Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

It’s very sad to see how institutionalized our church services have become. Our church usually has holds corporate prayer meetings once a week, and I never fail hearing the same phrases, “God, send us people so we can minister to them,” and “ God, let a fire begin in our city." Last week our pastor and others mentioned that in our prayer circle of 15 individuals. As I stood there, God gave me a word to say, but I held back because I needed more confirmation. My prayer has always been, “God, don’t let me mistake my thoughts as your words.” As we kneeled to pray, God cleared my mind and gave me scripture out of nowhere, and there I received confirmation. As I concluded our prayer meeting, my pastor asked if I had anything to say. I began to speak and say:

God gave me a word and I want to start off with the scripture He gave me as I knelt. I read - Matthew 9:38, Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.” We want our church to grow, and you have asked God to send you people so you can witness to them. However, if you read through the scriptures, Jesus sent his apostles in pairs to proclaim Jesus. We also read where Jesus said in Mark 16;15 - “go into the world and preach the gospel to every creature.” We also read in the bible where the women swept the kitchen looking for that ONE coin (soul). It has never been God’s will to send people to us. He didn’t save us to bring people to us, rather, he saved us and told us to “GO” to the people. You must go out and reach for the sinner rather than them coming to you, which is what you desire. You ask for a fire, but the size of the fire will only be determined by the amount of fuel you contribute.

After speaking that, it became silent and the pastor said we accept that, and thereafter said, “anyways, let end this meeting.” People like hearing themselves speak about how much they want to accomplish for God’s kingdom, but it’s all talk. They’ve become engulfed in this dogma and are simply satisfied talking about it. You ask you know not what. People think that they’re advancing in God’s kingdom, but if you could see with your spiritual eyes, you would realize that they're just surviving rather then advancing. They can’t notice the difference!


I would like your input on the following. I remember God have me something, and I believe I know what it signifies. Nevertheless, your input and prayers would be appreciated.

I stood on a balcony in a room and overlooked the room. Below me laid a deceased women in a casket, and surrounding her casket were a few hundred men wearing suits, and some were weeping. A voice then spoke to me and said, “these are religious men.” All of a sudden the women and the casket disappeared from the center of the room below me and reappeared on the balcony near me, positioned upward at an angle. The casket was open and I could see the dead women. I then began to raise my hands and call on God, and breath entered the dead women and she began to revive.”


Only that was given to me. I’ve asked God about that situation, but I’m still unsure, mainly due to certain situations. What saith the forum?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

This is what I feel, and maybe its just for me and not for you . . .

It's not our job to change other people, we need to change ourselves, we need to pray, fast, seek God, and live a consecrated and separated life so that God can set us ablaze and use us as an unmarred channel for his Spirit to flow thru so he can minister thru us to the world.

Don't worry about what others are doing, set yourself on fire.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Amanah,


I wasn't worrying about them. They're adults and will be responsible for their own actions. However, if God tells me to say something, the only way to prevent me from speaking it is by killing me.

That being said, I believe God still speaks to his people with correction.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

BW, are you in a leadership position in your church?

I feel that unless you are the Pastor, or a church leader, that is not appropriate to correct others, unless they are someone you have a close relationship with

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Amanah,

There are 5 apostolics, strangers to each-other, and they're in an elevator.

Four of those apostolics are pastors. One pastor accidentally and unknowingly presses the "stop elevator button" with his leg, and the elevator stops. The four pastors begin to call out to God. The pastors tell God, "please, make this elevator operable again. God, we believe you can do it! Make this elevator run again."

God then speaks to the non-pastor and tells him to tell the pastors, "you are in this position because one of you pressed the "stop" button in this elevator. If you want this elevator to function again, pull out the "stop button" so the elevator can turn on."


This individual who is a non-pastor, where did he fail God by delivering the message that corrected the error and made the elevator to function again?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite answered and said, I am young, and ye are very old; wherefore I was afraid, and durst not shew you mine opinion. I said, Days should speak, and multitude of years should teach wisdom. But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. Therefore I said, Hearken to me; I also will shew mine opinion. Behold, I waited for your words; I gave ear to your reasons, whilst ye searched out what to say.
Job 32:6..-‬8.., ‬

It is ALWAYS appropriate to speak the Word of the Lord and not only speak but to obey it.

