The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6liKHE2cU8

Agree/disagree?

The full message is at this LINK.

The full message from the men's conference he mentioned in the youtube clip is at this LINK. I haven't listened to any of that message.

*Disclaimer: I don't know this minister, who he is or what he believes. I found this video while browsing FB and thought it was interesting what he had to say. Posting the video doesn't mean I agree with his doctrine, etc.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

:thumbsup

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

well now that Bro E. has given a thumbs up, I have to see it.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I'm not sure this applies to apostolic men so much, it applies more to the seeker sensitive, emergent churches.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

http://www.wikihow.com/Apply-Eyeliner-(Men)

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

It's across the board, and applies to Western Civilization.

But, not much is going to change until $$$$ is taken out of the equation. Religion is big business, and plenty of people out there looking to make lots of moolah from it. And women are a prime source of consumer dollars, so the feminine-oriented marketing will continue. Women, and effeminaised males, spend money more on "felt needs" more than traditinal men tend to.

It's all about easy incomes, plus a generation or two of males brought up in a generally feminist society who don't even know which bathroom to use anymore makes for a large target market to bilk money from.

Unfortunately for them, less of their target market has disposable income. As the crunch continues, you will eventually see a market shift towards whoever has money to spend. Its already happening in some areas, in fact.

Meanwhile, serious people don't got time for dat, and will continue living and being what God called them to be. When the house of cards comes down, the old skool will just carry on, like always, building the next civilization out of the ashes of yet another failed, effeminized Empire.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Agree.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Just listened to what is on here AFF sounds like a
Comedy of Sister Cantaloupe ....

Well...excuse me just came from the backlands of an interior state where a little women held the work together for years.... today there is a man pastor...and no it was not dainty...Service for hours in the cold wind.... sand blowing everywhere but watched a host of the redeemed sing the songs of Zion....

If you could call an old fat missionary dainty...I was probably the most dainty thing there for they had brought me a special "confortable" chair from somewhere...the rest had little plastic chairs or backless rough bench’s.... their church had no roof...no floors...(just dirt) no bathroom...far from dainty.... Yet a little Brazilian woman blazed the trail....

Sorry for sound grouchy.... that guy hit a wrong nerve.... I just spent a week with little Sister Rose.... In the end she won her husband to the Lord. He now is the pastor and overseer of several churches.... His folks were and are Branhamites of all things.... she went through hell and high water to do a work for God.... after her husband became a christian his folks tried in every way to change him over to a Branhamite...I made trip after trip to these backlands in the early years of this work in Bahia just to try to help them and help him understand the difference in WB doctrine and what we preach....

Last night in the closing prayer I saw Pastor Eddy and Sister Rose holding hands praying for their people.... and tears ran down my cheeks…thinking of the long struggle they had many years…Thank God the family is together. I know a preacher that left his wife the other day here in Brazil to find “his rib".

Not by any means saying that guy is that but when people have to belittle others that is NOT the way Jesus did things....

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Comedy of Sister Cantaloupe?

Are you belittling Brazilian catholic traditions or literature or something?

Who is Sister Cantaloupe, Brazil's Dante?

:slaphappy

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I believe it's about whoever will be obedient to Him and get the job done. Make or female.

Women can have ungodly spirits and so can men. It's our carnal fleshly nature that we have to keep subjected to Christ through the renewing of our minds.

I have no problem with the idea of having a woman pastor. If she has the spirit of Christ then she is a new and living creature and she may be female but in God's eyes she is still a Son.

I haven't watched the video yet and I'm not going to.

Yes, feminisation has crept into the church. Im not saying women are evil. In my family on both my mom and dad's side it's a matrriarchy and it's pretty dysfunctional. The women have learned how to look Pentecostal and act Pentecostal and it's a bunch of hypocrisy and carnality. The husband's don't lead in ANYTHING and God help you if you say something they don't agree with or what goes against their tradition. Even when shown the word of God, their traditions outrank that.

