Concealed Carry in Church
 

Does anyone here carry to services? What are your thoughts on it? If someone barged into Church with weapons raised, would you fire back to protect yourself, the congregants, or your children?

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

My Sister has a concealed carry license, she carries wherever it is legal to do so, and would fire without hesitation.

I have a Glock, but don't have a concealed carry license as of yet.

I would certainly fire back to protect the congregation, particularly our Pastor as he is exceptionally awesome.

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

I know we have several men who have a concealed carry license, and who carry to church. I believe we even have a few church ladies that carry.

I have spoken to Pastor about it, and he encourages those that can legally do so, to carry. Sadly, that's the world we live in today.

I wonder if more churches had spiritual authority and dominion, would weapons in the sanctuary be necessary?

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

What a question. It has many implications. I'll share my initial thoughts...

I think this would be a deeply personal choice for every individual to decide for themselves. Out of Christian conviction, many have chosen not to own a firearm. However, I think most, if not all, would thank the Lord God above if someone who carried saved them or their family by killing a gunman in the church. Some might say that it would be a "sin". But it can be argued that doing nothing when armed and able might be a "sin" too. Praise God blowing away an armed gunman wouldn't be the unforgiveable sin. But not acting and just watching someone blow away your brothers and sisters in Christ, when you could have saved them, how could you forgive yourself?

I think the greater sin would be to do nothing.

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

What do you mean by this?

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Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes and Yes.

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We have several bodyguards/security officers positioned on our campus (including the main sanctuary) during Sunday services.

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Jesus and the Apostles has body guards :coffee2

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You know, for those who might doubt your statement, you very well might be right.

I was told that at least two disciples carried swords.

Luke 22:38 (ESV)
And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.”

Perhaps two disciples served as the "body guards" of Jesus. We see Peter being willing pull a sword and act like a body guard when Jesus was arrested. Either Peter was carrying a third sword... or he was carrying one of the two swords previously presented.

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

The right to bear arms is the right to bear arms. I think guns should be considered "out of place" inside a church, but apparently now in America, guns in church might be a necessary precaution.

However, Jesus did tell Peter to put away his sword.

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Sadly, this testifies to how far out of control our society has become.

I wonder why Jesus hadn't told Peter to ditch his sword prior to that occasion? It seems as though Jesus had no issue with Peter (and at least another disciple) carrying a word. Christ's rebuke of Peter seems to be in regards to Peter's willingness to aggress against lawful authority.

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Wasn't there a story of an Apostolic missionary who was leading a church service when one of the congregants spoke in tongues and as the church waited in silence, the interpretation of the tongues was yelled, "get down!"

Minutes later, gunmen from outside sprayed the church house with hundreds of bullets without any of them striking a single congregant?

Has anyone else heard this story?

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Haven't heard that story, but a girl I grew up with married a missionary kid who became a missionary himself. They were in their country, walking along together when someone came to them with a gun and demanded money or he'd shoot them.

The missionary told him, "I rebuke you in Jesus Name." The man pulled the trigger and nothing happened. The missionary kept praying, "I rebuke you in the Name of Jesus." The mugger kept trying to fire his gun, allegedly becoming frantic. After a few more tries, he ran off.

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I know a young man who is an "armor bearer" at a church near me. He is always at the Pastor's side, or right off the side of the stage when the Pastor is preaching. He wears a shoulder holster with a handgun.

This was the first church I've attended where certain men were placed in specific seats as a defensive measure.

Great church though. Loved to worship. Baptizing people, people getting the Holy Ghost.

Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition!

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

I love shoulder holsters.

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I mean, aren't we supposed to have authority and power in the name of Jesus Christ?

Isn't he our shield and our buckler?

The name of the Lord is a strong tower, the righteous run into it and are saved.

Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear NO EVIL. For THOU are with me!

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This was a predominantly black church, wasn't it?
:oops

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Why would a pastor feel the need to have bodyguards? Is he secretly selling dope? Sunday school kids distribute at their schools?

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I think a former poster stated that they have armed security at their church. Also that there are several members that carry concealed.

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Yes it was! :thumbsup

I asked the Pastor about having an armed escort and he told me stories of growing up in California and attending a church where they had several occurrences of drug addicts or gang members rush into the church and try to assault either the Pastor or a parishioner. Important to note, while people have tried to rush the stage at this church in Cali, and while they have armed armor bearers there, no shots have been fired. I don't believe they've had anyone bring a gun into the church. There was a story about a drug addict with a knife, but he was disarmed by one of the men.

