Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I always find it fascinating how the issue of control comes out in a supposed form of submission. This is evident in the uncut hair issue and I will demonstrate this with quotes from the booklet Guardians of His Glory by Linda and Gary Reed.

The booklet starts out talking about Lucifer and his fall to give a foundation for the rest of the booklet. After talking about Lucifer they write “In the same manner, a wandering star in the kingdom of God spirals out of control.” Pg 7 There is a lot of talk about wickedness, hell, deception. “Beauty queens will appear in this performance as nightmarish monsters….sinners and hypocrites will be tortured together..” pg 10 This sets a foundation of fear.

Later, it talks about being a chosen generation and a royal priesthood. It talks about how we can “shine or irradiate others, as the glory and power of God’s electromagnetic radiation is refracted in our lives….let us leave illusion and self deception….then we will truly be refractors of His glory!” Pg 22.

As many of the books that we have looked at, a foundation of fear is set and then a way to escape the wrath of God…..if you follow the writer’s teaching.

Chapter three begins with talking about not being unequally yoked with unbelievers and the power of holiness. It talks about setting “boundaries on our flesh”. Pg 23 Here is where they begin to talk about a woman’s hair. “The woman’s authority from God is symbolized by her personal glory-her long uncut hair……the entire spectra of God’s glory on earth is clouded when women cut their hair….” Pg 25

It would appear that they try to address some previous teachings (no name is mentioned but I think I know!) when they say “Some teach that we, human beings, have replaced these guardians of God’s glory of God in their homes. This is not substantiated by scripture….” Pg 26

Here is where the issue of control begins to be addressed. “Women have always sought control. In centuries past they were subservient to men….through witchcraft they (pagan cultures) obtained control of kingdoms….they learned how to reverse God’s divine order….pg 27….they shaved their heads…abortion and infanticide were regularly practiced….women….have used sex to wield power over men…pg 28

Now pay attention here: “Women do not need the use of perversion to manipulate their surroundings. For God has given women a way to control their environment without sin. God put women in the middle for a reason….she has the unique ability to mediate and resolve problems. Yet many in-between women are not in control of their situations simply because they are ignorant of God’s endowment. When a woman submits to God’s precepts she will find a channel to glory…..He will make a way where there seems to be no way!” What??? So, if a woman desires to control and manipulate, she should not do it by sex or witchcraft but by not cutting her hair?? Amazing! Confounding!!

They go on about how women can have “power”! Power on her head because of the angels! The word power-exousia means “Force-Capacity-Competency-Freedom and Mastery” When a godly woman (read-woman who does not cut her hair!) is at her wits end, feels totally inadequate, needs protection and power and is threatened with bondage….when she faces Satan’s forces, she becomes a superwoman! “If women only knew what power they would possess by accepting God’s plan, they would readily accept it”! pg 30 Astounding! If you feel out of control….here is a way you can have power and control! Don’t cut your hair! This issue is not about submission. It’s about power and control.
Then, the scary stories ensue about a girl who went insane when a father pushed a girl into the barber’s chair. “When he finished the girl literally went insane, as evil spirits took control of her youthful mind and body.” Pg 30
“A woman’s uncut hair creates a channel of glory in which the angels are empowered to minister. Women especially need an escape valve. This channel is a spiritual hotline to glory. Wow!” pg 30-31

The booklet wraps up with more supposedly convincing arguments.

Do you see how this message could really be enticing to a woman who feels out of control in her life? All she has to do is stop cutting her hair and she will have power and control! This is really dangerous because instead of working towards a true and positive solution for real problems, a woman’s energy is diverted into “long hair” and the belief that it gives her some special power. So, how does a sign that is supposed to be about submission (according to UPC theology) turn into one of power and control? I think the whole thing is about power and control from beginning to end.

Written for the Facebook Group: Breaking Out

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I wanted to start right off the bat with a picture

http://beautifuldecay.com/wp-content.../07/Beardo.jpg

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

And in your mind how does this relate?