It's not women that's the problem, it's ungodly women. Now that's just MY family and that doesn't represent everybody. They married husband's they could control and growing up they tried to manipulate and control me but I wouldn't have any of it and I saw time and time again where they would hide behind their husbands and disrespect and defy the man of God in their lives.

I don't just dismiss a woman because she's a woman and I don't just blindly follow a man because he is a man and neither do I automatically think a man is more qualified than a woman. I listen to God and examine the attitude and fruits.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Sis Alvear, you don't have to justify yourself, the fruit of your labor testifies on your behalf. Why are you worried about what other people think? isn't your reward in the eyes of your babies and when your Lord shall say *well done, good and faithful servant?* :hug4

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Sis, did you watch the video? Please explain why you are so upset about it. I had to rewatch it, thinking perhaps I missed something.

No where did he mention female ministers. What he spoke about in that clip was 100% accurate of the current Evangelical church, and even some charismatic ones.

So please, explain why thou doth protest much.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I don't buy what this guy is selling.

Bible says the person who wins souls is wise.

Bible says be wise as serpents and harmless as doves.

We are the sheep in the presence of wolves.

Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

Vinegar vs honey.

When Jesus Christ was harsh, He was harsh with religious, self-righteous people.

Cry loud, spare not doesn't mean do away with wisdom.

Become all things to all people so that by all means we might win some.

Wolud Jesus Christ have been considered to be an "Alpha" male and his disciples, members of His pack?

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I do not mean to try to justify myself or any other women I just don't like people that crack jokes in th pulpit about women...whether people believe in women in ministry does not really bother me. However I just thought what I heard was not something that should be said in the pulpit....sorry if I am wrong.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

The Gospel of Christ doesn't call for our emasculation.

How does the Bible describe a good man?

Samson? Simeon? Gideon? Elijah? Good men to emulate?

Was Jesus Christ a good man to emulate?

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

The preacher's message is that church has been co-opted to cater to an effeminized audience and membership.

And, he's pretty much correct. He spoke about the "tone police", and... well... his words have been demonstrated here on the thread, to be honest. He was speaking TO his idea of church, not "sinners out there, outside the church." In other words, he was preaching to the religious people of his culture.

And yes, Jesus is a good example of masculinity and male leadership. Notice, too, He only picked men to be apostles...

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I believe you should watch it again. Nowhere did he "crack jokes in the pulpit about women." Honestly, I don't understand. As Esaias stated, he spoke about what is happening in the Evangelical movement -- how many ministers and churches are told to "tone down" their message. To focus on feelings, etc instead of the sinners in the hand of an angry God type of messages preached in ages past.

There was nothing said about female ministers at all. Not one word. I find it fascinating that you took that from that clip when it's not mentioned at all.

What he said should be repeated in every ministers conference around the world. Stop making the church weak and effeminate. Preach the word. Don't water it down or tone it down.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

None of what you posted is at odds with what was said on the clip. And he was speaking at a Minister's conference, not to a normal congregation on a Sunday morning. So he was doing what Jesus did, in that he was condemning the religious leaders.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Remember, Jesus DID clear out the temple with a whip. How's THAT for tone.

Guys, the Jews expected a warrior but He came as a lamb the first time...The next time He's coming as a conquering King with a rod of iron NOT a lamb...Yes we DO need some militancy but we need to make sure it's well placed.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

It's not about "tough guy militancy", that's a meme created by the commies.

What's needed is for men to once again be leaders in their own and their families' lives, and for the church to teach them and encourage them to do it. Usually, this would be learned from parents to children, but several generations have dropped the ball, so somebody's got to do it.

And if the church won't, be sure that someone will step in to fill that vacuum. Hence the whole "alpha male manosphere" movement, which is diverting men off into an effeminised pursuit of fornication masquerading as "real masculinity".

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I am probably to far removed from the American church so I did not agree with him and did not like the little I heard here...Our church in Brazil is no way fits in to his message....I did not like his comparsion but that is just me....

