Are you a Creationist?
 

Which are you? Young earth creationist (literal 6 days of creation, no evolution of species from other kinds, no a biogenesis (spontaneous appearance of life from non-living matter by natural processes), etc?

Old earth creationist (days of creation are aeons of time, happened millions or billions of years ago, God designed nature to evolve per evolutionary science, etc)?

Evolutionist (billions of years ago, by natural processes with no Divine Intelligence guiding things, ie standard evolutionary theory)?

Other (please explain)?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I chose other because although I believe in a literal creation week, biogenesis, no macroevolution of species, I allow for the possibility of an unspecified time between Adam's creation and his expulsion from the garden, a possible unspecified amount of time between the 6th day creation of homo sapiens and the Adam who was placed in the garden, and a possible gap of unknown duration between Gen 1:1 and 1:2.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I normally lean towards a literal 6 day creation. My first pastor taught the Gap-Theory. I've read several good books on creation, each from differing positions. One is, "A New Look At An Old Earth", by Don Stoner. This book teaches the Day-Age theory, and is an excellent explanation of the view. Another excellent book is, "Genesis Unbound", by John Sailhamer. This book is like the Gap-Theory except after verse 2 the reader's attention is drawn to "the land" (the Holy Land) which God fashions in six literal days. The third book, and most provocative in my opinion, is, "Creation and Evolution", by Alan Hayward. This view is interesting because the author states that in the dateless past, before anything was, God spoke for six days. However, noting actually occurred the moment He spoke. Instead, after the Sabbath, the Big Bang took place and the entire known universe began to form. Essentially the author proposes that our entire universe is indeed 14 billion years old, but has formed according to divine fiats that took place over 6 days prior to time itself. Thus in the first chapter of Genesis we see parentheticals. For example, Genesis 1 would read like this:

Genesis 1:1-31
{1:1} In the beginning God created the heaven and the
earth. {1:2} And the earth was without form, and void; and
darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of
God moved upon the face of the waters.
{1:3} And God said, Let there be light:

({1:4} and there was light. And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and
God divided the light from the darkness. {1:5} And God
called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night.)

And the evening and the morning were the first day.
{1:6} And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst
of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

({1:7} And God made the firmament, and divided the waters
which [were] under the firmament from the waters which
[were] above the firmament: and it was so. {1:8} And God
called the firmament Heaven.

And the evening and the morning were the second day.
{1:9} And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be
gathered together unto one place, and let the dry [land]
appear: and it was so.

{1:10} And God called the dry [land]
Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he
Seas: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:11} And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, [and]
the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed [is] in
itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

{1:12} And the earth brought forth grass, [and] herb yielding seed after his kind,
and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed [was] in itself, after
his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:13} And the
evening and the morning were the third day.
{1:14} And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament
of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them
be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
{1:15} And let them be for lights in the firmament of the
heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

{1:16} And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the
day, and the lesser light to rule the night: [he made] the stars
also. {1:17} And God set them in the firmament of the
heaven to give light upon the earth, {1:18} And to rule over
the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the
darkness: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:19} And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. {1:20} And
God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving
creature that hath life, and fowl [that] may fly above the
earth in the open firmament of heaven.

{1:21} And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth,
which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind,
and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that [it
was] good. {1:22} And God blessed them, saying, Be
fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let
fowl multiply in the earth.

{1:23} And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
{1:24} And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living
creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast
of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

{1:25} And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after
their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after
his kind: and God saw that [it was] good.

{1:26} And God said, Let us make man in our image,
after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish
of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle,
and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that
creepeth upon the earth.

{1:27} So God created man in his [own] image, in the image of God created he him; male and
female created he them. {1:28} And God blessed them, and
God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish
the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of
the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living
thing that moveth upon the earth.

{1:29} And God said, Behold, I have given you every
herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth,
and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding
seed; to you it shall be for meat. {1:30} And to every beast
of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing
that creepeth upon the earth, wherein [there is] life, [I have
given] every green herb for meat: and it was so.

{1:31} And
God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, [it was]
very good.

And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

So, if you asked Alan Hayward if the universe was created in 6 days, he'd answer, "Yes." If you asked him if it formed over 14 billion years, he'd say, "Yes. Everything we see in the known 14 billion year old universe is the result of God taking six days to speak of what would be."

