Something's Not Adding Up
 

Does anyone really think Ananias of Damascus poo-pooed his role in the church, complained about his ministry, worried that something was wrong with him, or thought God was upset with him because his only notable deed in the entire Bible was to share with Saul of Tarsus the good news of how to be saved?

Friend, have you not read how the Lord Jesus personally visited with him while in a vision and engaged him in a conversation in which the Son of God spoke no less than 92 individual words (per the KJV), while also listening to what Ananias had to say, and then addressing his concerns (See Acts 9:10-16)?

Seems to me Ananias had no such problems, complaints, worries, or concerns.

And yet here we are, vexed and overwhelmed trying to do so much for the Lord, desperate to even get Him to speak just one, single word to us...???

Something's not adding up.

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Who is being vexed?

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People I know, or have known, who've been constantly worried about not being able to hear the "voice of God" while still hammering away at trying to do, do, do as it pertains to church.

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I would have to assume, hopefully correctly, that my little sample of the Apostolic world speaks to some degree to the larger movement as a whole. As such, I would venture to say that there are a lot of people who are dissatisfied with their communion with the Lord, and are perhaps even subconsciously upset/mad at Him, that for all that they sacrifice and do for Him, that He seems distant and even silent.

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I see what you mean. The ones that most concern me though are the ones who feel that they have some sort of direct communication and revelation that is vastly superior to most other people, that most other people *just don't get it*

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I had a former pastor like that. His initials are JS.

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Super.

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People don't know how to listen to God. In fact, if one is "trying" to hear God they are not listening. Even the thought of "trying to hear God" will cause it to elude you. For you're affirming that you haven't heard or have yet to be able to hear. So, for as long as you are trying to hear from the LORD, you're not going to get much.

I believe that God speaks to us more than we realize. However, we are not trained enough to have the discipline necessary to hear Him or to realize that He is talking to us.

Here is what I was taught in a development group...

After a season of worship and prayer when you sense that you are "in the Spirit" follow these steps (contemplations should be done both before and after):

1.) Stop - Quiet your mind so that you can hear God's voice (Contemplate Habakkuk 2:1-2).
2.) Look - Look for vision as you pray - Through faith see yourself being spoken to by Jesus or being hearing from the LORD (Contemplate Hebrews 12:2).
3.) Listen - Recognize God's voice as spontaneous flowing thoughts which light upon your mind (Contemplate John 7:37-39).
4.) Write/Speak - Write down or speak out and share the spontaneous flow of impressions, thoughts, phrases, and images that come to you (Contemplate Revelation 1:10-11).

If this is done often enough, you'll soon become more familiar with the still small voice of God's Spirit that is speaking through His abiding presence in your inner man. At first, it feels silly. It can be conjumbled. But with time, you'll recognize a certain quality to a specific flow of impressions. It will be very unique. As you learn to silence your own mind, you'll begin to distinguish this still small voice with more clarity. Once you do... the adventure begins. For most, the biggest challenge is silencing the mind. It can be difficult to hear God when your own mind is just chattering away at 150 mph. You must train it. Discipline it. Silence it. Crucify it.

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A - Good thoughts.
An additional thought is that God is far more interested in reaching people, than in giving us the next great "revelation" or our next great sermon idea.
That is what most of his speaking to me has been about.

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Amen!

It has been my experience that God doesn't talk much about "doctrine" or "doctrinal revelations". It's almost as though I get the impression, "Study, my child. Study." When I come to an understanding of something in Scripture I find that it helps me hear Him more clearly and it leaves me feeling strengthened, free, and at peace. And my understanding is always growing. I've been limited in my understanding and flat out wrong at times. But those experiences are so valuable because they served as stepping stones to greater understanding. For me, and I can only speak for myself, doctrinal understanding is typically reserved for study, not revelation. Oh, don't get me wrong, a revelatory thought, word, or concept might be impressed upon the mind to stimulate study on a topic. But beware, sometimes the LORD is like a teacher who proposes the error to motivate you to correct it. So, don't take these small doctrinal impressions and build a system around them without thoroughly trying them first. That's one reason why I love forums like this one. I often throw out some crazy impression I received and hammer it out through discussion with well studied men and women, and add these experiences to my study on the matter. Many times I've been left with far more than I bargained for. lol But that's growth! Praise God! Right now Bro. Blume is the ironworker I've chosen to hammer out thoughts on the Sabbath. He has given my MUCH to contemplate in my studies. We'll see were it goes in the long term.