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

If Godly men were to step up and lead, women and children would not be in the crises we are in, we would not be overwhelmed with trying to raise children, run a household, hold down an outside job and minister in the church too.

The example you gave of your friend who had to shoulder the burden alone while trying to keep her husband saved is a perfect example of what the problem is.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Pardon my assumption, but I believe you saw the title and made your mind up, because there's nothing in the actual video clip about women ministers. I doubt anything he stated in the clip would have changed your opinion after reading the title.

What he spoke about I haven't seen much in Apostolic/Pentecostal churches. It's mostly in the mainstream evangelical and charismatic churches. He talked about the emergent church as well. You have "Pastors" like Andy Stanley, who stated that Pastors should stop using the phrase, "the Bible says," because it could turn people off. Instead, Stanley says, Pastors should say, "Paul said in his epistle ..." Or name whomever wrote the verse. But don't mention "the Bible says," because it could alienate people.

I'm glad the church in Brazil doesn't fit the message. Unfortunately, the church in America has become spoiled and pampered. And unfortunately, his message was spot on.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

While I agree with your lead here, again, the clip had absolutely nothing to do with women ministers. Nothing at all. I appreciate Sis. Alvear's testimony, but it had nothing to do with the topic of his message or what was said in the clip.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I didn't watch the clip, I listened to the longer version.

I am not against women doing what they are called by God to do

I just think women are overburdened trying to do their job plus what men should be doing.

http://christianresearchnetwork.org/...ohnson-part-2/

Phil Johnson is definitely against women teachers/preachers, he said:

"I would put the issue of women teaching [in the same category]. Women in positions of leadership over men, that is the issue. For a woman to be in any position of leadership over men in the church is a violation of clear teaching of Scripture. If you’re willing to twist your understanding of Scripture or put enough latitude into the potential meaning of words to tolerate that, then I don’t really trust your judgment on other important issues."

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I agree men need to step up and take the role God intended for them to have. We have ourselves to blame. We became distracted on careers and sports and left the spiritual things to wives and other women.

Some on here are against women teachers/preachers. Personally, I would never attend a church with a woman Pastor. It's not a biblical role for women.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I would not question a woman's calling, one of my favorite books is about a woman preacher, "Oma Ellis." she was ordained by the UPC.

that being said, I prefer male leadership, and would also prefer a male Pastor.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I think he was right on.:thumbsup

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

did you listen to the long version?

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

No. Only the clip.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Listened to the long version again - "Marching Orders for a Backslidden Church," from the 2010 "Shepherd's Conference."

First, again, there was no mention of women ministers. I watched the clip and made the initial post before actually listening to the whole message yesterday. But after Sis. Alvear's posts, and after reading your post, I listened to it again just now to make sure I wasn't missing anything.

I even wrote some notes during the message from each of his 4 points of the text he used.

Text: 1 Corinthians 16:13 "Be watchful, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong."

1. Be watchful:
Be alert. Stay awake. Prayerful watchfulness. Stay on guard. Strengthen what remains and is about to die. Be watchful over words, action, way of life, over one another. Be on guard against false teachers. Against the world. above all watch unto prayer and watch for the Lord's return.

2. Stand firm in the faith:
Stand firm in THE faith. There is only one, true faith. If your message changes every time a new fad or bestselling book comes along ... get out of the ministry, PLEASE!

3. Act like men:
Be men, be manly. (This is where the video clip is from)

4. Be strong:
If you're going to enter the battle, you will need to learn to be strong. If you're faithful, you will be persecuted. Need strength to stand in battle. Paul not speaking of physical strength - but strength of character. Integrity, combined with unflagging persistence.

May I ask, with what in this message did you not agree? I find it hard to understand why anyone wouldn't agree with the main points of his message.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I agree with all of that, there were several messages on his site and I must have listened to a different one than you did.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

did you read his interview?

http://christianresearchnetwork.org/...ohnson-part-2/

here are excerpts from the interview

An issue that I think should be of growing concern among evangelicals is that of women pastors. This trend seems to be coming into the mainstream. Some would say this is a secondary issue, which tends to imply that it’s unimportant. What’s your take?