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Wow, that's pretty vulgar. Women who cut their hair simply don't look like that. If you live in the dry desert in high heat, you might want to drive out a ways so you can cool down. That doesn't mean you have to drive to the Arctic.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I think women with short hair can be powerful and controlling.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

To be fair, I've personally known more than a few Apostolic/Pentecostal women with long, uncut hair who controlled their husband/Pastor.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

UPC, living in your head, rent free, I see.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

For once in this forum history, I would love for someone to lay out sound Biblical points as to why ILG is wrong in her views or whether or not the authors are right or wrong in their views.

It is always so easy to throw out insults. Is there someone who has Biblical wisdom to respond intelligently to ILG on this issue - for once? Would that be too much to ask?

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

people are pretty much already decided, it's best to just cut to the chase.

if you want to be meat for the vultures, by all means go ahead.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

PO - this has been sliced and diced many times on this forum.
Most of us have no reason to rehash it again.
Especially with ILG, whose primary goal in life is the destruction of the UPC.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

A bit hard to do this without reading the source material. We're only given snippets of various quotes from several pages. There's no context given for the partial quotes which have been posted. How can anyone accurately offer opinion of the booklet without full quotes and context?

Also, the post wasn't written for debate or a request for opinion. This was written as a statement for an anti-UPC Facebook group.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Yes, they can.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

;)

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Recent threads created by ILG:

Submission? Or Power and Control?
More on Skirts
Joy Haney on Skirts - Critique
It's Your Fault People are Homosexual
Legalism and Grief
You Can Fake It All

Each one either a direct attack on the UPCI, or, as with Legalism and Grief, a veiled attack on the organization. A few are noted as written for an anti-UPC group on Facebook.

It's not dialogue ILG wants.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I don't write for those who have their minds made up, I write for those who are struggling and looking for answers. Maybe people who supposedly know the "right" answer should do the same. I notice no one has a valid reason for why Gary and Linda Reed so easily say that long hair is so women can control their environment without sin.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

For those who want "context":

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

bottom of page 28 "God has given holy woman a way to control their environment without sin". There you go.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Biblically speaking there is only one way to receive power and that is upon receiving the Holy Ghost. Acts 1:8 I think. Any action that we take that takes the focus off of Jesus Christ and Him crucified is a completely false doctrine!!

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

:tiphat Yes!

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

You've let down your hair, no pun intended (:heeheehee ), and gotten bolder in your posts. Good on you, Girl! I thought there had to be a little thunder somewhere inside of you. :highfive

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I thought that was a little bold for Amanah! Yep, a little thunder is good for the soul! ;)

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I have been taught what ILG posts below. I have never read anyone specifically use scripture to back up or refute this claim on FCF, NFCF nor AFF.

On a bit of a side note: So, yesterday, and again today, I was viewing Ben Shapiro debate Cenk Uygur (Bernie Sanders supporter) on a new platform called Politicon in Los Angeles. At the end of the debate Twitter took a poll and Shapiro won by 95%.

I think that we, as Conservatives, need to adopt Ben's platform - "Facts don't care about your feelings."

One of the liberals (college student, hence the wording) listening to the event stated, "Dude, Ben Shapiro is actually pretty smart. I love how everything is centered in logic. I disagree with some of the things he says, but I find myself agreeing with him on other stuff."

So, I would like to emulate Brother Blume who comes to mind. He is the foremost poster who puts out scripture and facts without insult or injury, and I like that.

Someone needs to line out the scripture text, if it is there, on this one particular part - Is the "glory" of the angel's wings covering the Ark of the Covenant a type and shadow of the woman's long hair being her covering in the NT? I suppose some will say, "No, it is a headcovering". Regardless, is it a type and shadow, because I have heard, for myself, Anthony Mangun say that he believes that to be true?

My take on I Corinthians 11 is that verse 10, "For this cause..." points back to the order of creation and has nothing to do with the hair on our head. I believe that Daniel Segraves holds that view as well. We get to verses 14 and 15, which then gets into gender distinction on length.

