UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Other than when a minister does not pay his dues, under what circumstances will the UPCI remove a minister from the organization without so much as a notice or a telephone call?

Background to the question:
I was told that a pastor notified his congregation that the UPCI has removed him from the organization. The pastor stated that he stopped receiving UPCI material in the mail.

I told the person relaying the info that the organization will drop a minister if he doesn't pay his dues and that I am not aware of any other circumstances where they will remove a minister without requesting that he meet with his district board.
Background to the pastor: he was reclusive as far as the district and section are concerned. The church didn't fellowship with any of the churches nearby. Could this be why he was dropped by the org?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Why be in org if so reclusive?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

That's another story for another day.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

I have been around UPC leadership for basically all of my life and I have not heard of that one.
If it did happen, the district superintendent would be the one that would normally have the greatest influence in the decision.
I have seen pastors dropped, but not without notification, (and usually several conversations at that).

The problem with this is the lack of first hand knowledge. You were told by someone who was either told by someone else, or was part of the congregation which heard from the Pastor.

There's likely more to the story. I have not heard of this happening before.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

:thumbsup

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

The congregation was told by the pastor. The story doesn't add up. I told my friend that the pastor didn't pay his dues or he was asked to meet with the district board and he didn't show.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

The pastor told me that soon after he took the church there were some that wanted him to be the district superintendent, but he declined. Apparently that caused issues (of jealousy) with some people. That, and he was close to N.A. Urshan.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Ministers are dropping the UPCI. :D

I love my UPCI brethren, but as far as I am concerned the UPCI is becoming more irrelevant with each passing day. Sure they were great and did much good, but it has become old and tired.
It is time for either the old stale leadership to resign in mass and let the new generation take over or for new organizations to be formed from the bones of the UPCI.

The UPCI has become stuck, and not longer moving forward. It is time for the Oneness believers to get of that broken bandwagon and move on ahead.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Ouch! What particular things should they move forward about?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

The real miracle here is that someone stopped receiving junk mail.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

More "flaming" here! Lol.
Actually UPC is moving forward and seems to have righted itself after several ministers left for the WPF.
And the WPF seems to be growing, as well.
The ones I worry about are those who leave to go to no organization.
Seen too many fall off the deep end.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

:thumbsup:thumbsup

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Are they really moving forward?
what is their actual growth rate?

Have they righted themselves?

I see no problem in some leaving the UPCI to start their own organizations, perhaps the new move of God will come from those new organizations.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

My observation is based on youth events, both national and regional.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

1. I disagree.

2. Depends on what you consider the "deep end". Some of the strongest most thriving Apostolic churches out there are independent churches who have either pulled out of the UPCI in the last decade or have never had a UPCI affiliation. Many independent churches are very strong in the areas of doctrine, holiness, prayer, revival, and strong fellowship bonds and some of the largest Apostolic churches are independent.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

How has the UPCI "righted itself" since 2007?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

I wonder that too, all I see is more of the same old stuff.

I do wish the UPCI had righted itself, I do wish them the best, I really really really would love to see the UPCI move forward but as far as I can see, I do not see anything.

Could someone please enlighten me and prove me wrong, I would love nothing better than to be shown that I am wrong, please pretty please show me that I am wrong and make me happy.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

I doubt if I can convince anyone of the UPCI "righting" itself.
All I have is many years of working with UPC leadership, almost exclusively with youth events.
When the WPF began, I also began attending some of their meetings, again primarily youth events.
It has been my impression that when the WPF exodus happened, the UPC actually moved more conservative, which was the opposite of what I thought would happen.
Insofar as to why I believe they have "righted" the ship, I will point to better leadership at the top and in most departments.
I have many friends and family in both the UPC and WPF and both orgs are growing and opening new works.
Just my opinion, however, just attended a UPC youth event, last weekend that set records for attendance and offerings.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Comical. It appears he is basing whether or not he is in the UPC by what is or isn't received in his mailbox. They have been digitizing many things so not as much is mailed. No one is ever removed without notification, even if it is only non-payment of dues.

North America seems to see little numerical growth and it has been this way for years. Most of their numbers come from overseas. Numbers in NA have been skewed for years once they started counting preaching points/daughter works where sometimes most that attend are from the home church.

As to numbers at youth events, many of those attending will later leave. They are not indicative of an organizations growth but only attendance at these special events.