The words "send forth" in the scripture talking about sending laborers into the harvest is actually the same Greek word used when saying that believers will "cast out" devil's...There is a urgency and a more violent connotation that we do not get. It's not Jesus bending down and playfully shooing us into the fields as he would playfully with a child....

The word has always been GO!

Something I've noticed that is disturbing from people is the tendency to excuse disobedience to the Word and when you bring their attention to it they can make all sorts of arguments or deflect..."Where are those few sheep? I know the naughtiness of your heart...."

But yet your heart cries out,"IS THERE NOT A CAUSE???? WHO WILL WIPE THIS ABOMINATION FROM THE FACE OF ISRAEL???!!!"

As long as we put the blame on God for not sending us people we don't have to take responsibility....That's what it comes down to. We don't want to have responsibility...We want to be spoon fed...We don't want to work...We don't want to get our hands dirty...We want to show up for the pep rally and skip the game.

Remember when you are taken to task for speaking out of place that it is HIS Word you are reading. His Word must be heeded and obeyed no matter who delivers it.

The Word and the Spirit agree...You cant ignore the written Word and expect God to give you a different Word because you feel like ignoring what is written.

It's like a child playing "divide and conquer" with his parents playing one side against the other saying,"Well mommy said this but I'll see what daddy says."

You can't do that with the Word and the Spirit...They are in agreement.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

So you are out there doing the very thing God told the prayer group to get doing, right?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Why would you think any different?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Because it's a way to transfer guilt and the feeling of responsibility back onto whoever is rocking the boat while not acknowledging what you have said. It's usually a pride thing.

Now I'm not accusing Easias of being prideful or dodging responsibility. I'm sure he just wants to make sure you aren't holding others to a standard you aren't toeing the line on yourself.

That being said...I've been hit with that from those I KNOW are doing absolutely nothing.

The thing is that even if you WEREN'T doing anything you were preaching to others, that doesn't absolve the hearer from the obligation to obey the Word....It's not your word....It's HIS.

Let's just all do the right thing and love people, fight the devil, win souls and strengthen and support each other.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

How would I know? I do know lots of people complain about others not doing things they themselves aren't doing. So... your answer is that you are evangelizing people outside of the church?

So, what do you do? Open air.ministry? One-on-one? Tracts? Nursing homes? What are you engaged in, and what have you found effective?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Actually, that's pretty much what you did there.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Personally I feel the most effective way to evangelize is to market a line of pepper sauce called,"If you think THIS is hot...." and offer free taste tests along with a Bible study.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

BW is starting a church?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Esaias,

Sorry for the late response. I was out-of-state and returned yesterday evening. What is open air ministry?

Here are a few methods I find effective.

• I have business card type tracts that I hand out when meeting people. It basically asks the reader if they're in need of emotional or physical healing (it has all my contact information).

• When God speaks to me about people's personal life, I walk up to the person and tell them. That usually gets their attention really quick.

I don't focus on a certain method. I just live life and allow God to use me anywhere. There really isn't a science to it. It's all about opening your mouth, and your willingness to open your mouth.

One of my hobbies is target shooting, and I do own a lot of firearms. Long time ago I would find myself sparking up conversations with strangers regarding firearms. Then one day God convicted me by telling me, you talk more about guns than you do about me. Yikes! That was a slap on the face that I deserved.

If you're honest with yourself, you'll notice that it's so easy to spark up conversations with strangers about hobbies, etc. However, when it comes to witnessing about God to strangers, we think there's some type of science that's involved in witnessing to strangers. That's how excuses begin. If it was so simple to speak to someone about food or cars, all you need to do is transition that mentality to witnessing.

However, people don't because they're full of excuses. Have you ever been happy over one of your accomplishments and told everyone you know?

It was simple to tell everyone because you were proud of your accomplishments.

How simple it is to talk about something that interest us, yet so difficult to speak with strangers about a God whom we profess to love.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Good post. However, I would add that a lot of Christians fail to witness but not because they don't love God, but rather because they expect push back, and aren't prepared or don't know how to respond to it.