I would put the issue of women teaching [in the same category]. Women in positions of leadership over men, that is the issue. For a woman to be in any position of leadership over men in the church is a violation of clear teaching of Scripture. If you’re willing to twist your understanding of Scripture or put enough latitude into the potential meaning of words to tolerate that, then I don’t really trust your judgment on other important issues.

You wouldn’t take the platform with a woman pastor or with a man who affirms women pastors?


No. I wouldn’t speak in a church that I knew let women be in positions of authority over men. Once you start making accommodations and exceptions it’s only a matter of time before you’re ordaining women.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

more from phil:

http://christianresearchnetwork.org/...ohnson-part-2/
What’s most unbiblical is easily boiled down to this: women are not supposed to have authority over men in the church. Whether that’s leading the choir…I went to a church for years where the pastor’s wife was the choir director. This was in my younger years and it didn’t occur to me to question that until she started using her authority to scold men in the choir who were elders in the church! She may even have been right on the issue, but here’s the pastor’s wife giving a public scolding to an elder in our church. It made me think about it.

The biblical issue is the question of authority. It’s not to say that men are smarter than women; it’s not to say that men inherently are better teachers than women, none of that is the case. It’s just the order God established for authority and it’s an issue of authority and the leadership duty in the church.

It’s for the women’s benefit as well, that men, their husbands and fathers and the men in the church, should take leadership because you can see in our culture what happens when this is reversed. When you have a woman who is the spiritual authority in her family, then the family can get out of whack. And the woman is the first one to complain, “My husband’s not being the leader he should be,” and that’s true. It’s as much a sin of the men as it is of the women.

The problem with the church and the feminization of the church is not that “pushy” women have intruded on the leadership, but that men abdicated their responsibility. That was the first problem, the heart of the problem, and if the men would be the men they’re supposed to be, this wouldn’t even be an issue.

It’s a failure of male leadership in the church. But you can’t take a pragmatic view and say, “Well, there are no men to lead so let’s let the women lead,” because then you’ve basically overthrown Scripture.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

so the bolded comments above are what Phil says about the feminization of the church and I agree with him whole heartedly.

And I have already stated that I prefer male leadership, but I certainly can't fault women who step up to the plate and try to fill in the gaps.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I didn't read his interview, nor have I listened to any of his other messages, to be honest. Which is why I posted the disclaimer.

I absolutely agree with his statements here. There is no biblical teaching which gives women authority over men in the church.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

I agree again with his statements. Women have no biblical role or authority over men in the church.

His story about the Pastor's wife in charge of the music ministry is funny, because my brother attends a church where the Pastor's wife used to be the music director. He's nearly quit a few times due to her outbursts and scolding. I've spoke with a few others who either currently attend or used to attend the same church and they had the same issue.

"""The problem with the church and the feminization of the church is not that “pushy” women have intruded on the leadership, but that men abdicated their responsibility. That was the first problem, the heart of the problem, and if the men would be the men they’re supposed to be, this wouldn’t even be an issue."""

Sad and true.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Now, in looking for more info about Phil Johnson, I note that he's connected with John MacArthur. In fact, the Shepherd's Conference at which Johnson regularly speaks is hosted by John MacArthur.

MacArthur is a cessationist; he believes miracles, healing, prophecy, tongues, etc all ended with the NT church. He even wrote a book about "Strange Fire" in which he seemingly condemned to hell anyone and everyone who was not a cessationist.

If this is also what Phil Johnson believes, and I would assume he does, then I strongly disagree with that.

Re: The Feminization of the Modern Church
 

Maybe I'll listen to the sermon in full. To me, the point he is trying to make is wrong-headed (a couple drops of truth but headed in the wrong direction, wrong conclusion-- ESPECIALLY if he is speaking to Pastors and/or other ministers).