Bernard has done much to help financially, in my opinion, and has pressed for apostolic identitity since before becoming GS.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Agree with some of this.
I would say that numbers at youth events have increased fairly rapidly, since the WPF pastors left.
Which is ironic, because the WPF youth events have also increased fairly rapidly since the early days.
I would say that an increase of attendance at youth events are indicative of an increase, provided the percentage "leaving" remains constant.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Back to the original post / question - I think, as others have said, there must be more to this story than the pastor is sharing. Clearly the UPC does not just drop ministers from its roles on a whim.

I think the theory that he didn't pay his dues and was dropped is the most likely but it also could be some other thing with the district. I would be willing to bet the farm that the pastor knows a lot more of the "why" than he is sharing.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

He is no longer listed in the directory. I think he is hiding something from the congregation.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

I agree. That is what I told my friend.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

:thumbsup

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

:thumbsup

I agree, he might think, to his congregation it would sound better for him to say they "dropped me" which can be conceived as truth. Because they will drop you for non payment of dues, but the bottom line is you know it is coming.

Having been a card carrying general licensed minster for over 10 years, in UPCI, never had I heard of UPCI ever dropping any minister without notice. I just does not happen.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Depending on WHO you are , you can HIDE your Faults if you have the RIGHT LAST NAME and keep your License. It's really sad the politics I have witnessed over the years.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

LBC, its like this, no matter where you go or what you do you will bump into the human experience. Yet, what you need to do is move forward and live for God. There are a lot of great Apostolic One God people out there. You can be one of them. Just don't focus on hurt feelings or offenses because they will be popping up for the rest of your life. There is no Brigadoon, or Shangri La here on earth, and Thomas More's Utopia can never be achieved. It is all up to you, who do you want to be? Do you want to put on Christ, or do you want to get bitter?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

I'm interested in hearing your response to good samaritan's post. What things do you believe the UPCI needs to move forward on, and - in addition to that - what precisely would you consider "moving forward"?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

As an outsider, I only know a little bit of what is going on in the UPCI, but the biggest complaint I hear is the legalistic cultic-like rules of the UPCI.

Of course I hear many other things, but this seems to be the biggest point of discontentment, it seems that many UPCI people are not happy of having becoming typed like the Amish, who must wear a certain "uniform" to be considered part of the saved, otherwise they are shunned.

This seems to be one of the reason many young people are leaving the UPCI.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Like the Amish?

Seriously?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

You can pretty much tell a UPCI woman from a mile away.
The uniform is standard.

How strange that the burden of the uniform rests mostly on the women. :D

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

That is good real Apostolic men stand out also no shorts, tank tops, mop top hair.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Well if that is what makes good real Apostolic men, then I guess most Mormons and JWs qualify as Apostolic.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Uniform? Bro, we are about to enter a time where there will be no more uniforms. It is called gender blending, gender neutral, no more male or female. So, you all got your wish. When you send your daughter to the public restroom and she has some 500 pound sweaty dude using the latrine next to her, she or you cannot complain. Because he can say he is any gender he pleases.

Uniform? Good luck with that! :lol

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

So, I guess transvestites are no longer an issue?

Where do you draw the line since you have remove the line?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Hmmm, what are these "legalistic cultic-like rules".
Could one of them be "come out from among them and be ye separate"?

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Actually I believe Deut 25:5 fits perfectly for transvestites.

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Be separate is good, I have nothing against the "Uniform" of the UPCI women, I just do not believe it has nothing to do with being holy, I think it is modest, but it is old fashioned and not a salvation requirement.

I do preach modesty, but a woman can wear slacks and perhaps be more modest than wearing a dress. So no I do not teach that it is ok to wear a bikini to church. :D

Re: UPCI drop minister without notice?
 

Either people dress modestly, or they don't. Some groups believe in modesty, some don't. Those that do, tend to dress similarly. Those that don't, likewise.

UPC women's clothing styles are not 'old fashioned'. Lots of people dress like that, including people who aren't religious at all.

The 'identifier' for UPC women is not modest clothing, by the way - it's the hair combined with dress or skirt and no wrist or neck jewelry. (All the jewelry is in the hair these days or on the dress or skirt.) And by hair I do not mean 'long hair', I mean those insane poofs and coiffures. There has developed a distinctly UPCI hair style system, it's unmistakable.

Nowadays, at least around here, if you see a woman dressed modestly and simply with a long dress or skirt, no makeup, no jewelry, and long hair they are more likely to be Baptist or non-UPC Pentecostal.

:dogpat