Also, witnessing is often presented to people as some kind of advanced theological debating exercise, and many are intimidated by that, and thinking that's what witnessing involves, shy away from it.

Personal witnessing, however, isn't quite the same as the work of an evangelist.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Esaias,

With all due respect, who cares about the push-back. We're not in this to feel some type of "emotional high" because there was no resistance or push-back.

Of course we're going to encounter resistance or push-back. However, that's not our problem. We've been instructed to spread the gospel, regardless of what we might encounter.

If I received a four letter word from someone not wanting to hear me, I just do a Matthew 10:14 and keep walking.

We do have to possess basic information about what we're preaching. And if they choose debate, such as you mentioned earlier, that's even better.

Use that as a tool to set-up a bible study with them, and when you get home, study your butt off in preparation for that bible study.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

You misunderstand me. I am saying many believers expect push back, not "four letter words" but an attempted debate for which many are ill-prepared (they think) to answer.

Also, many have been inadvertently led to place God in a "special" category of their lives, and thus talking about God is a "special thing" and THUS not a normal everyday thing (like one's hobbies, for example). Nobody.likes to be "THAT guy" who seems odd or weird. Many only hear or speak about the things of God in a religious setting (church service or Bible study), replete with special "preacher voice" or that affected religious tone.

It IS kind of weird to meet someone at the tire shop for example and blurt out "Hi! Have you been born again?" People feel weird talking like that. They feel essentially like a pesky used car salesman.

I've never met a born again Christian who didn't WANT to be a better witness. I've met PLENTY though who didn't know how to do it, and who have been hindered by a church culture that implies "Jesus on Sunday" and makes religion something OTHER than what you do 24/7 anyway.

Do people make excuses? Sure. The 80/20 principle doesn't seem to be restricted to the heathens. BUT, browbeating people and trying to guilt the pew warmer into witnessing more isn't necessarily the most effective way to get people involved.

Which is why I asked about "what are you doing". It's because I believe it is highly beneficial for people to share what they do, as encouragement to others.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

https://cdn.meme.am/instances/68105349.jpg

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/cd/cdc35...c0bc8e5f48.jpg

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

:slaphappy

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

We just have to recognize that it's the message that's sacred and not our methods.

I don't pass out tracts but I'm certainly not against it I'd it's done correctly. My MIL does it almost so that she can put notches on her belt. She's the type that will leave a tract instead of a tip.*shudders*

Yesterday, pastor preached from John 10:9 about Jesus saying, "I am the door...."

Later on last night something occured to me,"He is the door which means, I am not."

I think many times we set up our own door in front of Christ's door and we only open ours at certain times to let others through instead of being open at all times to point the way to Him.

No, I'm not a theological expert. I just try and read the Bible as written an understand it the best I can at face value. Most people you run into aren't wanting to argue theology, they are looking for a practical application of a practical, real Savior.

I just try and see the things in peoples lives where they are looking for or need help and approach them on the basis of how Jesus can help them and not demand they jump through hoops for it.

Whether they need healing, deliverance, encouragement, provision, peace, comfort...Whatever...I mean freely we have received, freely give right?

Also, remember when Jesus said that when someone asks for our coat to give them our cloak as well? Or if we are compelled to go one mile to go two?

Until recently I have never put that into the view of ministry....But isn't that what God does for us? He is more than enough...How many times has He provided in ways more than what we have asked for?

How can we incorporate that into our ministry with people we meet on a day to day basis? I'm looking for more ideas.

The business card idea is awesome in my opinion and I'd love to hear more about it and how it has been working out for you.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

:yourock

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

People tend to be too distracted by their own personal hells they are currently experiencing to be effectively approached with the concept of eternal punishment.

There comes a point to where you just get numb...It's like no matter how bad it gets you feel like you can't fight against it...You're powerless. Someone coming along informing you that,"You need Jesus or you're going to hell." ...What goes through their mind when hearing that is,"Tell Him to take a number."

When ministering, Christ met the NEEDS of the people...He didn't threaten them....