When it comes to sermons, this is how I received them. Most people think I'm crazy, but I could "hear" myself preaching the message in my head as though it were a recording. I could hear the inflection of my voice, the points being made, the order they were presented in, and basically... I took notes! LOL My pastor (UPCI) at the time was beside himself when he looked at my notes because they were a bubble outline with the primary point in the center and the supporting points and texts in bubbles branched out from it, and any sub-points branched out from them. I started at 12 o'clock and worked my way around the central point until I came full circle and made altar call. A bubble might have a sing word like "Sanctification", and I'd just let it flow and speak as I had heard it in my head until I exhausted it and addressed on the sub-points, then I'd move to the next. It was very free flow. I'd have a second sheet with the full verses or passages I wanted to read to the congregation with a notation on the bubble outline to refer to the verse. I would often have a 45 minute sermon on just two sheets of paper, comprised of one bubble outline and a several verses of Scripture aside from the primary passage. I know it's weird, but that's how the LORD showed me to do it in a vision. It worked so much better than trying to read through and keep my place in a traditional written out Roman Numeric outline. It also allowed me to walk away from my notes and the thoughts flowed. I'd return as they'd begin to slow down on that particular point.

Most of the Lord's speaking is in relation to me and my issues, my family, and those I know personally. Encouragement, chastening, promise, rebuke. These are felt often. These have also flowed in our house church gathering in relation to issues in a general fashion, that that has sometimes proved to be far more specific than I realized in the lives of others. Sometimes a Word of Knowledge or Word of Wisdom will flow through phrases, impressions, or "snapshot" or "short film" like visions. One day my fiancé and I prayed over some money that was lost at her work and the LORD gave me a vision of the inside of their safe! The money was there, it had just fallen down to the right between two compartments and had a stapled packet of papers, that had also fallen, covering it. The vision was specific, right down to the color of zipped up pouch it was in. And the next day, that's exactly where she found it. Though visionary in nature, I classify that as a "Word of Knowledge". God has helped me find my keys and even alerted me to call my kids at exactly the moment I was needed. It is helpful to hear from God in our personal lives regarding what we might otherwise think is day to day business.

And yes, to answer the question I'm hearing in my spirit right now, sometimes I get impressions, snapshots, and visions about people I talk to on forums. But it is far stronger when they have an actual photo of themselves as an avatar. Images of other things, symbols, family, etc. often cloud the impressions or visions.

To answer any concern, there is only one regular on this forum that I sense a rather dark impression about. I don't know what it is and it could be something around him and not him directly. But I have found that I am not at peace dealing with it. Don't know why, just is. But most here have a heart of gold. Yes, many have wacky ideas and biases. Some also enter seasons of being well and not so well. We all do from time to time. But when something is hidden that disturbs my peace, or something is unseen in the life of another, I take note. If they are actually close to me in physical proximity, I'll try to connect with them. I'll then better discern if it is hidden sin, a Pharisaical spirit, or a spirit that is simply "around" them.

But that's my experience with this sort of thing.

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I don't know why I feel impressed to share this. The Lord showed me something unique several years ago that sounds wacky, and I risk it being laughed at by posting it, but it has helped many that I've shared it with.

Much of our pain, discouragement, hesitation, guild, shame, or self-condemnation is rooted in a memory of our past. The way we choose to experience the memory of the hurt or abuse, ill timed action, failure, or sin often causes us to limp through our spiritual lives. The Lord revealed something to me in my studies regarding "the mind of Christ". Sometimes in order to get to the next level we have to revisit those painful memories. We have to see them for the damage they are causing. We have to also move into the Spirit and begin to prophetically see them through the eyes of Jesus. When slow down, silence the mind, open the heart, and begin to allow the mind of Jesus to be activated in our inner man (our spirit) we can see those things as Jesus sees them. Often our greatest failures led us to our greatest moments in Christ's eyes. Sometimes the abuse is something that has been perpetuated for generations and must be brought before the Lord and forgiven for the sake of generations to come. Like the sins He bore to the cross, we have to bear them as part of our priesthood and carry them to Him to heal and forgive...and so the terrible thing that happened to us... had to happen that we might cleanse ourselves and break the cycle. Sometimes we have to see those who have harmed us through the eyes of Jesus... and truly... forgive, pleading the blood on their account. When we have truly redefined those painful memories through the eyes of Jesus Himself, we can be set free from the guilt, shame, condemnation, and pain. One can also envision what happened, and pray for one's self. Yes, I know it sounds strange at first. But picture one of your greatest failures. Soak in the memory, and pray for yourself as you feel the mind of Christ manifest. Hear the words that Jesus is speaking through you, about you, and for you. Hear the grace, the love, the understanding. Hear... the hope. Hear how much faith He has in you. You're not defeated. That wasn't a crushing blow. See it as He sees it. And release how you have defined it all these years. I call it, Healing The Past...because I don't know what else to call it.

