You can't get away with just telling people it is none of their business anymore what goes on. If pastors have public ministry's and want their voices to be heard and respected they should have no problem with public or private comments on their actions as long as there are not false accusations or misrepresentations.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Actually, there was an archived video of the service in which Pastors Shock and Mangun announce his resignation and the plans for moving forward. In that video (which has now been removed) Pastor Shock says that he made a decision to decline the role of Senior Pastor a few years ago. Incidentally, there are two young men, (one of which is Gentry) who will now be assistants and a third young man will be in a similar role. Bro. & Sis. TF Tenney are also coming on staff at POA for a season.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Thanks for the update!

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

How does one pass a church off to another man?

How does a church board and the saints in general not have a vote in who becomes the next pastor?

If it's because of by-laws, who in their right mind would want to attend a church with such by-laws?

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

If a church has a lot of confidence in their pastor and loves him or in some cases fears him they will respect his leadership enough to believe that whatever he says is the will of God is the will of God.Particularly in the culture of old time Pentecost and many Charismatic churches.

Likewise my observation has been that most or virtually all church boards are made up of "yes men" who for the most part just endorse whatever the pastor wants to do. Of course there are a few cases where the Pastor does something to anger some board members and then things can get contentious but I know of very few times of this happening.

I am not criticizing the board being folks who support the pastor. If I were a pastor I would want that also. However the board should be charged by the pastor with instructions to bring accountability to him, provide financial oversight with full transparent financial visibility to the board, etc.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

People who believe ministry is appointed not elected. Of which opinion I am.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

This is right on. There is currently one that is being passed to a son this year that I fear will not be best for him or the church. I hope it works out though. There will 3rd and 4th generational passing of churches. My personal opinion is that it is completely wrong and should only be a last resort. It goes along with the idolizing of men so prevalent in certain movements. It also goes hand in hand with how most oneness churches will not disclose the amount of tithes in an annual business meeting. That is another discussion but just another example of the control the pastor has.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Pastors are only human and it is a human instinct to protect what you have put blood sweat and tears into usually for many years. It is also a parents instinct to protect and promote their offspring. Sadly in some cases it is also a parents instincts to see their children through rose colored glasses and not the reality of what and who they are. All of the above can be a toxic mix in some cases.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

I can think of one in texas that was passed on and its shocking to see the changes @ cornerstone ,not sure how you could anticipate it though !

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Is there a website?

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

http://cornerstonefortworth.org/


Of course I am very excited about Cornerstone and Steve Pixler's changes!:happydance

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

CC - I am sure you are. And you can be sure that I am not. I will defer to someone's opinion who used to be a prominent poster, here.
She and her husband also became convinced of the non-essentiality of some of the UPC teachings.
However, they left the church which they were pastoring and went and started another, in a different area of the country.
She stated that it was not right to attempt to move a church from those basic doctrines and that you would end up destroying people when you did it.
She was and still is right.
I still have the utmost respect for her and her husband.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

I think it all depends on how you do it. The mistake a lot of pastors make is that they will put on a congregation changes in thinking that took them years to get to in too short of a time frame.

I remember several decades ago talking to a UPC preacher who had visited a prominent exUPC Pastor seeking advice on how to implement change and he said that pastor told him that it was like steering a large, long ship. You had to tack slowly and make wide turns. I would add to that metaphor that sudden changes in directions causes some people to be thrown out of the ship and some end up drowning.

You are correct that sudden change will make some people feel as if the rug has been pulled out from under them and can end up destroying people. This comes back to the aspects of psychological conditioning that goes on in any type of intense indoctrination. I know it makes people angry when I say this but it is only natural that when you are taught week after week, year after year, a set of doctrines and rules it becomes your mental measuring stick of right and wrong so anything that controverts that causes confusion and guilt. People need to be brought along over time to look afresh at the Bible and christian teachings.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

This is what I have departed from. It should be the sharing of everyone's blood and sweat. No one man should make or have that much influence......Elders, deacons, etc.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

It's interesting to see that we agree on some of this, but from totally different sides of the issue.
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient".

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

And I am NOT!!

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Very sad.

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Yes it is!!

Re: Terry Shock Leaving Alexandria
 

Just For you!