Do all speak with tongues?
 

"Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?"

The answer is, "no." I think most will agree.

Some would say that Paul is differentiating between the gift of tongues and initial evidence. I can not find where the scripture draws that line. So, I'm asking those of you who believe that Paul was addressing tongues as a gift rather than initial evidence, (please) show me where the Bible speaks of tongues as a gift and a distinction of tongues as initial evidence that someone has received the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

I also ask that those of you who do NOT believe in initial evidence to (please) refrain from posting here. This is an honest post, and I do not want to see it turn into a debate.

Cordially,
Houston

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Hi Houston, I'm going to just add my two cents in the interim. I'm sure someone will come along who can explain things much better than I can.

Jesus said we must be born again of the water and spirit John 3:5

John said Jesus would baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire Matthew 3:11

Peter said we are born again by the gospel 1 Peter 1:23-25

According to Luke 24 the preaching of the gospel began at Jerusalem

The gospel embraces Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 and could not have happened until Jesus died

In Acts 1:4-8 the disciples asked when the Kingdom of God would come and they were told to wait for the promise of the Holy Ghost

The Kingdom of God is righteousness peace and joy in the HG, so it could not come until the HG was given Romans 14:17

On the day of Pentecost they were all filled with the HG and began to speak with other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance Acts 2:1-4. This is when the supernatural Kingdom of God was set up upon the earth.

When the gentiles received the Holy Ghost in response to the gospel, they knew it because they heard them speak with tongues Acts 10:44-46

So speaking in tongues is initial evidence.

There is a difference between the Gift (singular) of the Holy Ghost Acts 2:38 1 Corinthians 12:13

and the Gifts (plural) of the Spirit 1 Corinthians 12 Romans 12

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Hello, Amanah,

I know all that. What I'm looking for is where Paul made a distinction. I have a friend who is ex AOG. He is now a Reformed Baptst. I asked him about the accounts in Acts where people received the Holy Ghost with initial evidence. This is what he told me. He stated that (in the Greek) the text (Acts) DOES require evidence, which would be glossolalia. My mind was blown.

But, he stated (position I currently hold) that the evidence was a sign to the Jews that God was saving Gentiles. That is what we see in Acts. Even Peter (I think) stated something like "they received the Holy Ghost as we did in the beginning." I paraphrase.

It looks like, to me, that I may be making full circle in my beliefs. I have already posted in another thread that I want to come home (Epley would be thrilled). But, I feel that as I currently stand, I do not belong.

Maybe I'll wait it out and see if I make full circle before I find a church to attend.

Who knows. Maybe some day my dream of being an itinerant preacher in the Apostolic and Pentecostal movement WILL come to pass. *shrugs*

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Houston, please don't wait to attend church, you might be feeling some resistance in your spirit but the Holy Ghost can speak to you in a church service in very powerful ways that will bring clarity, guidance, and direction. Listen to that still small voice.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

1 Corinthians 14:22 IMO adds to the question. Can someone explain the sign of tongues here ? Also who is the believer and the unbeliever??

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Not a sign to the unpursuaded, a sign to the pursuaded


Ok. That doesn't help.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

If He is filling both Jew and Gentile, how is that not showing that all speak in tongues? It can't just be a sign for the Jews, because it then must also be a sign for the Gentiles.


I've always believed God has a plan for your life, and you would be a powerhouse. :thumbsup

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Ok. So if all do, then your stance is that Paul was differentiating a gift from the gift, correct?

I was waiting for you to comment so I can say, "I know that you have prayed for me, so this is all your fault."

:thumbsup :happydance

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Right, you don't want me to pray for you. LOL! And for the record, I know what I feel when I pray for you and I know why I never stop praying for you. God just won't let you go.

Yes, my stance is that Paul was differentiating between the initial infilling from the gifts that we operate having that initial infilling.

The reason I believe in the initial infilling, which is accompanied by a sign, i.e. speaking in tongues, is that Jesus sent the disciples to the upper room to wait for that infilling. All of those waiting in the upper room were, indeed, filled with the baptism of the Holy Ghost and began to speak in tongues. The main point being - every person that obeyed what Jesus told them to do were filled with the Holy Ghost, speaking in other tongues.

