You'd Be Proud
 

My husband preached THE BEST message this morning on being Born Again, relating it to natural birth. So easy to understand!

Conception (Repentance) - Life happens at Conception (Salvation)
The Baby cannot stay there though - he needs to go through the water (Baptism). Then comes the Breath of Life ("pneuma") and Language - (Holy Spirit baptism). However, life was there as soon as repentance and confession happened. There are just more steps that come afterwards.

That how a person is born of the Water (natural birth) and of the Spirit (spiritual birth).

He also talked about why we baptize in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ. It explains Matt. 28:19 perfectly. "Lord" (Father), "Jesus (Son), "Christ" (Spirit). When we say "in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ", we are baptizing in the name of the F,S & HS. That's why we do it that way.

Next Sunday is our big baptism push (Made New Sunday), which we do a couple times a year, so we will see how many sign up this week. We baptize nearly every week, but these are really big days. The next week, he is teaching on the Holy Ghost and why everyone needs it. I'm excited to see what will happen.

Re: You'd Be Proud
 

:)

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"Lord Jesus Christ" as a baptismal formula = trinity compromise.

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:heeheehee

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Your Hubby is faithful to his Pastor's teaching. Elder Gurley!!!

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long live Elder Gurley!

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Absolutely, as well as Bro. J.O. Moore, Bro. Hansford, Bro. CM Greer - all the good old Tennessee elders that have gone on before.

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Lord Jesus Christ is totally Biblical and fulfills Matthew 28:19 as well as Acts 2:38. It's the most Biblical thing you can possibly say.

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Yikes!!!! NO COMMENT!!!! :heeheehee

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PROUD TO BE PCI!:happydance:happydance:happydance:happydance

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Two weeks ago we baptized 77 people in Jesus name when we had our quarterly Praise & Worship night which is the weekend we have baptisms after the Friday night event and then the four weekend services Saturday and Sunday are sermons on baptism with baptisms at the end of service.

Our church is only 7 1/2 years old and I believe we have baptized over 1,000 people in Jesus name during that time.

Re: You'd Be Proud
 

How many people in your church?

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Sorry to be nitpicky here (lol), but are you saying a person is saved at Repentance? How is that possible when Mark 16:16 says that if you don't believe AND are baptized, you will be damned?

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Amen. Actually conception is involved in baptism. We are PLANTED into His death when we are baptized into His death. Rom 6:3-5. A seed and egg conceives in the PLANTING, so to speak, and as you quoted Jesus, it accompanies faith or nothing happens.

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:thumbsup

What is your understanding of Romans 8:9. It implies that Spirit infilling is also involved or you are not a part of the Kingdom of God, i.e. adopted into the body of Christ?

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Rom 8:9....But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


I lean toward seeing spirit infilling as necessary for salvation. But that is a hard question in one sense. So, I am not dogmatic on what that verse is saying. The issue is not about salvation but overcoming fleshliness. So, although he may mention tenets of salvation there, I have to get more of a grasp on that detail.

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Thanks. It seems to imply that you could lose the Spirit of Christ if you don't work to overcome the flesh.

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amen

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You may be onto something!

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Okay, get a message and share it! LOL!

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That fits with the next few verses on what my interpretation of them is. the Spirit of Christ is in us so that we can nullify the force of the sin in our flesh, so that we are quickened, or empowered, to overcome and no longer be its debtors to live after the flesh. And if we are not LED BY THE SPIRIT in that way, to allow it to quicken us IN THIS LIFE (it's not talking about the rapture or resurrection), we will likely lose it. Those led but he Spirit IN THIS WAY are His children.

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Agreed. We want to keep the "earnest of our inheritance". Don't want to give that away.

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You will notice that scripture says nothing about the HG or speaking in tongues... believe, and are baptized = salvation... those two points cannot be argued. And then spirit comes as a result of that act... the empowering of the spirit of the Lord through the gifts of the spirit.

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But did not you say they're saved at repentance, implying no baptism?

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:thumbsup

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Me? No. At least I hope I haven't. No, I don't believe that at all.

Baptism is necessary for salvation. Multiple scriptures to back that up, including Mark 16:16

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Oh, ok. Got confused somewhere. lol

Oh, Sherri said her husband preached on conception at repentance.

When you responded to Pressing On's post to Sherri I thought she orginally asked that of you.

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Sometimes we think what we write is clear as a bell, and to others it is as clear as mud, lol... always good to clarify :)

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It has been preached before that before actual NEW BIRTH, there is life since conception took place. A law in the old testament stated an unborn baby's death demands the death of the perpetrator if a pregnant woman is hurt in a brawl between two men, because it's an eye for an eye. So, NEW BIRTH is thought to work the same way, and someone is saved before they're born again in the Acts 2:38 experience, as though repentance is when Acts 2:38 starts like life starts.

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I am sure that Bro. Blume has more to add to this as Romans 8:2 says, "For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death."

Paul is preaching that the Spirit infilling freed him from the Law of sin and death, having Romans 7 comparing the difference between the Law of Moses and the New Covenant, the New Covenant being superior.

He uses the marriage analogy to bring his point - when a marriage partner dies, you are free from that marriage and you are free to marry another.

There is salvation in the Holy Ghost - you are free from sin and death. The Spirit of Christ is a huge deal to the Apostles.

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That's right. I had forgotten that's how the teaching began to be used.

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Read it again - it says if you don't believe, you will be damned.

When Jesus compared being Born Again to the natural birth, you either believe life starts at conception or you don't. If you don't believe that in the natural, then we are all in trouble with the abortion thing. If you do believe that, then life also happens spiritually at conception.
Now that baby will go ahead and follow through the water and then the breath of life, but he's already ALIVE in Christ.