I don't know why I felt the impression to share that. Most will laugh at it or critique it. And that's fine. Truth can always stand up to the fires that test it. And if we're seeking to be as authentic as we can be, we should welcome criticism and trial when it comes to test what we have experienced or have come to believe. What is true will always be left standing. And any rough edges or lose ends will be smoothed out and burned away. Our understanding will ultimately be refined. In this, especially on these forums, we serve one another an eternal service. Only eternity will reveal how we've actually helped one another through from glory to glory and ultimately... to Heaven itself.

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I have been PM'd 2-3 times on here with posters who thought I knew who they were, because of what I said to them.
In the past I have hesitated to say things to people, however, when I have yielded I have never been wrong.
Now, lest anyone think I am praising myself, I am not.
I make many mistakes on my own.
God help us to listen to his voice more and our own, less.

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:thumbsup

Amen.

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I'd be tempted to be like,"Yes I know who you are and stop picking your nose." Lol jk...I wouldn't ever do that.

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Ron White:

""I was sitting on a bean bag chair, naked, eating Cheetos the other day when Robert Tilton came on TV. He's a televangelist out of Dallas.

He looked at me and said, "Are you lonely?"

Yeah.

"Have you spent half your life in bars pursuing sins of the flesh?"

This guy's good!

"Are you sitting in a bean bag chair naked eating Cheetos?"...

Yes, sir!

"Do you have the urge to get up and send me a thousand dollars?"

Ha, ha close! I thought he was talking about me there for a second!""

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lol

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:lol

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I think the ones who God has decided are allowed into His private counsel, and are given particular gifting in the Spirit, are humble enough to not make an idol out of themselves. Things which are done in secret are rewarded openly by the Father, if the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ stays where it belongs: in the face of Jesus Christ, and not on the man or woman.

If someone is masquerading as the great power of God a la Simon the Sorcerer, there is no doubt they will perish in their sin, except they repent.

On a related note, this reminds me of Balaam, who, in his pride, insisted he had some great connection to YHVH, that he could speak for him as prophet and oracle, but really, was nowhere near as spiritual as he thought he was.

Such folks need a meeting with the Angel of YHVH with sword in hand.

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For me, this is what it comes down to:

There are those who are ever learning, but not able to come to the knowledge of the truth. They may have a Doctor of Divinity degree from a prestigious seminary, they may have studied Near Eastern languages, and can translate the Bible on the fly. They know the commentary, and are considered by many to be the elite of the theologians of the world, and still be so far off from actually knowing anything that actually matters, like the Godhead, or the Gospel, or etc., that all their learning hasn't done jack for them when it comes to salvation, eternal life, and etc.

Additionally, there are those who have a form of godliness, but deny the power thereof. The seem to walk the walk, talk the talk, and from all outward appearances, seem to be the real deal, a bonafide believer in Jesus Christ. But when it comes to seeing the power of God manifest in their life, they come up short. Why? Paul wrote to the Corinthians that the Kingdom of God is not in word, but in power, and he knew there were many who were puffed up there, and when he arrived, he intended to see a demonstration of the power of the Holy Spirit in them, to find out whether they were all fluff, a bunch of talking heads who sounded spiritual, but couldn't prove beyond their yammering that the Holy Spirit was truly active and immersed into their endeavors.

Then there are those humble folks who sincerely love God, love His Word, stand for truth, and etc., but feel like they aren't as spiritual as others, because the charismata never seem to happen in and through them. It's always someone else getting used by God. They never get asked to lead, teach, preach, or what have you, because someone else is always being anointed by the Holy Spirit to do those things. They remain confused. They serve God the best they know how, they are always available to the church for whatever ministry needs a helping hand, but inwardly they doubt themselves and their relationship with the Father, because to them, He seems to play favorites.

All of this and more, but look again at Ananias. He has no particular claim to fame in the Bible, except to be the one to bring the Gospel to Paul. That may seem like small potatoes, but being the one to evangelize the greatest evangelist the world has ever seen is as important as doing anything else. If Ananias doesn't obey the Lord, what happens? Who knows?