One other matter of importance is that the Jews who heard the 120 speaking in tongues were amazed and wanted to know what it was all about. Peter tells them that it was the fulfilled prophecy - "I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh."

Now, the gifts of the spirit are addressed in I Corinthians 12, but notice in verse 1. I will have this in the NLV - " 2 I write to God’s church in the city of Corinth. I write to those who belong to Christ Jesus and to those who are set apart by Him and made holy."

He is writing to a people who were already saved, filled and made holy (if they continue in the faith, of course).

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Houston, I really believe this book would bless you. It is very well written. You can purchase it in Kindle, if you like. It is very matter of fact and down to earth. I think you would like it.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....4,203,200_.jpg

https://www.amazon.com/Chances-We-Ta...hoices+we+make

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

1 Cor 12:9 lists "faith" as one of the gifts of the Spirit. It is said "to another, faith by the same Spirit". Thus, not everyone has the same gift, and that includes faith.

Yet, we know everyone who has the Spirit DOES have faith. So obviously, two different kinds of faith are in view. One, the faith everyone who receives the Spirit has. Two, the faith that certain Christians have as a special working of the Spirit. So then there is the faith that is universal among true believers, and then there is a special operation of faith imparted by the Spirit to certain believers for certain purposes. Not all believers have THAT special gift of "faith".

Just so with tongues.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

awesome

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Awesome question.

I'll share my understanding. Others might have better insight to how to answer your question than I do.

As you mentioned, there is the initial evidence of tongues and then there is the gift of tongues:

1.) Tongues as initial evidence.
2.) Gift of Tongues.

Let's look at the Gift of Tongues first. This will help us distinguish the two in Scripture. The Gift of Tongues has specific instructions regarding its use:

I Corinthians 14:27-28 (ESV)
27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret. 28 But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.

When the Gift of Tongues is at play, there can be two or, at most, three speakers giving an utterance (some might say, or one speaker limited to three utterances). This is to prevent utterance after utterance, after utterance during gatherings. Also, those giving an utterance are to speak in turn. Lastly, there is to be an interpreter. And if no interpreter is present, those who gave the utterance(s) are to remain silent and return to praying with the congregation.

These rules prevent this gift from being abused and used to take over gatherings. It also ensures that the congregation gathering is edified by the utterance by virtue of the gift of interpretation being in operation.

Now. That's the Gift of Tongues. In the book of Acts we see Tongues as Initial Evidence when people receive the Holy Ghost. In Pentecost we saw 120 begin speaking in tongues all at once, so there is no limitation on the number of speakers. In addition we don't see an interpreter present. In fact, we saw the unique manifestation of others hearing their tongues, every man, in the language wherein he was born. In Acts 8 we read about how Samaria received the Holy Ghost and Simon "saw" that the baptism of the Holy Ghost was given through the laying on of hands and offered to buy the gift. This indicates that there was a sign for Simon to see. Thus it is implied that the entre community receiving the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues. No limitation on number of speakers is present. Also, no mention of an interpretation. In Acts 19 we see 12 people filled with the spirit and speaking in tongues. No limitation on speakers or interpreter is mentioned. Therefore, we can rest assured that these tongues are distinct from the Gift of Tongues. In addition, everyone speaking with tongues in Acts were new converts. They weren't individuals already filled with the Spirit. When dealing with the gift of tongues, one is using a gift of the Spirit that they have previously received.

Based on these details, I believe we see a clear distinction between the two in Scripture. Now, not all have the "Gift of Tongues". But in Acts, everyone filled with the Spirit spoke in tongues as initial evidence.

Hope that helps. God bless.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

:highfive

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

I find the answer to be much more rudimentary and concise. The Greek word behind "gift" as in "gift of the Holy Spirit" (e.g. Acts 2:39) is not the same word as "gift of diverse kinds of tongues" (1 Corinthians 12).