He was once DEAD in his sins, but he is made ALIVE when he repents and turns toward the Lord. At that time, he leaves Satan's Kingdom.

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I like the parable about the sower. He sowed the seed (word of God) in different types of ground. Some of the ground was good and some of it was bad. The good ground had life to spring forth out of it and it became fruitful. John told those at the Jordan River bring forth fruits meet for repentance (baptism). Baptism is a fruit of repentance. If we are good ground will bring fruit. If we are good ground we will fulfill all righteousness.

Jesus cursed the fig tree for not having any fruit on it. Many today believe in a fruitless Christianity. I think we spend too much time dissecting things. I personally believe that if a person is good ground they will receive the Holy Ghost.
If someone truly puts their faith in Christ, repents of their sins, and is baptized in Jesus name they shall receive the Holy Ghost. We sometimes make people feel like they have to get the Holy Ghost when in reality they will receive it, but we must show them the way to get there. Faith, repentance, and baptism is the recipe. If someone doesn't receive the Holy Ghost after these then we have a problem with the truth of God's written word.

Salvation doesn't take place at faith, salvation doesn't take place at baptism, nor does salvation take place at Spirit baptism. Salvation takes place when we here him say well done. All these things and many more are a necessary part of the journey, but we must all seek to have fruit on the vine when he comes.

PS I agree with saying one is saved after being born again of water and the Spirit because we are in a saved condition. Although, we are never actually saved until we get there.

Re: You'd Be Proud
 

Sorry, but this is seriously flawed doctrine, it doesn't even make sense within it's own paradigm.

First, if what you say is true, that 'born of water' = natural birth, then you have just consigned every miscarriage and every aborted baby to oblivion or worse. You have made actual natural birth a requirement for entering the kingdom of God. C-sections need not apply, I guess?

Second, you have conflated 'life at conception' with 'salvation' and 'birth' into a horrible mish-mash of nonsense.

Let's assume that 'life begins at conception' = salvation = faith and repentance. The problem is, conception is not birth. And Jesus did not say you must be conceived, but born. Conception comes before birth, and therefore conception is not birth. So whatever conception represents, it does not represent whatever birth represents. And it is birth that Jesus identified as the requirement for entering the kingdom of God.

Third, when a baby is born, they die if they do not BREATHE. So, if you have Holy Ghost baptism and tongues as being represented by the breathing (and crying?) of a newborn, then the analogy follows that a 'believer' who does not receive the Holy Ghost and speak in tongues is suffocating and will certainly and most assuredly without any doubt whatsoever BE DEAD. Call the undertaker.

So in effect, you teach that any believer who leaves this world without speaking in tongues will not enter the kingdom of God, and yet you seem to object to those who teach that receiving the Holy Ghost is a requirement of entering the kingdom of God. Trying to play both sides of the aisle?

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Do you think the problem may not be so much with the truth of God's word, but perhaps with the individual's faith? I think a lot of people get the mistaken idea that faith is some kind of 'will power' or force they have to work up. So when they pray to receive the Spirit they literally try to 'make themselves receive the Holy Ghost.' Or else they have a strong hunger and desire, but do not quite understand how faith works, so they wind up begging and pleading. But God is not moved by begging and pleading, but by faith. So maybe a lot of folks have a long time between their baptism and receiving the Holy Ghost because they have some faith issues that God needs to work out with them?

Re: You'd Be Proud
 

Than you, Brother Isaias.

"He that believes..." (repents) "...and is baptized..." (whose sins are remitted)
"...SHALL..." (the promise) "...be saved." (receive the Holy Spirit, which puts the
believer under "grace") (Mk. 16:16)

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"...except a man be born again, he cannot SEE the kingdom of God."
If man does not receive the revelation (POWER) from God, he will
never be able to SEE (perceive, discern, understand) God's kingdom.
God has given us the power to "see", that we may then be able to
"...CHOOSE LIFE that both you and your seed may live." But, we are
not saved by only seeing the kingdom, just as the Israelites were not
saved solely by looking upon the Promise Land without entering in and
conquering it!

"Being BORN AGAIN, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by
the WORD OF GOD, which lives and abides for ever."
That seed, of course, is the WORD OF GOD: it gives every man the power to
choose His righteousness, or walk away from it. And that is how "...faith
comes by hearing..." A man hears the Word, and it causes him to either
believe or refrain from believing. Faith alone does not "save" us, but faith
leads us to repentance and, eventually, to grace.

"Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot ENTER..."
Understand this: most men today are under mercy, and "...mercy rejoices
against judgment." So then under mercy man can never receive God's
righteous judgment; rather, [mercy] is given to withhold the judgment that
His righteousness demands! Even under the Law, when the sacrificial lamb
did withhold God's judgment for another year...or until another sacrifice...
there remained in them a remembrance of sin. But being born of the Spirit
(in the Spirit, if you will), there is no more remembrance of sin: but we have
an "...entering INTO the kingdom of God."

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If you don't believe you certainly won't get baptized. It has to be read altogether.

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"He that believes this advertisement and shows up Sunday at noon to the car lot will get a new car for free. He that doesn't believe it will be stuck with what they already have."

Those who don't bother showing up obviously didn't believe the advertisement, or at least didn't want the new, free car.

Re: You'd Be Proud
 

Agreed. I was not meaning to suggest that God's Word was in error. I was explaining that we focus on the working of God when we should be focus on the work we are to do (faith, repentance=lifestyle change, baptism). The Holy Ghost is God's part of the equation. Of course people should desire the gift of the Holy Ghost, but sometimes we must remember it is a promise to us. If our faith is right we will continue in baptism and repentance. God will do his part if we have truly done ours.