Defend your Faith
 

Tongues....Baptism... etc.....not standards (cause you will lose)

What if you were chosen to debate these topics? Are they necessary for salvation?

I'll start with baptism. Is there any circumstance were some one would make it across the other side with out being baptized? Or the ones that have not been baptized by a certain formula. Oh the poor souls that happened into the wrong church when at a point of searching. Why would they be held accountable for trusting the pastor of a....oh lets say Methodist church. What if it was all the church they ever got? Are you saying that they are not sincere?

Are you touting that you are the only game in town? :ernie

Have you been around PP so long and you do not know these things?

LOL. NO I am not around PP nearly enough. He is a great man.

Is that you best defense on baptism? DUNK AND RUN :ernie

No, I have errands to run. I'll be back later. :13loads

I'll bite. This is really about God's ability more than our baptism. The answer is yes.

We are the ONLY church in our city that preaches the ONLY saving message of the Apostles and yes all in those false churches are lost no matter how sincere they are. Paul said "If our gospel be hid it is hid to them that are lost"2Cor. 4:3

The gospel meaning the truth I suppose?

If a person in the hour of spritual need wonders into a.......oh lets say Baptist church and follows the leading of the Pastor why would he be held accountable?

If a person is really sincere God will send him a preacher preaching truth the Book of Acts gives those examples. Try the Eunuch in the desert.

OK, so those who are genuinely sincere have OP connections?

"Is there any circumstance ..."

Again I ask, IS God able?

You see this is one thing I cannot seem to defend very well. Its the fact that there is only a few sincere people in this world. And those and only those are the ones who have made it to the right church. You can't even say Pentecostal church anymore because some of those are now supporting TV.

AKA Deltaguitars church. So now we are narrowed even more.

ahh the infamous "loop hole"

yet another looking for what they can get away with and still make heaven.

tightrope walkers cant get good life insurance.

The genuinely sincere have connections with God who will send them a Jesus name preacher or saint.

I am not personally looking for a loophole. I have already experienced. Thank you Jesus.

But what about the others? Eply says you'll find a Jesus name preacher. But it seems that millions haven't. Does that make them not sincere?

Loophole? Is there a back door? Ferd, very church has them... children and those with diminished mental capacity etc. CAN GOD SAVE THEM?

Is he not bound by his word?

If he deems it so, can God see a sincere heart that loves him and save through his work on the cross in spite of imperfect understanding on the part of the believer??

Our obligation is to tell the things that we find in the Word. I long ago left the death-bed confessions and what-ifs, and loopholes to the Lord.

I just preach the Gospel and it's proper response as given in the Word. Beyond that, who am I to judge the eternal destination of a soul?

Kutless, even if one believed that a person was saved at confession and/or repentance, what happens to a truly retarded or handicapped person?

The bottom line is that JESUS is the only Saviour of the world. He will judge all things, not me. Thank God!

A while back my friend Coonskinner relayed a powerful thought to me. There are some things God will not share with anyone - even me. He won't share the firstfruits, His glory, or His vengeance.

I like that thought. God is a merciful and JUST God.

I don't see this a s a "loophole" at all,
it speaks to me about the sovereignty of God, especially in regards to those who love Jesus but have a different experience than our own.

PP great words.. I have also recorded what Coonskinner told you. It speaks volumes to me.

But I do have another question. While this is satifactory to you and I based of experiential evidence, are we not also expected to give a theological answer as well? Meaning...the use of scripture and logic?

Don't mean to sound harsh but saying "I'm not the judge" is hardly much of a defense of our doctrine. In some ways it also allows for us to skirt right around the issue all together.

Our theology is sound.

The proper response to the Gospel is found in Acts 2:38. That should satisfy anyone's questions.

if you don't want to talk about it just say so brother.

LOL

I will respond this evening okay?

Paul wrote this...
Galations 1
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

There was a perverted gospel being preached in Paul's Day and he said...."Let them be accursed"... if you use your anology in your question you would have to justify...Mormons....and many other sects as being accepted by God...

so then lets reverse the question so to speak....who is going to hell then? Which I know how you will answer which in turn puts limitations on God.

What if I changed my analogy to include only KLV Bible teaching sects?

bump

Okay Kutless, IMO, there may be some circumstances where a person who has not followed what we consider the biblical plan of salvation would not be held accountable.

1. A child.
2. A dumb (literally) person.
3. A mentally handicapped person.

I do not know how God will handle those who have never heard of a bible or the Name of Jesus. I do know what Acts 17:30-31 says.

But none of these examples are reason for any American to evade following Acts 2:38. We all have access to the Word.

That is what the White Throne is for. We preach the ONLY saving message and He does the eternal judging.

Not true. IN order to defend the doctrine its a must to condemn the likes os Mother Theresa, Billy Graham etc etc to the lake of fire. Our doctrine gives no room for there salvation.

And if that is the way it is then quite sneaking around the "God is the Judge" cop out.

Ephesian 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints

John 4:23-24 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.


John 8:31-32 If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

point?

They have had every oppurtunity to know the Word as we know it.... it is their choice regardless of how "good" they may be to do with it as we all have done...

Being Good never bought anybody a ticket to heaven.... but knowing HIS Word has..

Those you mention are not babies or mentally handicapped are they?

They are lost. God will judge them that is a fact NOT a dodge.

I'll bite. They're probably going to hell.

That's why Acts 2:38 believers are supposed to have a BURDEN for the lost. The 'lost' includes the wild heathen and those who have begun a sincere search for truth but have been turned astray by false doctrine.

Of course, people who have been told/convinced that they are saved contradictory to Acts 2:38 are harder to reach. Nobody likes to be shown they've been sold a bill of goods.

I've heard teaching that addressed some of the 'what ifs' that people have that is pertinent. The unreached indigenous peoples of Papua New Guinea were not even known to exist until this century. How could a merciful God judge them, and other heathen tribes like them, who never even had a chance to hear the gospel? The answer is that all men have God's word written in their hearts. We call it a conscience. Such peoples will be judged according to how they responded to their conscience.

I disagree. In a sense it is a dodge simply because we hold onto the "judge not lest ye..........

But in order to defend the doctrine there is no way around saying this one or that one is hellbound.


said in.......a straightline

You are not correct babies and mentally handicapped folks have no free will to excercise that is the difference.

Great Point.. they are bound by their situation...

God is just he judges mankind according to their decisions if there can be no decision I do not believe in the nature of God He would eternally punish those who had NO choice.

I'm sorry for the confusion...I did not intend to insinuate anything about babies or the mentally challenged. Sorry.

Then we misunderstood each other. I do not believe anyone is saved in this dispensation without obey Acts 2:38.

Pastor Epley, what I am trying to say is that according to our doctrine (ourside of children and mentally challenged) if you have not obeyed Acts 2:38 and spoke in tongues you are going to Hell. There is no way around it.

But all the while instead of saying that we skirt around the core and fluff it up to say "OH I'm not the Judge, God is fair blah blah blah"

Which is true. But do we believe that there might be a chance that someone(outside of kids and mentally challenged)that has not followed Acts 2:38 will make it to Heaven? In our doctrine there is no room for that.

You have to choices: 1. Hope like crazy you go to the right church

2. Go to Hell

LOL!

At first I thought you were telling bro epley to "Go to hell"!!

Yes there is a chance - absolutely. No matter what stripe Christian you are - you are reading AND INTERPRETING scripture as you see it. The humility of Christians will stop them from damning each and every one who disagrees with him. Aorrogance is not compatible with Christianity.