Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Romans 2:1-2 (NIV)
You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge another, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. Now we know that God’s judgment against those who do such things is based on truth.

I know there was another thread about judging a while back. It was too voluminous for me to read. I don't know if this passage was discussed. However I'd like to proffer it now. "Judge not lest ye be judged" is often quoted concerning those who are judgmental.

This passage seems to build further. The problem with judging, this passage reveals, is that those who judge others are guilty of the same things. Of course, if you're judgmental you're probably too proud to believe that you're guilty of one or more of the following:

* Every kind of wickedness, evil, greed and depravity.
* Being full of envy, murder, strife, deceit and malice.
* Being gossips, slanderers, God-haters, insolent, arrogant and boastful.
* Inventing ways of doing evil.
* Being disobedient to parents.
* Having no understanding, no fidelity, no love, no mercy.

This is the list of sinful behavior Paul lists in Romans 1. Of course, he wasn't writing with chapters and verses, he was writing a letter. Therefore he continues with Romans 2:1. I think Eugene Peterson says it best in his paraphrase:

"Those people are on a dark spiral downward. But if you think that leaves you on the high ground where you can point your finger at others, think again. Every time you criticize someone, you condemn yourself. It takes one to know one. Judgmental criticism of others is a well-known way of escaping detection in your own crimes and misdemeanors. But God isn’t so easily diverted. He sees right through all such smoke screens and holds you to what you’ve done." Romans 2:1-2 (The Message)

The consistent message of Scripture is that God is no respecter of persons. That there is none that does good. There is none righteous, no not one. That ALL are guilty of breaking God's laws. It doesn't matter what law or laws we break, breaking even one law makes us a lawbreaker and we are condemned by the law. The breaking of law is sin and the wages of sin is death.

Therefore, there is no excuse, according to scripture to ever be judgmental. We are all guilty and we all need God's mercy. When we see someone else in sin, falling, failing, bound and torn by sin, we should do all we can to LOVE,
help, and forgive them whether in word, thought, or deed---considering ourselves lest we fall.

Being judgmental condemns not only the sinner but the sinner condemning them.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Amen.

The question raised in the other thread was whether or not it was actually judging, to begin with, to point to the bible where it says belief in Christ and the cross is necessary for salvation or we're lost, and saying all who have no belief in Christ and his cross for salvation are lost. That point never did get any attention, but all sorts of diversions from the point, without actually dealing with the point. Your thoughts, D?

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Is it judging to use the bible's plain statements about salvtion by works does not save, and say anyone who attempts salvaiton by works is lost?

IOW, is it judging to take a verse that says certain beliefs cause one to be lost, and say all applicable people are lost, or is it judging to make up our own criteria apart from the bible and say all applicable are lost? Or are BOTH instances just mentioned examples of judging?

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Prooftext without context is spooftext.

The context of the verse in question is the Jew who trusts in his Torah keeping to make him righteous and better than "other men", especially Gentiles in the church, because unregenerate Jews do not themselves keep Torah anyway.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Judging can refer to "condemnation".

It is not of itself condemnation, for then our preaching of the gospel
that saves would condemn and not invite to repentance. Even our
teaching would condemn the hearers! There is surely a difference
between conviction and condemnation. With conviction, a person
FINDS HIMSELF guilty before God; in condemnation, the hearer will
be found guilty BY MAN and sentenced to the lake of fire.

Do you feel convicted or condemned?

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

:nod

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

So, what say ye? Is it judging people to point at scripture that says all who are baptized and believe are saved, and apply that to people who were not baptized and did not believe to indicate they're lost and need to be saved??

Poor Peter! He told people they were lost and needed Acts 2:38. Where was the love of God?

Ironically the love of God is manifested in people who reach out to others with the saving gospel, telling how God so loved them He sent His Son to the cross.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

:highfive :thumbsup

Some people have a idea that enabling is love? Jesus tells us to first remove the obstacles from our own life (vision) and THEN we can see correctly to remove the speak from our neighbor's eye. Therefore being able to take them around the ditch, instead of leading them into it.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Leviticus 19:17 informs us that refusing to rebuke your neighbor for sin is hating your neighbor.

You cannot love your neighbor by enabling them and saying "I'm OK, you're OK". That's Biblically defined as hating your neighbor.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Leviticus 19:17 KJV Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.

:thumbsup

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Amen, spare the rod spoil the child. Even God chastens those He loves. We aren't to beat each other up. Yet, we aren't supposed to form a little bless me club either.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

You got that part right, sort of, i guess. I curse you, for teaching hate to sheep, when your best boy has clearly failed to defend it in so many places, and you refuse the job. You guys are playing with fire here, seeking God's glory, pretending you know and can judge, and that God will be mocked, when a simple admission that you do not know would suffice.
which is why i called for witnesses to Muslim's sin against anyone, many times--how many bombs have Muslims dropped on your hometown?--and also why i tell you that you are lost, and will die in your sin if you do not change your mind. Now you have been rebuked, what are you going to do about it?
What you are doing here is justifying a way that you get to have your way, which has nothing to do with Scripture, but your appropriation of it. Surely you are feeling the love right now, and are 'curious,' yes? The only reason i can see that you keep this up, when you cannot defend your point, and ran at "gutless," is because you think this is some game or something with no consequences, and that pastors can mock God with impunity.

If you persist, you will come to see another principle, and understand why you have to fake your healings now, because you cannot pray for both sickness and health from the same mouth. Keep praying sickness here upon yourself, day after day, and you are going to get sick, i mean it isn't rocket science, you are going to get more and more stressed about it as you look worse and worse trying to defend "Pay no attention to Christ" every day here, until eventually it makes you sick just to come here, at what point you will become a "sticky" for a day or two, urgent prayer for healing needed :lol
just keep it up and see.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

bump

The entire accusation of judging seems to be so far off the wall, without a direct answer to this question.