Ultimately, I have no idea how God did it. I find that each interpretation has its strengths and weaknesses.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Lastly, there is the notion of "Sacred Myth". This view holds that the entire Genesis narrative isn't intended to be taken literally or scientifically, but is to be taken as a "spiritual truth". This view proposes that it is a spiritual story explaining that God progressively created all things from the earth, even man (evolution?). Adam and Eve are not seen as descriptions of literal people, but representations of all of mankind. Thus, in Adam and Eve, we find ourselves. In the serpent we see the tempter that we all face. In their fall we find our individual loss of innocence. In God having clothed them, we find God's grace and desire to clothe us in His righteousness.

This view elevates the entire story into the realm of being above scientific inquiry and presents it as eternal spiritual truth about our relationship with God. It leaves science to work out the earthly "facts" while maintaining that no matter what science might find... we're all found in Adam, even the earliest human primates dating back nearly 2 million years.

Imagine if God's Spirit inspired the story of, The Three Little Pigs. It would teach an important lesson about building a life out of values that endure. And it would be just as divinely inspired as any other text. However, it wouldn't be intended to be taken literally. That's how this view sees Genesis.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

In the beginning was eternity, and God spoke: and "time"
did not begin until Genesis 1:14.

I don't know where that would put me.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

You left out the option of old earth, but literal 6 days.

That's my take. I don't believe creation occurred in 6 literal days. I believe renovation occurred in six literal days. Creation occurred in a moment in Gen 1:1. But the 6 days were literal.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Francis Febus is apostolic and believes the Genesis account is not about literal creation but about covenants, using spiritual language to lay out His covenants with man.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

The Gap Theory, Day Age Theory and Theistic Evolution are all conjecture, reading between the scriptures something that is not there in an attempt to conform the word of God with science.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Not really. Several passages throughout the word are used for the gap theory. Nothing read between the lines. I never accept something that is surmised, but the scriptures do bring this thought together.

Isaiah said God did not create the earth without form. So how can it be without form in gen 1:2 if God created it in 1:1 and he didn't create it without form?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Old earth creationist

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I guess today I am other. In the past I believed in a young earth and everything was created in 6 days(24 hour days).

I believe God designed and created everything in this universe. I think a gap theory is possible. As far as the days I have heard people say (a day with the Lord is a thousand years). I take this saying figuratively. I don't think that a 24 hour period is a literal 1000 year period that stops at midnight at the end of the 1000 years. I don't think it was intended to be taken literal like that anyway.

After finding new archeological evidence and gaining a greater understanding of our planet, is what helped me change my mind. I now believe that God created the universe. There is a gap that is not mentioned. I am guessing at this point. God created another race. This race fell, didn't please God or something. God destroyed them (God did this with the flood, so it is not out of his character) and started over with humans in the Garden of Eden. The new race was humans and the first humans were Adam and Eve. Pretty simple.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Old earth. It's obvious that species change and adapt, but that doesn't mean that they all started out as the same thing. Even humans change over time, but I believe God made them as humans.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Gap Theory here

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Other, ala Gerald Schroder's thoughts

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I believe the bible. I believe it is the unadulterated word of God. It is literal.

I believe that Time itself was not created until day 4 because THE BIBLE SAYS SO. So everything God created, including Earth....which pre-existed creation itself was created IN ETERNITY.

Therefore it is impossible to tag the word "day" used to delineate each day of creation to a 24 hour clock is simply unbiblical.


The bible itself says the The Earth was without form and void. The bible does not say one thing about why that was the case or what came before. Because the bible is/was written for humanity to guide us to God... NOT to give us a scientific/anthropological understanding of the history of God or of Earth.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

A six day creationist with allowances for a gap and unspecified time between Adam's creation and his expulsion from the garden.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Time was not created until the fourth day?

Impossible.

The very existence of three previous DAYS requires time to exist during those days. While the celestial clock had not been created yet, there was still "time".

Just because a person doesn't have a clock doesn't mean time isn't in existence.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Can you elaborate?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I think the silliest notion says God created the earth in an OLD state like Adam was created an adult.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Interesting read. Basically he seems to be saying 6 24 hour periods, but time moved at a different rate then, thus leaving behind the evidence of billions of years.

I don't necessarily agree with that*, but it is interesting.

* The idea of space stretching involves a logical contradiction: If all volume = "space", then space cannot increase in size, distance, etc. In order for the universe to expand, there must be space in which to expand. Which means the universe must be contained within another "space", which means the universe is not space itself, but something contained within space.

Now, on the other hand, if space itself did indeed expand, so would everything within it, and therefore the expansion would be undetectable, and in fact superfluous. Size is relative, and if EVERYTHING (reality itself) changed size, nothing would have actually changed.