Look at how it was noises abroad in scripture about the good deeds He did....notice that they weren't running through town screaming that, "This guy told me I was gonna burn of I didn't repent!!!!"

Now look...I'm accusing no one of doing that ok?

What I'm saying is that of you want word to spread like wildfire do what He did.

Find those oppressed by the devil and set em free....And then they go get their friends...Who get their friends and if you teach them that they have the same authority upon receiving the HG they won't HAVE to bring them to you....They will be doing it themselves in Jesus name!

Beforeyou know it you can have a army of new converts not indoctrinated by tradition that don't have to be untaught...They will spiritually reproduce after their own kind which will be that crazy out of the box kinda faith where they believe that there is nothing God can't do and there are no limitations to where and when He will do it.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

My approach is completely different. As I stated in this thread, many have become religiously institutionalized. The staff within my church including the pastor, they always tend to crank up the volume and yell over the pulpit every moment available. They actually ran off a family because the music and preaching volume was too loud. I’m assuming my church believes everything must be loud within a church service?

My pastor once asked me why don’t I worship out loud by yelling, etc. He basically conveyed that the volume of my voice displays the intensity of my worship, technically. I said, “really?” I then asked him, “In 1 Samuel 1: 12-14, the bible reads that Hannah prayed with all her heart, silently. Her lips moved, but no sound was heard. Are you telling me that Hannah didn’t pray with all her heart because she didn’t lift up her voice? Was the bible lying when it states that Hannah prayed with all her heart while being silent? Is it possible to pray and worship with all your heart while remaining silent.” Guess what? I didn’t receive response from my pastor.


I generally notice I seems to keep my prayers and worship quiet, somewhat in whisper tones. However, I noticed that in these instances I have felt God in a mighty ways. I feel this inner buildup and a strong presence of God, and at that time I've periodically risen my voice. I don’t raise my voice to satisfy anyone’s minuscule thinking about what is classified as “worshiping/praying with your whole heart.”

Also, I never walked up to someone and said, “hi, do you know you’re going to hell? lol….. My approach is much different. I’ve always addressed the “inner-man” of an individual. Too many people have preached about hell. The reality is, many will be there. But instead of reaching your brain with a “hell” message, I want to reach the depth of your heart with with a personalized message from god. This will have a greater effect than “your going to hell to dance with your father, the devil!!!! LOLOLOL"

I was once driving on the freeway, praying, and god spoke to me. He said, “my people are indoctrinated with the faith of this world.”

The faith of this world places limitations on God’s power. The faith of this world places boundaries. The faith of this world will tell you it CAN happen. Having the mentality of “it can happen” will always keep you in a state of “possibly receiving.” Yet the bible reads, "But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea that is driven and tossed by the wind. Such people should not expect to receive anything from the Lord.”


In all honesty, are you asking in faith when you believe God can do it? There’s a difference between “CAN” and “WILL.” Believing that god CAN heal you will not necessarily get you “healed."


In my teenage years I ran from God, and many people pleaded that I return and said that God had a plan for me. I blew them off and lived for the world, not knowing a few days down the road, in my rebelliousness, I would be hospitalized with Acute Kidney Failure. My kidneys were starting to fail quickly and my three doctors were talking about surgery to start dialysis on the third day of hospitalization. I distinctively remember this stranger lady walking into my room, grabbing my hand, and she began weeping and said “God loves you.” I then began weeping. That day a brethren came to visit me in the hospital and I gave my life back to God. That morning the doctors ran more tests. They came to me in an amazement and said they didn’t know what happened, but my kidney function was returning to “normal.” I was discharged two days later with working kidneys.


I’ve had doctors who have told me that I had an enlarged aorta while in the E.R. They quickly took me to the CAT Scan machine to find out why! I called on God while laying on the table in front of the doctors. They didn’t know why after the scan that my aorta was no longer enlarged. I’ve also been told in my life that my left atrium was enlarged after an echo cardiogram test, and after calling on god, it was no longer enlarged in another echo cardiogram follow-up. In 2012 they performed an MRI of my brain and they found lesions. They reran the test for further diagnosing and the lesions were gone. IN 2012 I was hospitalized with elevated troponin levels (signifies a heart attack). I felt pressure in my chest and vibrations, and I was taken to the hospital. I was admitted and they performed a coronary angio. I was hospitalized for 5 days. The doctors said my heart was healthy, no blockages, and they didn’t understand what had happened with me. This happened twice, in 2012 and 2014. Last year I started seeing zigzags and flashing lights. I was taken to the E.R. and they rushed me to the back under the assumption that I was having a stroke. After many tests, they couldn’t understand what had happened. All I know is God is a healer, and he’s the same yesterday, today and forever.