This point has been ignored for months about this issue, and plugging of the ears makes people think they're justified in their position. Meanwhile the question remains....

While others remained objective and non personal the insults proved the personal emphasis with some. Proved, I say.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

The Lord is the one who is to do the judging, and the casting off of the branches/trees that are unfruitful, but we can KNOW them by their fruits, in other words... we can know by the fruit being produced if one is producing good or evil fruit .... but the casting off and cutting down, and casting into the fire is the Lord's business, not ours.

Matt. 7:
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

So now you are doing what you have accused others of doing; which
is CONDEMNING ("I curse you"). Do you believe you will fare any better?
Are you not pretending to seek OUR God's glory, the God who created
the heavens ad the earth, and expect to be free from judgment?

You ask for a witness to "muslims' sin": Well, then, who are the
suicide bombers that have killed thousands of innocent people that have
done them no harm. Who is condoning the actions of those terrorists,
even with their silence and allowing the terrorists to hide among them?
They are muslims, justifying their deeds with a religion that offers life
for inflicting death to others. And THAT is the biggest difference between
Islam and true Christianity: we are called to die to SELF, that others may
live: not kill others, that we may live!

This is another sin that muslims have perpetuated, although it has been
done in ignorance: you have accused TRUE BELIEVERS in the God who has
created the heavens and the earth of bombing innocent men, women and
children. In that, you are bearing false witness: for no TRUE BELIEVER
would ever do such a thing. Those are FALSE CHRISTIANS, who are just
as deceived in their thinking as are muslims.

"Judge righteous judgment."

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

yet you are going to vote, thus legitimizing them, and allow for no TRUE BELIEVER among foreigners who would never commit atrocities. So again you highlight hypocrisy while pretending to fight it. You might consider the Word of those you respect, if you cannot hear me, wadr.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

^

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

There you go, again, judging True Believers in unrighteousness.

Christians will give to Caesar "...the things that are Caesar's...:, and give
to God what belongs to God. And what belongs to OUR God is praying to
"...let Your will, not mine be done." Sometimes He allows evil men to be
over evil men...even to bomb evil men unto submission: but it's beyond
your natural understanding.

"Whosoever sheds man's blood, by men will their blood be shed."
God knows how to make a difference between them that are His, and them
that only pretend to be His. God raises up evil men to punish evil men: and
He keeps our hands (True Believers hands, that is) free from shedding any
innocent blood.

"Judge righteous judgment."

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

There you go, again, judging True Believers in unrighteousness.

yes; exactly as Scripture directs, not judging those i do not know.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

but it's beyond your natural understanding.

what's beyond my natural understanding is how anyone who participates in that world can imagine that they will not be held responsible for their actions. If you vote, you are going to be held accountable imo

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

God knows how to make a difference between them that are His, and them
that only pretend to be His. God raises up evil men to punish evil men: and
He keeps our hands (True Believers hands, that is) free from shedding any
innocent blood.

K well i'd be careful to make sure that i wasn't on the wrong end of that first part there, in judging others and not yourselves, because the Religious Right's position of "they are all lost" is being taken as permission for genocide by many thoughtful people. Aren't OP pastors lending their imprimatur @ the UN now? Who you gonna vote for this time, phnx, the Liar or the Whore?
(why is that those willing to consider themselves True Believers (tm) seem to be the ones so quick to quote "righteous judgement" and never "you cannot judge?")

i see that this is rather pointed; sorry i lack grace.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

what is "true believer (tm)" but another way to say "those called out of humility, who say they can judge foreigners?"

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

I think what Paul is referring to is self righteous, prideful, hypocritical judgmentalism. When Jesus talks about judging in Matt 7, he calls out people who are judging others all the while having a glaring issue in their own lives. He instructs that one should take care of their own shortcomings so that they can help someone else with their issues.

The point of judging by the Body of Christ should be helping others, certainly it to condemn.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Amen. But is it condemning others to point to scripture like baptism and faith saves, and apply that generally to anyone not baptized and believing?

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

In this day and age only bible believing Christians are to be condemned. Everyone else gets a free pass. Didn't you get the memo?

lol

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Esaias, you know this is not a fair characterization. I was drawn into apologetics for them as a means to reason why God might consider someone's heart "pure" that does not believe like OPs do, period, and the issue has always been about pride. Which, as i guess i have said enough now, goes before a fall.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

How did Jesus preach the Gospel? The first church? It was direct, truthful, and pointed to Jesus. They spoke the truth in love. Telling someone what the Bible says in love isn't condemning. I could say "Unless you obey the Gospel, you're going to hell!" Or I could say, "God loved you so much He gave His only Son that whosoever believes on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." One condemns, the other one compels.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Neither one condemns. Jesus once said "Unless you repent you will likewise perish" after mentioning some people who died in an accident.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

nice.

Exactly. That's what I believe. Otherwise there would not be a word for us to speak truth in love. But some disagree. To some, speaking truth is hateful whether it's done in love kindly or not. There is no kind talk of truth to some.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

applying scripture that makes statements of salvation

is subjective, and all ___ are lost is building a wall instead of a bridge
and we are not even having the same convo, sorry. you justify horror, even as the leaders of empire make empty gestures at reconciliation, Muslim prayers and Pentecostal approval of Universal Dominion, right there in the UN, while they simultaneously fund both sides of war, your posterity footing the bill.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

There is only one way to salvation: Jesus Christ. No ifs, ands, or buts. How to communicate that, the motive for communicating that is just as important as the unvarnished truth.

Re: Judging Others is a Condemnation of Self
 

Amen.

:thumbsup