The universe could collapse right now into a singularity, but nothing would be different because EVERYTHING would have shrunk proportionally.

Think of the zoom function on your monitor. As you zoom in, everything expands... but nothing actually changes. Its just your perspective. Now imagine reality itself zooming in, or out... no change exists except from an outside perspective... which wouldn't exist.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I, too, find his educated theory interesting. But for me, his scientific understanding of things simply encourages me that we know far too little about the wisdom of God's creation, to be too dogmatic about the age of the universe, or the length of the six creation days. And really, as irrelevant as it is to salvation and the gospel, perhaps it is better that we settle on six literal days, since that is what He put out there for us. The mysteries of the age of the universe, and the aeons of eternity before the big bang, are on the dessert bar. We should busy ourselves at the meat and potatoes bar.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Why, in your opinion, would that be silly? I think it is logical. If Genesis is to be taken literally, every fully developed living thing would have an appearance of age. For example, Eve wasn't yet 5 minutes old, yet she was mature enough to become Adam's mate.

I've heard some argue that if God created everything with an appearance of age that God would be guilty of deception. But that's not really true. Because God's Word reveals the truth of the matter. The deception would actually be anything that doesn't take God's Word into account.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

The theory of an old earth is based on the age of the strata of rock. Which is based on the supposed simpler, older forms of life being found fossilized on the bottom. However fossilization requires quick burial and all over earth it is out of order. In fact many man made fossils and artifacts are found in rock and coal that should be millions of years old. The best case for the sediments is the flood.

Also, a cataclysmic event between Genesis verses 1 & 2 would not have left any geologic evidence if the earth was then rendered without form and void. And if God declared the "recreation" as good and death had not yet entered in how could there be remains of a previously failed "original" creation?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Adam was created an adult because of the need for it. That's not so with the earth. There is no point in creating rocks with the appearance of age. So, it seems like simple reaching, to me.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Why do we think rocks look old? Because we are told the fossils in them are very old?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

The creationist explanation for that has always been that the completed creation had form. So verse one is the intro and verse two is telling us God had the elements and then called them into order. Verse one is the title. Verse two gets into the details. Of course the bible did not originally have verse numbers so that removes the gap anyway!

Isaiah 45.18 says he created the heavens and formed the earth, not in vain and to be inhabited. It must have been in vain and useless if the whole thing was blown up and he had to start over again?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

you are ascribing the word "impossible to GOD?

interesting.

read the bible. the bible says time was created on the 4th day.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

How do you measure days 1-3 without time?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I don't think so. I thought they date actual rock chemistry itself.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I don't think it was without time until the fourth day. He MADE, not CREATED, the sun and moon on the fourth day. That means it existed beforehand. He just renovated it. Look at the Hebrew words differences for make and create. Note what things were said to have been "created" as opposed to "made". There is a difference.

It says there was an evening and morning before the fourth day when he MADE the sun and moon etc..

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

I chose "Old Earth", but I believe the world was created in 6 literal days. I believe that this happened aeons ago, but I believe this happened, literally.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

The Earth pre-existing before creation???

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Some believe there was a former race of people created before Adam. I disagree. Paul called Adam the "first man".

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

There are people who teach that we are actually alive and exist spiritually BEFORE we are born here on Earth. I wonder if there is any correlation with that school of thought and the difference you are describing between "created" and "made".

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

...in the beginning the earth was... yea.


The creation story in Gen1 is about what God did to get to mankind. It is not the story of the beginning of the universe. Nor is it the story of the earth itself. it is only the story of US and how God expects us US TO ACT.

what is so hard about that?

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

personally I have no belief whatsoever about such things. its irrelevant because God has given me a document of the things he wants to make sure I know, and what he expects of me.

nothing in that book deals with such things. what do I care about that? how does that impact me when God clearly decided not to share one way or another about such things.

Re: Are you a Creationist?
 

Seems to me that we need a lot better explanation of: "...and
the evening and the morning was 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc.,day."

The clock beginning on the fourth day could explain (away) the theory
of evolution. WHY? Glad you asked.

Since creation would be millions of years old even BEFORE animals and
man were created, this would explain "carbon dating"! By adding that
into the computation (I thought I'd get upgrade my vocabulary from
seventh to eighth grade), scientist would think man was millions of
years old instead of thousands . . . because our bodies, that were
formed from the dust of the ground, would reflect the age of the dust
and not the time we were actually formed!

But that "...evening and the morning..." gets in the way!