I’m tired of hearing people say they want revival and just sit on their lazy butt. Revival isn’t a 3 day weekend church event where you crank up the music after inviting an evangelist. Revival is a mindset. Revival is making something important AGAIN. Revival is making something we once valued important AGAIN. I’ve said over the pulpit before and I’ll say it again. God will not put babies in a dying mother’s womb! If your church isn't growing, you're near half way dead.

But someone people just don't care! They're stained hearing themselves speak with how many people they want to win. All talk and no action.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

I got a wristband once that had WWJD written on it... will that count?

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Yeah. I totally get the frustration with the, "The louder it is the more annointed it is" mindset.

When I was younger I had a strong hunger for God that wasn't being net by volume...So I'd get by myself in a darkened Sunday school office and just let God speak. I think your approach is pretty awesome...It's what I try to do as well. I wasn't trying to come across like I was accusing you of doing that...I was just making a point of how some behave and think.

God has been dealing with me on how to pray for others too....It's a interesting technique and it may have better results. I'll post more on the idea later.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

In regards to the parts of your post I quoted here my personal experience having grown up in the religious culture where loudness and intensity of ones voice in prayer or praise and worship was very important to many years later being in a religious culture that values the word over emotion my most interesting observation is that I have seen an equal amount of healings, deliverance, God changing lives, etc in both. I also have observed the same amount of human duplicity, moral failure, envy, strife, cheating, lying ,etc, etc in both. God is God and what he does in ones life is in no way connected to the loudness of ones prayers or worship but to the sincerity of ones heart and supplication to him.

Several years ago a AFF member was visiting Nashville on business and we got to meet. He attended a church where it was 100 mph all the time when it came to church and worship. He related a story of one time being in the choir and quietly enjoying the presence of God and communing with Him while 99.9% of the other folks where going nuts "shouting", running, etc and his Pastor's wife came up to him and pretty much rebuked him because he was not juking and jiving with everybody else. I feel sorry for folks who don't understand and experience the quiet but powerful times with God and judge peoples spirituality by how loud and wildly they pray and worship.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

I feel sorry for folks who don't understand and experience the LOUD and powerful times with God ALSO and (who) judge people's spirituality NEGATIVELY by how loud and boisterous they get in prayer and worship.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Of course you totally missed my point. I don't judge anybody's spirituality by how loud or boisterous they worship. I am just saying they are not any more spiritual than those who do not do that and that they don't enjoy God's blessings, healing, strengthening, etc any more than those that don't.

In the old time Pentecost I was raised in the idea was that God blessed, healed, delivered, etc pretty much 100% of the time in atmospheres of intense emotional, loud, boistrous worship. My point is that my life experience has shown me that I see an equal number of blessings, healings, etc in churches that don't engage in that and I believe it is because God doesn't need a bunch of people screaming and jumping up and down for him to operate or hear prayers.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

"Of course you missed my point". That's the new meme nowadays which actually means "Hey, you don't agree with me and didn't affirm my point."

I got your point, understood it perfectly. And I just simply responded with a counter point. Since I didn't just "yessirreebobdoody" and high five you but instead offered another view of things you took it personal, as if I said anything about YOU.

Why people like you always take a contrary opinion as if it were some kind of personal attack I'll never understand. Must be the over inflated ego and smug sense of self importance that comes with moving on from the backwaters of old time Pentecost.

Bunch of people screaming and jumping up and down? And you "don't judge anyone's spirituality"?

Yeah, right.

Whatever, Hoss.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

I just want to go on record and state that I feel sorry for both.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

We appreciate you, Houston!

