Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

What is the logic behind SOME Apostolic Pastors who preach against the youth in their congregations taking part in the following extra-curricular school activities:

Organized school sports (basketball, baseball, field hockey, etc...);


Theatre Arts (plays, musicals, etc...);


Attending Junior and Senior Prom.



Respectfully,
JMD

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

I was always told those things were worldly. Than I pointed out that our church participated in church softball leagues and that our school basketball team played other Christian schools. Then I was told it was because it unequally yokes believing youth with unbelieving youth in friendship and that these friendships will cause our youth to backslide.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

This has changes some in the church's I am familiar with. The main thing I heard was it takes time away from church activities and sometimes violates the dress code. The anti sports subject has always been one of my biggest questions. As a high schooler I attended a church school in the local UPC that was ACE curriculum. We did play flag football and softball against other are church schools. We also attended the state and national ACE conventions I have multiple state ribbons for track and a couple I won in Flagstaff,AR. During this time I was offered a paid tuition at a local large private school for football. My parents and pastor shot it down. I was blessed athletically. I feel if I had taken that opportunity I could have played college ball and had my education paid for.. My question back then was if God made me like this with all this athletic ability why could I not use it to better myself??

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

JD,

Coming from the perspective of a long time youth pastor, every young person (and I mean every) that was in my youth group and involved in extracurricular school activities like sports, marching band, etc., every one of them has strayed from the church. That may sound like a broad statement, but it's a true one. The biggest problem I have with it, is that it starts taking away from church time almost immediately. They start missing midweek services for practice. They start skipping youth parties for football games. It takes their focus away from God, and desensitizes them to worldly things. Those same youth soon start sitting in the back of the church, playing on their phones instead of hearing the Word. They get closer to their worldly friends at school, than any of the kids at church.

Sports is nothing but 21st century idol worship.

We don't participate in church softball leagues or "Christian" basketball leagues.

I know it's a balancing act when you are raising kids, but I believe we are in this world, but we're not of this world. Prior to being a youth pastor, I didn't really understand why we weren't allowed to play sports. After seeing the effects of sports on many, many Apostolic young people, I have changed my beliefs on it.

These are my opinions. You all are certainly okay to have your own opinions on the matter.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

We never attended the high school prom because "nothing comes off faster than a prom dress."

Some churches prohibit or frown on sports or drama due to schedule conflicts.

Not all churches have the same approach to sports and the arts.

But some do frown on the arts, especially drama, dance and theater.

I am rather biased. But I think it is more cultural than theological. But separating the two is not as easy as one might think.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Sports - as TakingDominion said, it's 21st century idol worship. Most sports have immodest dress. It also takes time from family and church due to the practices and games.

Theatre Arts - Caution. Theatre tends to attract a certain group. I would not knowingly allow my child to spend that amount of time (rehearsals, performances, parties, etc) in that atmosphere.

Prom - Nope. Nope. Nope.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

If your kid is involved in church services, choir, youth meetings, ect, they are not going to have time for secular school sports and activities, and hopefully they are being home schooled, or attending a church school.

Also, hopefully there are outlets for kids to use their talents in church musicals, plays, ect.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

JD - as someone who did all of the above, (except attending Prom), I believe I can speak from personal experience.
I played a lot of sports growing up. Baseball, Basketball, Football and Track.
I was good, so it was fun. Winning was fun.
There are some good things I learned from sports, such as teamwork, leadership and hard work (equals results).
However, when I got into HS that all changed.
Due to the negative influences sports had at that time, I almost lost my way and I still live with the scars from those times.
Now, I still love sports. I fight that fight every day. It has grown easier as I have become disgusted with every sport that has now officially endorsed unrighteousness and basically painted Bible-believing Christians as illiterate, uneducated bigots.
When I see my old baseball coach, he always tells me that I could have made it in MLB. And he knew what he was talking about. Three other boys from that neighborhood did make it. One of them killed himself after a stellar career. However, he could not shake the drug addiction the career brought. The others suffer from the usual multiple marriages and addiction issues. Another boy from the hood made it in the NFL. Now he is battling cancer, probably brought on by the roids he took.
One thing that I am very Godly proud of is that my two boys (who were athletically gifted, also) do not have the love for sports that I do. They love to play basketball, but to them, it is not life or death.
But, I did not let them play organized sports growing up.
It comes down to this question, regarding sports for me.

Have you ever seen someone who said playing sports helped their walk with God?