My point is, if a person will just shutter all the negative garbage that goes through their head, and simply find the better part at the feet of Messiah, hearing His words, if they will simply cultivate a lively intimacy and devoted following to their Master, the Lord will speak with them, and one day, if they do nothing else in the Kingdom that seems to matter, if they do nothing else but hear from God, obey him, and minister to one lost sinner, like Ananias, they may end up bringing a great man or woman of God into the sheepfold.

It's all about perspective. The rat-race is alive and well in Pentecost. Martha is overburdened and complaining, nagging the Lord to make someone else do the serving for a change, jealous of the ones who don't seem to be doing anything but sitting down with Christ at His table.

Ministerial burnout is at an all-time high, if the stats are to be believed. And in my estimation, burnout only occurs when someone starts carrying a burden God didn't give to them. Many ministers around the globe can preach the rafters down, but can't befriend a lonely man on a park bench and talk to him about Jesus. I am of the opinion that the latter matters more than the former.

Martha can throw a great party. She is the host with the most. But inwardly, she's craving attention, feeling angry, and wanting to give up, because Mary is where she, Martha, knows she ought to be.

So, if we would emulate anyone, if we would "be" anyone, why not be an Ananias, who was so intimate with the Lord, that He and Jesus had an actual, lengthy dialogue. Jesus personally invited him into the throne-room and talked with him about the private counsel of God regarding the man who would go on to write most of the New Testament. When's the last time something like that happened to you?

Can it? Should it? Or is it only reserved for the special? The elite of the elect? I submit the last shall be first. It's better to be a porter in the house of the LORD than to dwell in the tents of wickedness. There are a lot of big names out there, and a lot of them are corrupt. There are also a lot of no namers who haven't gotten a single accolade for anything they are or do. Just like Jesus, their voice is not heard crying in the streets. But they likely know their Savior better than most. I would rather be that person. Wouldn't you?

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Amen, the most precious time for me is my early morning closet time. I'm purposing distilling my life down to precious essentials and making them non negotiable.

• Bible/prayer/journaling
• walking with the dog/healthy eating
• home/family
• Church/fellowship

And with the Church/fellowship, I do what I feel called to do, and what I can do with joy, I refuse to be pressured and don't care what people think or if they like it or not.

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Maybe because what we are doing isn't obedience. Yes we busy ourselves doing many things, but is it what HE has commanded and required of us?

Maybe we don't hear from God in that way because we have yet to really begin to obey, and why would He speak to us when we won't even listen and obey what He has said already?

Tear down the traditions and doctrines of man...Get back to the Word and obey THAT.

BELIEVERS SHALL...Which means UNBELIEVERS WONT or better yet they CANT because we cannot give of treasure we do not possess.

Peter said,"Such as I have give I thee.."

What do we really have?

Could it be that we can't give it because we don't possess it?

Could it be that we can fulfill a standard of behavior and dress codes but we cannot be classified as believers because we don't actually believe?

To be a believer you must obey. If you don't obey you aren't a believer. Being a believer is a active function not a passive one.

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Amen. Right on. A part of the liberty we have in Christ, is the right, even authority to say "no", and not allow another, even if well-meaning, saint, cajole, coerce, push, or nag us into doing something they likely could do for themselves, but are too lazy.

The most profound things are often the simplest. The Golden Rule is the easiest thing in the world to understand, but can seemingly take a life-time figuring out how to obey.

Too many people, those I call "Paul's 10,000 instructors in Christ" are all too willing to try and pull someone else's strings to get them to move, instead of respecting their boundaries, shutting up, and allowing the Breath of the Anointed One to be that which moves a person along in their pilgrimage toward Home.

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I agree. Obedience is all about submission. And that's an ugly word, right there. But it shouldn't be. Submitting ourselves to God and His Word is counter-carnal, and if ever a person has a hard time with submission, it's always the flesh that causes the problem.

The first pastor of the church I attended preached hard against sin, especially pride, love of money, and other iniquities of the human spirit better than anyone I ever met or heard. He didn't have to preach on standards, or holiness, or how one ought to live. The Holy Spirit would crash like thunder down around our ears, so to speak, and the church would collectively seek God for repentance, renovation of mind and spirit, and holiness without a word needing to be said.