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

there is nothing wrong with fervent prayer

ADJECTIVE
having or displaying a passionate intensity:
synonyms: impassioned · passionate · intense · vehement · ardent · sincere · [more]
hot, burning, or glowing.

And if I had disdain for my pastor and church I would either pray thru it or move on.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

:yourock

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Correct...There is NOTHING wrong with fervent prayer....However there IS something wrong with vain repetition word salad and to really top things off, throw in some false tongues that seem to pop up and drown out or compete with any real tongues that manifest and is not stopped.

I am NOT against shouting and getting loud. In the church I grew up in however, anytime God would attempt to move us anywhere deeper...Such as intercession,travail, we once had a dear country tone deaf lady break out into beautiful singing in tongues with perfect pitch, amazing range and vibrato and that got shut down but the person with the false tongues that always felt they had to compete. That type of thing was never addressed because it was a family church and the pastor didn't want to make waves. Before you attempt to crucify me over that comment, yes it's true because I went to him in love and asked why he let it continue and behind closed doors he admitted he knew it was wrong and expressed frustration that it was going on but just hemmed and hawed about doing anything.

When that dear lady began to sing I had been going through major depression for months...I was just a kid...I couldn't remember the last time I had felt His presence and when she started singing it just washed over me like a wave...I bowed my head weeping....Only to have that moment ruined by false tongues....See the spirit is subject to the prophet and when that dude started up everyone else would usually kinda back off and let him take the stage till he ran out of steam.

Do that's why I just sought God on my own in quiet places...I yearned for Him to speak to me and in those quiet places He did. I wasn't satisfied to just take the scraps that I was able to glean during service...I had to seek Him on my own and I learned that God was much more interested in speaking to me than He was wanting me to fill the air with nonstop words.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Jedi, my desire would never be to tear you down, and yes it is up to the leadership to have order in the service. I'm happy for the relationship you have with God and for all he is doing in your life.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

I am enjoying your input brother. Sometimes, we have to use different things to start a conversation with people. If we talk about something that is interesting to people, it gets their attention and trust - your example of the guns. I think it is better to use something like that and then bring in the gospel as the Lord leads instead of just start talking about God. It can turn sinners off. We have to use wisdom. Any church would be glad to have a soul winner like you. Keep up the good work. I agree with "Go". They don't always come to us but He commanded us to go to them. I am not a good "goer", my fault, not God's. My husband can talk to anyone but I am more reserved and don't normally strike up a conversation with strangers but people maybe going to Hell because I don't.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Sis, no one's going to hell because you don't speak up. Each and every person will be held accountable and judged by God for their own actions. Sin is what condemns a person to hell, not you.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

Every person must be persuaded of their own calling in the Lord. God works through people, just as He made them, and remade them, in Christ. He doesn't circumnavigate His people. The Body of Christ is the vessel the Lord has chosen.

Each member of the Body will have different callings, abilities, talents, and personalities, that can all be fitly joined together into a holy habitation, provided the love required to do so is present.

If I love a brother in the Lord, I will not unfairly put expectations and demands upon him to be or become something he is not. I will allow the Lord to address any changes He expects of the brother. And honestly, until the Lord effects the change, the brother is remiss to try and change himself all by himself, just to meet someone else's expectations or demands.

We reap where we have bestowed no labor. We ought then to not forget the laborer who did all the work beforehand to get a person to a place through which we can them reap them into the Kingdom.

One sows, another waters, but God gives the increase. Some sow in tears, through intercession and travail, in the prayer closets of their lives. Others sow the Word openly to all who would come and dine. Still others are but a friendly face and kind handshake or hug when the visitor comes to a meeting, that calms the visitor and assures him or her that love is present in and among the people he or she is visiting.

None of these, and all the rest not mentioned, are more important than the other.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

so very true Brother.

Re: Institutionalized Church / Your Input
 

I agree Brother. But I also believe it is our part to tell them the good news. Most don't read the Bible or even go to church.. Thank you for your kind words Brother. I see a lot of nit picking on here and most of the time, I don't respond because some people are easily offended and seem to want to debate and I don't like arguing so I just keep quiet. Thanks again and God bless you.