Two different words imply two different concepts. The use of the word "gift" in Acts is more in keeping with something given, like a present. The use of gift in 1 Corinthians 12 is charismata, from the Greek word charis the most typical word translated "grace" in the NT. So, these charismata are special endowments of a specific "grace".

Yes, grace is a gift, of course. But grace is not a charismata. Grace is a gift as in a present, something given. A free gift, no less. A charismata, then, is a heightened form of the grace already given by the Spirit of Grace (i.e. Holy Spirit) at salvation, administered by God for Body ministry.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

That's interesting.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

I won't turn this into a debate. In my opinion:

The concept that tongues in 1 Corinthians 12 is about a "gift of tongues" as opposed to the "initial evidence of tongues" isn't a distinction that the bible explicitly reveals. Instead it's a derived belief that is absolutely necessary if the initial evidence of tongues doctrine is true.

If the initial evidence of tongues doctrine isn't true then Paul asserting that all do not speak in tongues would be universally true and there would be no biblical necessity for deriving the belief of different types of tongues (although there could still be different types of tongues even without scripture that suggests it).

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Right.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

In other words, you want to make claims without any responsibility to support and defend those claims.

This reasoning necessarily results in the conclusion that faith is not a universal gift to Christians. But we all know faith is universal to Christians, therefore the reasoning is reduced to an absurdity and thereby refuted beyond repair.

Faith is listed as a gift in 1 Cor 12. Paul asks "Do all...?" and lists several gifts, but not all. The gifts are described as different operations giving rise to different members' varied roles in the Body. Therefore the list following "Do all...?" is not exhaustive but representative (a sample). And therefore, not all have "faith".

IF there aren't two kinds of faith, then the conclusion is inescapable: faith is not universal to all the saved. But we know faith is universal to all the saved, therefore there is more than one kind of faith. And if there is more than one kind of faith, there can be more than one kind of tongues. Specifically, a universal expression of tongues, and a particular or special expression of tongues described in 1 Cor 12-14.

In fact, I would go further and suggest this distinction is specifically alluded to in ch 14, but we aren't in a debate so I'll forbear. :)

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Please check your PM. Thanks.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Got them yesterday. Thanks. Spent the day in the water. Will get back to you when I’m not busy.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

John 3:8
The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

SOUND:
Strongs: 5456

Transliterated to : Phone
Pronounced: fo-nay'
Used 131 times in the NT as voice.

Defined as:
1) a sound, a tone

2) a voice (of the sound of uttered words)

3) speech (of a language, tongue)

As per Strongs.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

So now we have wind talkers. Do you speak in Navajo tongues?

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

It's an analogy man. A scriptural analogy that has been used repeatedly. The point here is the sound refers to language.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Pardon my tone. I’m visiting family for a week. They’ve been stuffing me with pan dulce, tortillas, tacos, and horchata. I can’t take it anymore ... :girlytantrum

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Speaking of "wind takers". Vas a pasar muchos pedos por todo lo comiste (pan dulce, orchata, tacos, etc) :heeheehee . don't know if I said that right or not.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

I had horchata this, and tacos after Sunday after service. :happydance

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Horchata? Is that like a Mexican answer to chocolate milk or something? Is it like a shake? Or a frappe? Iced coffee? Que es esto?

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

:yourock :thumbsup :hug3:hanky:shockamoo:amen:party:bliss

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

It is rice milk with cinnamon. I was heaping habanero salsa on my tacos, and the horchata cools down the burn.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Rice milk? I've had almond milk but I prefer beef milk.

:)

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

It doesn't taste like Rice Milk Rice Milk.

I have lots of grass fed unpasteurized beef milk

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

It is a million times better than all that junk.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

It’s made with beef milk. Rice. Cinnamon. And maybe vanilla.

Served on the rocks.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Hmm. I'll have to find some and try it.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

May find some at a Stripes. It’s decent. Not the best.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

I'll look at the local tacqueria.

Re: Do all speak with tongues?
 

Ask for easy ice... then ask for an extra cup of ice. Lol. It’s pricey and no refills.