The mission, of course, is to then take that, and make it an everyday, even when no one's looking, lifestyle of consecration. It's easy to rush to an altar after someone's preached the meat off your bones, but making an altar at home where you personally continue to divest yourself of yourself, is where the keeping power is at.

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What do you mean when you say holiness?

If I think you mean what I'm thinking I have a similar story.

But it happened with the street people who were in a Charismatic church. We use to have prayer meetings all night before Sunday morning service. What happened in those services changed everything.

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Well, under his care and shepherding, my former pastor often said that holiness begins in the heart and is first proven by the mouth, how we speak and what we say. I suppose he would define it as meaning taking on the attributes of Jesus Christ.

I hold to that view, too. He separated holiness from mere modesty. So do I. Holiness was a way of life, not limited to just one aspect of it, but covered the whole.

He preached the power of the Holy Spirit to change a hardened sinner into a humble saint. Holiness was just as much about obedience and walking away from the old life, as it was about putting on the new. Holiness involved right conduct, taking a stand for truth, taking it on the chin, suffering for it, if need be, and, perhaps hardest of all, admitting openly when failure occurred.

Of course there were the Bible dictionary definitions, but those were merely foundational. More than anything, I guess I could sum it up by saying holiness was stepping into the purifying fire of God, and coming out the other side as a vessel worthy to be used by the Lord.

I haven't found a better approach than the one he instilled in me all those years ago. Holiness was then, and I still believe now, the channel or means through which the full weight of God's unending glory may fall.

The first two-three years of the church (he was the evangelist/planter), he immersed over 200 people, with almost all also receiving the Holy Spirit, as well (some received the Holy Spirit, but wouldn't submit to being immersed, for whatever reason). I came into the faith at that point in time. It was a "revival" church, as the term is used. I never saw so many people receive the Holy Spirit, get baptized, have their demons cast out, entire families brought into the faith, and with it all, constant persecutions.

Holiness, then, also is being counted worthy to suffer shame for the name of Jesus Christ.

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Amen!

The same happened at that church where we had prayer meetings. The street people were changed inside and outside. No one ever mentioned anything to them concerning holiness, or modesty. But the prayer meetings grew, and the Sunday morning services were mind blowing. People throwing away stuff right at the altar, weeping, slobbering, and snotting enough to soak the carpet to puddles.

Thank you for sharing your testimony of your pastor.

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You're welcome. He was a bit of a bull in the china shop type of guy. He stood all of 5'4", pure Norwegian, North Dakotan stock. Served in the Navy under a former POW at the end of the Vietnam War. Went into business. Was very wealthy when God tore him loose. Then God really prospered him. He was one of the Accounting Controllers for Johnson Controls. Had more guts in him than 100 men. It was quite the education. The only end of the pool was the deep end. He swung for the fences, if you catch the baseball reference.

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this is what church should be, this is what is missing, this is what I long for, this is what my heart is breaking for.

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Sister, this is what we are, and this is what we have to always be. :thumbsup

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Why?

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There is nothing more beautiful than the Spirit of God reaching into the hearts of men and women and bringing healing, deliverance from addictions, putting marriages back together, changing lives and making them worth living.

There are people with such deep hurts and needs and God can meet those needs.

He is the answer for the longing, loneliness, and despair of the human heart.

He gives us beauty for ashes.

He gives us peace and joy.

What price many would pay just to have peace in their hearts.

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Some people take the words of Jesus in Matthew 11:28 and think Holy Ghost is the Sandman. :heeheehee

http://i.imgur.com/RNitcfC.png

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I get that. I started in a church where every Sunday night service was like an old pennycostal camp meeting. That's great.
But nothing changed in people's lives because of a lack of teaching.

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you are right, you need both.

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:tiphat :thumbsup

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ah reckon

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That will preach.
By contrast, I was raised in a great teaching church where other churches said we would go first in the rapture, (their way of saying we were dead).
But out of that church came many great saints, preachers, teachers...
And the vast majority of the youth from that church are still in the truth, today.

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"

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BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE BALANCE


Spirit & Truth

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The very first time I had witness that was in the COG in Labelle Florida in the late 70's while I was in High School, where I was Baptized in His Spirit.
I could see the Spirit moving and people would start running to the altar and weeping, snot flying confessing and repenting of sins.
I watched a drunk come in one dunk and the Spirit just hit him in his seat and this guy was as sober as a corpse and looked real freaked out.

I would see some crazy stuff under the tent when my dad and I would go listen to H. Richard Hall preach.

Does this even happen anymore? I see glimpses but not like I once did.