Nope.
That is the bottom line for me.

Now to other school activities.
Musicals, plays, band, etc... - I cannot speak to these as well as I did to Sports.
Maybe someone else can.
As to Prom.
I had enough sense to listen to my pastor on this, as least.
I never went.
But, I have friends who still have to deal with the issues that started at the after Prom parties.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Just one more thing here.
I was listening to Victor Jackson at NAYC, today (replay on youtube).
He said, if I can paraphrase, spiritual greatness comes from sacrifice.
This brought to mind that one day when I was having a pity party about what I could have been in the sports world, God spoke to me.
He told me to go look at how much I could have made in that world.
So, I did.
He then asked me how much I have made with my career.
Well, guess what.
I have made more than I could have made, IF I had "made it".

Wow!
Feel like shouting!!!

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Thanks for being tactful.
:spit

Honestly, the students involved in plays and musicals (at least when I was involved in it throughout HS) tend to have very liberal ideas and ways of thinking. By far, I was the most conservative of my peers and never found any of the worldly "junk" associated with my drama friends to be attractive at all.

Not. One. Thing. Was. Attractive. At. All. Other. Than. The. Art. Itself.

I spell that out because you guys are well aware with my past struggles, but honestly, I was too concerned with trying to be a light for my peers at that point of my life to ever engage in that particularly blatant sin.

I will say one area my friends from Chorus, Chamber Choir and Drama influenced me was in my music tastes. I never stopped loving Gospel and Christian music, but I did develop a liking for Green Day, Savage Garden and other "Alternative Rock" groups that were HUGE in the mid 90's.

Besides that, at that point of my life, I was a pretty strong Christian for a teenager who attended a church without ANY other saved peers.

I didn't have church friends. Our church was small and in the ghetto and the souls drawn to my Dad's ministry were not in my age group.


I remember attending Homecoming with a date my Freshman year. Sophomore year, nope. Junior year, yes, with a date. Junior Prom, yes, with a date-- a Christian girl, non-Apostolic and the entire evening was fun and WHOLESOME in every way.

My Senior year, I helped organize the Homecoming dance, but stepped into the dance hall and left because I felt out of place and a little sad without a date. I purposed to not attend Prom because it was going to interfere with a multi-church service within the denomination we were apart of and I honestly didn't want God to think I was putting Prom before Him. If it had been a regular service, I probably would have went to my Senior Prom.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Our family friends laugh in derision at the misconceptions of those who work in the performing arts arena.

The only thing everyone in Hollywood has in common is their zip code.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

What is there to fight about?

I played football for one year in HS, realized it wasn't for me. However, if I had been athletically gifted in other areas, I don't see why I would have to "fight" not using my natural abilities.

I have read the "time away from church and church functions" responses, but as a saved teenager with no other saved peers as friends, my parents just didn't allow me to miss church very often at all. I would have LOVED having a "youth group"!

The occasional concert, or dress rehearsal wasn't a problem for them or me because I didn't miss church usually. There were a few Sunday morning choral concerts I missed and one even affected my grade for that class for a grading quarter. There was one choral concert I didn't miss that was on a Sunday morning. My Dad was against it, but my Mom convinced him to let me go.

So if the teenager doesn't usually miss church services, and that teenager misses a few during school year due to being involved with positive pursuits, what's the problem?


Can all of the concerns you guys are bringing up be solved by just having a strong Christian home and family life?

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

LOL!
:highfive

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Something I have noticed about myself is that I personalize many of the stuff I post and ask about here.

Maybe I should, maybe I shouldn't.

I do know of one Apostolic girl, several years younger than me, who got involved in drama for a couple years, went to an after party from after her final performance and she fell into sin.

But she didn't have to fall. I attended those same type of parties with my drama peers and I didn't engage in blatant sin.

What gives?

Someone falls and now there is a blanket rule for everyone else?

But what about those of us who didn't / don't fall?

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Actors should act. Painter should paint. Singers should sing. Writers should spill ink.

Shall we live our lives in the salt shaker or should we be shaken out ??

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Public school is sin. Problem solved. :)

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

We are here for a purpose. It's not to run a pigskin across a field. It's not to hit a leather ball over a fence or throw one into a net. It's not to be an actor or try to emulate Hollywood.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

But working a 9 to 5 in a steel mill is?

Is there or has there ever been a saved professional athlete? Is this impossible to exist?