BDB lines out which actual Hebrew word identifies with any given OT reference. I don't know a source that does that for the Greek in the NT. Thayers lays out 4 definitions and so I don't know which one is applicable to the passage for "power" in I Cor. 11:10

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

She is awesome. I am glad she is a poster here. Very level headed. :thumbsup

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

:thumbsup

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

PO - as before stated, ILG does not want an honest debate.
Notice that she did not dispute my statement or ndavids that she is vehemently anti-UPC.
So, I see no point in engaging with her.
Now, let me say that the entire uncut hair equals special favor with God thing is not my viewpoint.
I do believe that there is power in submission and obedience, even for men.
But, ILG's entire focus is to spread doubt and disbelief in ANY doctrine espoused by the UPC.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I think we need more female posters, the guys are rubbing off on me :heeheehee

most of the posters on AFF do not agree with some of the outlandish claims about hair giving women super powers.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I am probably speaking for ILG, but I believe that she doesn't want to engage in statements and neither do I. I want cold, hard, Biblical truth backed by scripture. Even if I don't believe or agree, I want scripture.

Why do you believe this and can you back it up? "ILG, I don't agree with this because I believe the scriptures are clear..." That seems relatively easy.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

:heeheehee

Agreed! If I did have that kind of power, I would.... :heeheehee

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Been hanging around threads with EB too long! :lol

I don't believe in holy magic hair.

I do believe in Biblical submission and obedience.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Beware of the doctrines of both men and devils.

Matthew 15:9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


1 Timothy 4:1
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;


Hebrews 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.

If something ISN'T biblical... it's not biblical. If something is rooted in occult practice and witchcraft... it's abomination. Sweet and bitter water cannot flow from the same well.

Consider the sources....

“Hair has always been considered strong magic; witches casting an evil spell needed a piece of hair from their victims to make it truly efficacious.”
The Power of Magic Secrets and Mysteries Ancient and Modern

“Hair has psychical powers that act as a protection from evil entities of the etheric world; cutting of the hair was done in a ritual to discontinue this protection; it is symbolic of strength.”
The Donning International Encyclopedic Psychic Dictionary

“So widespread was the faith in the power of hair that in Scotland it was ominous even to meet a woman with her hair uncovered. If a woman shook her hair at you, they believed anything could happen.”
Hair, Sex, Society and Symbolism

“St. Paul greatly feared the ‘angels’ (spirits) that a woman could command by letting their hair flow loose, he insisted that women’s heads be covered in church lest they draw demons into the building.” In referring to 1 Corinthians 11:10, Walker interprets “because of the angels,” to mean the spirits were supposed to be attracted or controlled by unbound female hair.”
Barbara Walker Enc. of Myths and Secrets 367.
Juli Jasinski My Hair, My Glory 12.

Notice the works this doctrine is associated with. It should turn the stomach. This is witchcraft. It is written...

Deuteronomy 18:9-12 (KJV)
9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Abomination.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Most of her threads are rants against UPC officials/authors. I'm not interested in debate, especially when the post is written as a statement for an anti-UPC group.

:nod

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Thanks PO. What I have no interest in is in defending myself against attacks. I used to do it but it became very emotionally exhausting. When I see that a person doesn't want real discussion but wants to attack and belittle, I simply avoid the person posting. If I were in the position of believing uncut hair, and felt it was so important, I would try and explain the position for those reading, no matter what I thought of the original poster.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Ironic, considering almost every single thread you've created was to attack and belittle the UPC and its ministers/authors.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

I didn't attack anyone. I simply stated my opinion that what is taught about submission is really about power and control and backed up my opinion with actual quotes. I have done this with all the essays I've written. Anyone is welcome to defend anything pro or con.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Disagreement does not equal attack.

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

That is also Ben Shapiro's point - "When the Left uses "intersectionality" as validation of their arguments, it is the conservative's duty to disregard their character-based arguments."

Shapiro uses this view in politics, but we could also use this in Christian debate as well. :thumbsup

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Thanks, that's a beginning. :thumbsup

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

Its been done before, but ILG always takes it personal and refuses to actually defend what she posts in a logical manner. Additionally, the holy magic hair doctrine has already been refuted here before, numerous times. Nobody here (to my knowledge) believes holy magic hair nonsense.

Biblical wisdom often demands a response of not responding. :)

Re: Submission? Or Power and Control?
 

WB.