Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Re: Hank Handergraaff joins a cult
 

*Hanegraaff

Re: Hank Handergraaff joins a cult
 

Since when are the Greek Orthodox considered a cult?

Re: Hank Handergraaff joins a cult
 

By the criteria he once used to define a cult, they are. He now believes in the power of the Eucharist and that Mary intercedes for us.

Re: Hank Handergraaff joins a cult
 

I had a Greek Orthodox friend. He explained that when it comes to the intercession of the Saints it isn't that the believer "prays to the saint". First, they believe that the body of Christ is a single entity that includes both the living and the dead, and that the dead are very much interested in and well aware of what is happening to the body on earth. And some saints have specific interests that are dear to their hearts. And so living believers often implore their prayers as they would a priest, pastor, or other believer.

However, deceased human beings are not all knowing. And so, they believe that those who are elevated to this level of "sainthood" have experienced "glorification". This is a form of "theosis" wherein the saint is partaking in the divine nature to such a degree they are essentially sharing a type of oneness with God. It is due to this divine union that the Saints can "hear" the prayers or petitions of the living. In essence, when praying to a Saint, the Greek Orthodox sees it as praying to the "Divine nature abiding within the Saint". And so the Saint is merely a conduit to reaching and receiving the powers of God Himself. The individual "Saint" cannot take any true credit or glory.

Now, when my friend explained that to me I examined the Scriptures. Some of this is biblical and some of it isn't. Here's what I found...

First: While the Bible does show the saints in Heaven concerned with the body on earth, and while they also pray for the body on earth, NOWHERE are they shown to receive prayers or petitions from the living. And NOWHERE do we see any miracle or healing attributing to a "Glorified Saint" in Scripture.

Second: I was surprised to see a Scriptural basis for "theosis" or "divine union". However, it isn't quite like what the Greek Orthodox understanding is. When one receives the baptism of the Holy Spirit the Holy Spirit comes to abide in the believer. Through this the believer is said to be in Christ and Christ in the believer. In the Epistles of Peter, Peter mentions this partaking in the divine nature. In I Corinthians, Paul also indicates that whosoever is joined to the Lord is "one spirit" with Him. Christ affirmed that when we receive the Holy Spirit we can know that in that day we shall understand that "I am in my Father, ye in me, and I in you". Our "oneness" is very much like Christ's own oneness with the Father. A mutual abiding and partaking of nature. It is through this union that one is sanctified, puts on the mind of Christ, lives and walks in the Spirit, and it is also through this union that the spiritual gifts flow. And yes, it is through this union that the born again saint of God (every one of us) will experience Glorification after Christ's return that God might be "all in all". This theosis can be experienced on such a level that one partakes in glorification while alive on earth, to the point that one's very identity is tied up in Christ Jesus to the point that one can honestly say that, "I am crucified with Christ, and yet I live. Not I, but Christ who lives within me." However, NOWHERE do we see this being experienced by the dead who dispense miracles based on petition. Theosis is experienced by the living born again believer and we are free to experience this now. Death terminates one's ability to intercede for another. And no one on the other side is to be prayed to or petitioned but God in Christ.

It really is a big and inspiring theological topic. But I'm sad to say that the Bible doesn't support the Greek Orthodox position on it.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

This is nothing really. The entire Evangelical movement is a cult. They reject the Oneness of God and the new birth. They rail against holiness without ceasing. He just went from one cult to another.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

This in itself is cultic "immortal soul" doctrine that denies the gospel of Jesus Christ. The dead (to them) are never really dead. They are always alive!

The "Apostolic" movement was captured by Evangelicals long ago.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I think he just wants a funny hat. :lol

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

The Greek Orthodox / Eastern Orthodox Church is not a cult though.

If he implied it as so once before, this development would be ironic.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I believe the Greek Orthodox church is severely wrong., but to call it a cult like one would the JW's or Mormons is a bit offkey.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I agree. The Greek Orthodox aren't a cult. They are a historic church. Wayward, but historic.

Weren't they allegedly founded by the Apostle Mark?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Who cares? Not me!:thumbsup:highfive

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

They embrace extra-biblical revelation as being on par with scripture. They believe Christ is brought down and crucified at every mass. They teach salvation by grace plus works. Cult.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Based on a few of these definitions, we're all part of a cult. :heeheehee

Definition of cult

1: formal religious veneration; worship

2: a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also its body of adherents •the cult of Apollo

3: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see spurious 2); also its body of adherents •the voodoo cult •a satanic cult

4: a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator •health cults

5a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book) •criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrity; especially such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
b: the object of such devotion
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion •the singer's cult of fans •The film has a cult following.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Severe error.

Do we know what CULT actually means?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Ok. To keep this discussion in focus, I will stop using the term "cult" and start saying "sub-Christian sect". The RCC and EOC are sub-Christian sects.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

If we were discussing these adherents in the context of being the victim of Muslim terrorists, we would simply refer to them as Christians.

I like consistency.

I call them Christians.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Fine. When the media labels some Klan church a "Christian", are we going to allow that title to be ascribed to them without even as much a clearing our throats?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

My question is, when was Hank ever not in a cult? :heeheehee

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

:highfive

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Exactly.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

:angry1:grumpy:crazy

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I'm an individual with relatives in the Eastern Orthodox, RCC, and Sede Vacante church. I can tell you without batting an eye, that they wouldn't call you a Christian. You and I are called Heterodox, and Protestants. Calling them Christians when discussing politics is mainly done to get the United States' Churchanity on board to read the newspaper.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I see you're using icons to reply to Mike.

Could you be more specific?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Are they Eastern Orthodox Icons?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

And even I admit that when ISIS massacres thousands of non-Apostolic "Christians", I consider persecution for Christ's sake.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

How do your sedevacantist relatives explain the continuing validity of their sacraments? Seems they put themselves in the same position of "schismatic Byzantines"? I never could follow their reasoning, seems inconsistent?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I carefully chose those icons because they speak for themselves!

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

It's not over till the grumpy old man ( I guess that's you) becomes crazy?

OK.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

They hold to Pope Pius XII being the last vicar of Christ. Therefore they continue to have the sacraments through Sedevacanti priests. Still have the pre-Vatican II liturgy. I can't explain their arguments of defense, due to the fact that I was never a Sedevacantist. I was what is called a cradle Catholic. I'm still trying to figure out how both my God parents were Jews?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Not trying to make an issue, but what if they were Mormons getting killed by CIA black ops, I mean ISIS?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

It would mean the intel community crossed some wires somewhere (LOTS of federal LEO and intel guys are Mormon).

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

That is very true. :nod

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Here is Dr Gregory Hesse giving his explanation of the legitimacy of the old order sacraments.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gPX...efeatModernism

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Go to 17:03 to 18:20 to hear what this knucklehead has to say about baptism. :heeheehee

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I'm glad my baptism is NOT recognized by the RCC.

:heeheehee

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

So my question is how are the Evangelical believers taking this? Wasn't he supposed to be the chief of the Apologists?

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

I haven't been able to fund much. A couple websites are lamenting his apostasy, but the big names seem to be quiet.

I imagine they will just quietly move on.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Honestly, don't think he's been that big in a while.

Re: Hank Hanergraaff joins a cult
 

Well, American history is littered with "Christians" who either actively supported or passively allowed slavery, the failure of Reconstruction, Jim Crow, and all the evil that spawned from "Christians" who hardly said a mumbling word about their world...


I get your point, but I hope you get mine.