How about an actor? There is one that immediately comes to mind, a Pentecostal actor-- is he not saved because he is an actor?

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

I never much inquired into an official stance anyone else had on these things.

My thoughts are this:

Childhood is training for adulthood, period, end of story. Simon and Andrew, James and John, were likely all young men, peers of the Lord in terms of age, and certainly in terms of demographics and geography. These guys pulled seine nets that weighed hundreds of pounds when empty, possibly upwards of a ton, when full of fished, and they did so, through water.

These guys could have started their own rugby team and been the hardest hitting of any team to take the field, if the sport had existed back then.

But instead, they were all of them following in their father's footsteps, learning to sail and fish and repair nets and cast them from shore and from boat, and how to filet and barter, and judge weather, and defend themselves against bandits, and who knows what else.

And they were likely doing this from the time they were 10 or 12. They had no time for frivolity. They were learning to become adults, that time in life in which you spend the vast majority of your time in life.

I want my kids to have fun and enjoy life and learn certain skills and themes. But most of all, I want them to be successful, God-fearing, Christ obeying adults. And that takes a lot of work, and my wife and I don't have a lot of time to invest in doing much else but making sure we raise them right, so my daughter will be ready to marry when she decides to do so. And when I say ready, I don't mean head over heels in love ready to consummate that love. I mean, she knows how to cook, clean, do the laundry, sew, host guests, keep the home, mind children, change diapers, balance a checkbook, teach the Word by teaching her siblings, so she is prepared when she has her own children.

The same for our sons. They need to know how to work. They need to know how to build, and persevere and deal with harsh conditions and fix things around the house, how to go about spending money in a wise and Godly way, how to lead and have confidence and know true north so they can lead others to Jesus, how to love and be honest and be best friends, and lay down their lives for the Lord and for their families. How to study the Word and receive revelation and know the voice of their Master for themselves.

To quote unpopular Paul Washer:

If your dad is still paying your car insurance, you're a boy, not a man. If you're saving up for an XBOX instead of for a down payment on a house, you're still a child, not an adult.

I might add to that and say, "If you're out learning how to play football instead of learning how to write a resume, you're but a boy, not a man...and you're never going to become a man, no matter how old you are, until you learn to put away childish things."

I recommend everyone read Do Hard Things: A Teenage Rebellion Against Low Expectations by Alex and Brett Harris.

https://www.amazon.com/Do-Hard-Thing.../dp/1601428294

Find a way to better understand what the Lord wants from us as parents during the transitional phase between childhood and adulthood.

The word teenager didn't exist 200 years ago, brothers and sisters.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

We never encouraged anyone to enter the movie business. The chances of "making it" are quite low.

But we did know people who did quite well in the business. Both actors/writers/performers and "extras" who did it part time as a hobby.

Aside from "fame" most of our friends lived quite normal lives. Their gift brought home the bacon. Instead of being a plumber or a mechanic, they were actors.

Every person has a path they should walk on. I am no critic of what path that may be.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

very wise, beautiful post

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

we want to be parents like this. there was so many things I had to teach my wife just about life and daily living after we got married. Her younger brother is struggling through boot camp right now woefully unprepared. Gonna fet those books as well....looks like they would be something not just for my kids but to help me grow as a person.

Re: Will Someone Explain-- I Will Ask Questions
 

Victor Jackson preaching this morning and this evening, streaming on facebook

Victor Jackson left a lucrative career and scholarship to preach the gospel. I thought it was pertinent to this thread.

https://www.facebook.com/FPCPalmBay/...1184834599104/

Victor Jackson speaks specifically to people who were traumatized in their homes in this video.

BIOGRAPHY
Victor Jackson is a UPCI Ordained evangelist that has been traveling the nation full time with his beautiful wife Luisa for almost 5 years. He was a former college basketball player for the #1 team in the nation but God got a hold of him through a Bible study on campus. He left his scholarships and basketball career to follow the call of God.

Before evangelizing, he served on his local church youth team for 3 years. He also served for 3 years on the Florida District Youth Committee as the CMI Director helping young people start campus ministries throughout Florida. God has blessed his ministry that has thrived under the leadership and tutelage of Bishop James and Pastor Jason Varnum. He continues to base out of his home church Souls Harbor FPC in Belleview, FL.

Every weekend he travels throughout the movement preaching many services, conferences and camps, edifying the body of Christ in any way he can. Since January 2016 God gave them a new traveling partner in their son James Asher, who they could not be more proud of.