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Yes and yes. And once the suspect has been subdued, I'd pray for God to heal him and fill him with the Holy Ghost (and while that sounds somewhat tongue in cheek, I mean that quite sincerely).

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Resist not evil

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

My parents' church, when I was a kid, was in the ghetto in NE DC-- lots of crime, drugs, murder, and every other immorality you can think of to include rape.

One Sunday morning, a man who was the husband of one of the choir members came into the church. He stormed the pew where the choir was and began to beat the choir member with his fists.

My Dad and his assistant Pastor immediately rushed the man. The choir members tried to stop him. I remember my Dad and the assistant Pastor holding the man away from the choir member (his soon-to-be-ex-wife). The assistant Pastor told the assaulter, "Don't make me have to hurt you Tim. Don't make me have to hurt you."

The choir member had a bruised cheek, was emotionally shaken up, but was relatively fine. The police came and the assaulter went to jail.

My Dad finished the service off with a talk about what had just happened. He spoke about how that there is a time and place for everything and that he was glad that the situation was neutralized WITHOUT having to kill that man "inside the House of God".

My Dad made it clear that he and the Assistant Pastor are not against the use of deadly force, but it had to be the last resort.

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Oh, I concur. My post was in response to a hypothetical whereby someone is coming with a murderous intent.

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One UPCI pastor I know told me his church insurance company insists they have at least one armed individual one site during services.

Anyone else heard of such a thing?

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You don't have to say which church, but what area are they in? I could maybe see recommending it, but insisting upon it? That's very odd indeed.

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Lower premiums maybe

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Yes, lower premiums are why they insisted.

But I still had not heard that before.

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Also, they are in my state--Wisconsin.

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Well, if that leads to lower premiums, I think we need to check into that. As many of us who have CCH permits, I'd say our premiums should be mighty low indeed. :heeheehee

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I could see REQUIRING an armed person as opening the door to lots of liability on the part of the ins. co.

Also, designating one or more persons as armed security might run afoul of licensing requirements for security guards?

Hey, check this out:

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https://distributedsecurity.com/star...d-schools.html

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

Kinda scary thought, huh?

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

Certainly shouldn't be the first resort, unless bullets are flying and it has now become the only option.

Where I work we have an active shooter training class. The philosophy is Run, Hide, Fight. If at all possible, everyone should remove themselves from the location of the shooter. If unable to entirely remove one's self from the location of the shooter, one should seek to hide (ALWAYS turn cell phone off or turn down ringtone to silent). Only when one has exhausted all attempts to remove one's self from the location of the shooter, or has failed to find sufficient hiding, that is when one is expected to take a stand. And in this situation numbers are encouraged. It is more likely that more than one individual taking a stand against a shooter will neutralize him.

Of course the training is assuming that all involved are unarmed. I wonder what the official line would be if those with CCW were considered.

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I have given thought to what could be used as a weapon in this situation, I would grab the fire extinguisher that is outside my cube area and blast the shooter with that, hopefully others will help and take him down while he is being blasted. If further action is needed, I have an Xacto knife I can use on him.

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Why is that a scary thought?

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That church insurance has gotten to a place where having firearms present during church services is a savings consideration.

It's scary we've come to such a place.

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Wow. I would think insurance rates would be more with armed people on site, due to liability. What happens if this lone gunman shoots a visitor?

Saddleback had a ministers conference and one session was dealing with legal issues. There was a story told by the legal representative of a church who was sued because someone was prayed for in a prayer line, fell out and hit their head on a chair.

Liability is something to consider when churches allow concealed weapons.

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I have to agree. Years ago we had a bat fly into our Sunday night service and flew all over. It caused an absolute meltdown--of men and women. One of the brothers stood on a back pew, smacked it down, and took it outside. I can only imagine how crazy a room full of Pentecostals would be if a shooter was in their service. Then add to that any (or all) who may be carrying shooting back. I don't know if that would be safer or not.

So, like you said, I also wondered how an insurance company would see that as a good thing. Maybe if the church had trained ushers that were in place for such a problem. But, again, I do not think I'd feel real safe with some of the ushers I've known--training or not.

But the pastor I spoke told me he had armed people (usually more than one) in every service, and that was something his insurance preferred.

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

Guns in Church?

http://66.media.tumblr.com/724a3a587...txjo2_1280.gif

Re: Concealed Carry in Church
 

Bro, you never told me that Sean visited your church?